We are flying into Frankfurt and plan to take the Romantic Road (with a few side trips) to Munich. Our flight home is from Zurich, which we have seen previously, but only for a couple of days before heading south toward Milan. I am having trouble figuring out an intinerary for about a weeks worth of available time getting from Munich to Zurich. I want a good dose of mountains and small towns. Any favorite small towns in that area? I think we will rent a car, but I am open to trains. Should we make a point to go into Austria before heading toward Zurich? What would be a good base? Thanks. PJK

This question is certainly loaded. A week between Munich and Zurich, and you will have already seen the Romantic Road. Salzburg is a good side trip from Munich, and while there you really should see Berchtesgaden - in fact, spend more time in Berchtesgaden than in Salzburg. Go to Innsbrück or Garmisch-Partenkirchen. Take the Außerfernbahn from G-P through the Tirol to Reutte to Füssen. Then stop by Lindau and Friedrichshafen on the way to Zurich.

There is no reason to rent a car. All of this is accessible by train, and if you use Bayern Tickets, you will spend far less than you will with a car.

ttt

Thanks. Is there any specific reason for your suggestion to take the train instead of getting a car, other than expense? Is there anything particular to that area that makes you think taking the train might be a better option? We've rented cars, so I know the ups and downs, and in many ways, I do find the train less stressful.

Hi PJK,

I think probably the quickest route would be by Lake Constance, so you probably won't see a whole lot of Switzerland or Swiss mountains on that route.

An alternate route might be to go to Innsbruck, then follow the river down to Scoul. From Scoul, you can pop into many villages & towns: Guarda & Soglio, and even Zuoz, Zernez, & St. Moritz. However, I haven't done this route -- I just found it on the map. I have stayed in Zuoz and visited Guarda, Soglio, Zernex, & St. Moritz. Beautiful area -- do a text search here to learn more.

I also recommend using the trains. As you said, less hassle. Buy a picnic lunch, open a bottle of wine, and enjoy the trip. SO much nicer than driving.

You can get Swiss train schedules at www.rail.ch.

Have fun!

s

I'll be driving from Mindelheim, right outside of Munich, to Grindelwald, bypassing Zurich. Here's an itinerary that I think will work for me.

http://www.fodors.com/forums/threads...p;tid=34701631

Trains are fine for some people, not for others. It all depends on your travel personality and what you like to do on vacation. We usually use a mix of rail and road, depending on where we are going and when.

You say: "I want a good dose of mountains and small towns." You then get a response that says, "There is no reason to rent a car."

The answer is self-evident: Please rent a car!

For TuckH,

I really don't get your post. The car is not self-evident. In Switzerland, many mountain villages are off-limits to cars. I've travelled to Switzerland once or twice a year since 1995 and always stay in a small town or village, and only rented a car twice (regretted it both times).

Please don't rent a car!

s

Mountains and small town areas:
1. Drive to Appenzell and take the cable car up to Hoher Kasten. Spend night.
2. Drive to Sargans and visit the castle (2 hour visit)
3. Drive to Klosters, Davos, over Fluelapass to Guarda. Spend night.
4. Drive past Sent, Nauders (Italy) to Glurns (Italy)
5. Drive over Stilfserjoch, Umbrailpass back to St. Maria im Münstertal, Switzerland.
6. Go to Zernez and spend the night somewhere in the area.
7. Go to St. Moritz and drive back to Zürich via Albulapass or Julierpass.

I definately recommend a car for this route, however, with some changes, it can be done by train as well.

swandav2000 - I'm fully aware of your expertise rewitzerland; I've been a grateful consumer of your many postings here.

PJK requests info on a "route" from and to. It seems to me that, to best enjoy the glorious scenery "en route", it makes the most sense do that from a car where one can take advantage of flexibility and serendipity. PJK is driving the Romantic Road, so why not encourage them to drive through the Engadin - to fully enjoy the very sights (and picnics) you suggest?

p.s. I've no idea how that face happened to appear in my text.

The : and the S put together =

TuckH,

Didn't mean to come down as a dictator; I was actually at school when I posted, so I must have been in that mode.

But I must admit that I still don't understand why cars & serendipity seem to go together for so many Americans (I am American too). Sometimes I think Americans were raised with cars, and it's difficult for us to imagine life without them, when in fact life (and travel) is beautiful, serene, and delicious without those gas-belching devils! My point is that I've gotten to teeny tiny villages and outposts using only public transportation, so really don't understand the access or freedom some claim come only with a car. To me, "freedom" means no worries about parking, gas prices, getting lost, scratching the car, winding roads, confusing city traffic, drinking and driving, etc. Now *that's* serendipity!

I think we were suggesting the train (or at least *I* was) to help PJK maximize his/her enjoyment of the trip. If a route can be done by train with just as much convenience as by car . . . ?? I'll always default to train.

Hope we can agree to disagree -- ?

s

I can't speak for Switzerland, but I have spent about 6 weeks in southern Bavaria in the last 5 years. I have been in lots of small towns and seen lots of mountains - all by train (and an occasional bus).

I particularly like Berchtesgaden in the southeastern corner of Germany and accessible by train. It's a small town ringed with mountains, including the Watzmann, Germany's second highest, and Kehlstein, with the Eagles Nest. Königssee is a beautiful alpine lake that you can cruise on electric boats.

From Berchtesgaden, you could go to Rosenheim, then Kufstein, Innsbruck, Mittenwald to Garmisch-Partenkirchen. At Garmisch is Germany’s highest mountain, the Zugspitze, with a cog rail or cable car to the top. From Garmisch you take the Ausserfernbahn through the mountain valleys of the Tirol to Reutte, where you could spend two nights and commute by bus to Füssen. Or you can stay in the German town of Pfronten and go by bus to Füssen.

From there to Kempten, and then down to the Iller valley, my favorite part of Germany. The biggest town is the ski resort of Oberstdorf, but the valley is dotted with small towns, like Fischen, all accessible by train. If you want more mountains, you can take the bus from Oberstdorf into the Austrian Kleinwalsertal, one of the most gorgeous alpine valleys you can imagine. Good place to hike and have lunch in a village.

From there the train takes you to Bodensee, where you must see the island town of Lindau before going on to Switzerland.

The entire trip can be done by train. That way you can look at the mountains instead of the road. Except for the Kufstein to Mittenwald leg, it can all be done with Bayern tickets - €18 for a single person, €25 for 2 to 5 people - all day long on regional trains. You would spend almost that much for gas alone.

I like schuler's itinerary very much (although a bit much of driving and packing/unpacking). You would see a large part of the Alps and great scenery.

Well, for this route you definitely need a car.

But if I read PJK's post I think he/she is looking for a base. A small town, from where to do excursions. So, I suggest Scuol in the Engadin (or another town in the Engadin). You would not need a car for excursions. Trains and buses would take you everywhere.

The advantage of Scuol is that it also has a wonderful spa where you can relax and possibly also get over a day with rainy weather. Excursions would include Guarda, Ardez, Sent (picturesque villages), maybe Chur, definitely the Upper Engadin with the St. Moritz area (Sils), Müstair valley (convent St. Johann), Nauders and maybe Glurns ... etc.

You would not need a car for that. Take the train from Munich to Landeck and the bus from there.

>>Hope we can agree to disagree -- ?<< YES! I certainly respect your (and Larry's) m.o.

We throw our boots, extra sweaters and stuff in the back; I have my maps and guide books strewn about; we have a lunch box with the makings of the day's picnic in the back, etc. We can take a quick nap in the car or get out of the way of a sudden downpour. We seek out back roads and jump out for an imprompto hike or to savor the view. Sometimes we arrive at a destination only to be disappointed; no problem - back in the car and move on.

The rental comes to about $50/day and we get about 600km per tankful, meaning we fill up about every third or fourth day (@ about $50); I can't judge how this compares to the costs of public transportation. IMO, using a car is quite inexpensive.

To me, "freedom" means no worries about schedules, bus routes, looking for the bus stops, schlepping our belongings, etc. Now *that's* flexibility!

As for winding roads (love 'em, especially the scenic ones), confusing city traffic (agreed, get out of the car), drinking and driving (don't), etc.

A good suggestion from Ingo!

Thanks schuler! And hello! Glad to see you posting. Greets to Switzerland!

Tuck - just a comment on the costs: For 600 km you definitely need 50 l gas (or do you rent a Diesel?) and the price per litre is at the moment approx. 1.28 Euro in Germany. = 64 Euro = USD 77

However, I don't think the costs differ very much for two people travelling together.

I.

Hi Ingo:

Yes, we try to rent a diesel and yes, perhaps the price is a bit higher now, this year. And also yes, as a twosome (sometimes a threesome), car travel is less costly.

BTW, we'll be in the Engadin the 2nd week of July after spending a week in the Ticino region (staying in a ferienwohnung on the slopes of Mt Bre).