Hi-
We (middle aged couple) are looking to spend 2 weeks traveling through Switzerland, Austria and Germany (flying out of Munich) by train and/or bus and are thinking about the following itinerary. We like scenic beauty, history, museums (history, etc, more than art) and a mix of urban and countryside. We would also like to incorporate some music (symphony or opera) in Salzburg or Vienna. Also, we have some mobility issues - can only walk for about 2 hours a day and not strenuously. Is this too much time in Austria and not enough in southern Germany? We know that we are not doing Switzerland justice but are mostly interested in the scenic train rides there.
Any suggestions on timing, hotels, activities, etc. would be welcome!

Day 1
Train from Paris to Montreux
Overnight - Montreux
Day 2
Golden Pass scenic train through Zweisimmen, Interlaken to Luzerne
Overnight - Luzerne
Day 3
Morning train to Zurich
Afternoon exploring the city
Evening scenic train to Innsbruck
Overnight – Innsbruck
Day 4
Innsbruck
Overnight – Innsbruck
Day 5
Afternoon train to Salzburg
Overnight – Salzburg
Day 6
Salzburg
Overnight – Salzburg
Day 7
Afternoon train to Vienna
Overnight – Vienna
Day 8
Vienna
Overnight – Vienna
Day 9
Day trip from Vienna
Overnight – Vienna
Day 10
Morning train to Munich
Overnight – Munich
Day 11
Munich
Overnight – Munich
Day 12
Train to Rothenburg-ob-der-Tauber
Overnight - Rothenburg-ob-der-Tauber
Day 13
Explore Rothenburg-ob-der-Tauber
Evening train to Munich airport hotel
Day 14
Depart Munich

honestly I think it's an overly ambitious itinerary for people with limited walking capabilities. heck I'd be exhausted following this plan, and I'm in good shape. I think you might want to consider eliminating at least a couple of the stops, in order to spend more time in each place, and mimimize the amount of moving around you're doing.

9 cities in 14 days is a fairly grueling pace imho.

oops 10 cities actually depending if you count Paris at the start.

Do you have to leave from Munich?

I'd find it more logical to go east from Montreux to Vienna, and not having to backtrack to Munich.

I'd add one night in Luzern, and take one off in Innsbruck (or is there a special reason for spending 2 nights there)

From Innsbruck you can take scenic train ride via Mittenwald and Garmisch to Munich.
From Munich continue east to Salzburg and eventually Vienna.
Depart from Vienna.

Rothenburg ob der Tauber is the odd item in your itinerary. It's not THAT great that it would justify to stay in Munich twice just to squeeze in a trip to Rothenburg.
Yet, if it's a MUST and if departing from Munich is another must, I'd rather go straight from Vienna to Rothenburg, and add the whole days in Munich at the end.
Unless you have a very early morning flight, there is no real necessity to stay near the airport.

Thank you both for your quick replies. We are spending a week with friends in Paris at the front end of this trip and already have booked our flight out of Munich. Rothenburg looked interesting to me but we are not set on it. I do like to get out of the city a bit if possible - any ideas on day trips that are easily accessible by train but don't require an overnight using some of the cities on my itinerary as bases? If choosing between Salzburg and Vienna, which would you suggest? Also, do you know of a way to get to (from Paris) and through Switzerland scenically without spending more than one night?
Thanks again!

I'm still a bit irritated why you wish to speed thru Switzerland and spend more time in Austria. Not that Austria would be somehow "inferior", but what is your motivation or what do you expect Innsbruck to be that Luzern isn't?

Salzburg and Vienna is apples and oranges.
One is a "quaint" town with a nice old town, fortress, cathedral, and a small castle nearby. The other is the capital with a rich imperial history, more sights and museums than you can see in 3 days. Also more other cultural events (opera, music, etc.)

Just trying to find a good balance between seeing the region and not be exhausted as suze suggests we would be if we tried to do our original itinerary. That's why I am asking for people's opinions here on the forum - because I've never been to Innsbruck or Luzern to know what to expect. Since this is our first time to the area perhaps Vienna would be a better choice if we had to choose between it and Salzburg? Or maybe cut Innsbruck out and see both Salzburg and Vienna?

I would choose Vienna over Salzburg, for the ridiculous reason my parents have been to both and said I've really like Vienna. Salzburg was nice but that if I could only pick one definitely Vienna.

Personally I would spend more time in Switzerland (not less or trying to rush thru). I LOVE the Lac Leman ("Lake Geneva") area between Geneva and out towards and past Montreux. I've spent 2-weeks only just staying there on several occasions (have friends who live there). No shortage of incredibly gorgeous scenery, tram & train rides, boats on the lake, etc. I'd skip Zurich.

Hi Ima

>do you know of a way to get to (from Paris) and through Switzerland scenically without spending more than one night?<

There is a direct train that from Paris Est to Vienna via Salzburg that takes all day. See www.bahn.de.

You could break your trip in Zurich or get off at Innsbruck.

Also take a look at Paris/Vienna via Bern.

Hope this helps.

Maybe others here can give you positive feedback on Innsbruck, but I don't like it. I have been twice and do not intend to return. To me it is not as picturesque as I thought. It could be that I didn't go to the right places.

Innsbruck has a quaint old town and pretty palace but can easily be seen in a day. IMHO either Salzburg or Lucerne - and definitely Vienna deserve much more time.

Overall, this is way too busy to me for people with limited mobility. I would spend at least 2 nights in each place to avoid so much toing and froing (taking a lot of energy to accomplish little).

marking for later comment

Hi Ima1016,

I also think that you are trying to do too much in too little time. Remember that every time you switch bases, you lose half a day of vacation time with the boring chores of packing up and checking out, then checking in and unpacking. If you have two nights in each place, that means only one full day there, and that's only enough time to see one or two major sights. For me, the best part of a trip is not rushing around to see things but slowing down and lingering at a cafe where I can watch how life goes on there.

Also, you don't have any time to go up to see the mountains in Switzerland -- you are just moving through on the train. As wonderful as the views are from the train, they are hundreds of times better from a mountain trail with the wind in your hair and the sun on your face, etc!

You don't have to be a hiker or climber to access the Swiss peaks either -- just hop a cable car and sit at the mountaintop restaurant for an hour or two. You may want to go 100 or 200 meters down the trail, just to see what's around the corner. It may take you more than one full day to explore a town and get to a peak and really soak up the experience.

With about 14 days on the ground, I would have no more than four or five destinations --

s

Bookmarking...I appreciate your rail research!

I also think you are moving too much.

Having been to both Vienna (3x) and Salzburg (5x for a total of 3 months and one more booked this December), I much prefer Salzburg to Vienna. They are very different though and it really depends on the experience you are looking for. We go to Austria for the gorgeous scenery and smaller towns and cities so while Vienna has much to offer in terms of cultural activities, it just is not one of our favorite cities in Europe.

Salzburg is also an excellent base for day trips to the magnificent Salzkammergut region. St. Gilgen, St. Wolfgang, Lake Koenigsee are three of the beautiful towns we have enjoyed over the past few years. Also Berchtesgaden is easily accessible from here.

I am not a big fan of the cutesy Rothenburg-ob-der-Tauber . It is really a pretty little town but IMO totally given over to tourism so if that is what you are looking for, then perhaps it will work for you. We spent a day there last year and that was enough.

From Munich you can also access many lovely areas/cities. Regensburg is an hour by train, as is Prien am Chiemses. Garmisch is 2 hours and Mittenwald 2.5. We often base in Munich and make a series of day trips as we prefer not to move around more than 4x in a two week trip.

As for Switzerland, my experience there is limited to Luzerne. Although lovely, I find Switzerland very expensive and prefer to spend my time in Germany and Austria where IME my money goes a great deal further.

If you are doing all that by train and IMO that is the way to go for your proposed itinerary and trains in all 3 countries are IMO so so great -usually with departures hourly or more everywhere then be all means consider the Eurail Select 3-Country Saverpass - a Eurailpass valid in Switzerland, Austria and Germany - it would cover all your trains in all three countries, including the Golden Pass specialty scenic train in Switzerland you have included.

Anyway for loads of great info on trains and planning a rail trip in those countries i always spotlight these info-laden sites - www.budgeteuropetravel.com; www.seat61.com; www.ricksteves.com - and for train schedules all over Europe the Wunderbar German Rail web site - www.bahn.de

While I personally love Switzerland, I'm not against kfusto's idea to skip it and stick with Germany and Austria for this trip. It is an expensive place. and it just seems a bit 'tacked on' without purpose or enough time to make it worthwhile on this original itinerary.

So I would either eliminate it, or skip something else to give it more time (i.e., at least stay in Montreux/Vevey for a few days at the start of the trip).

Yes, unless you are specifically interested in Austria, I'd spend less time there and more time in Switzerland. Public transportation in Switzerland is superb. In spite of your mobility issues, you'll be able to see almost everything from buses, trains, and boats on the lakes.

Thank you all for your advice! I think we have narrowed it down to 4 nights in Switzerland, 4-5 nights in Austria and 4-5 nights in the Munich area. We are thinking of splitting the Switzerland time between a town on Lake Geneva and somewhere near Luzerne.
Suze - since you have spent time in the Lake Geneva area, what town do you suggest? We want to do tram and train rides as well as a boat outing - remember our mobility issues so the train station would ideally be close to the hotel and other attractions. I see several recommendations for Lauterbrunnen - what is there and is it easy to get to and around?
As far as Austia goes, I think we will base in Salzburg and skip Vienna on this trip.
kfusto - are the day trips you recommend in this area accessible by train easily?
Finally, we would love to get to Neuschwanstein and other day trips from Munich - again, kfusto - are the day trips you recommend not too strenuous walking?
Thanks so much for all of your help!

I love either Vevey or Montreux. In both places the train station is central to the town. I think Vevey feels a bit more "Swiss" whle Montreux has a bit more of an international feel to it. Both have access to trains and boats. The tram called Rochers de Naye leaves from the Montreux train station and is spectacular (more so if the weather is clear). The weekly farmers markets (Vevey Tues & Sat, Montreux Fri) are another favorite thing that I do in the area. Chateau de Chillon is a fabulous old castle but that does require a bit of walking to see it.

Hotel Helvetie is on the main street in Montreux and kind of a "faded grandeur" type of place. The hotels I normally recommend in Vevey (Negotiante and Geneve) are both rooms over restaurants so I'm not sure would work for your mobility issues.
www.vevey.ch or www.montreux.ch is a great place to start