Hi All --

Would love your help, please. My husband and I will be arriving at Heathrow at 8 AM next May 18 (from our island north of Seattle) on a three week visit to Wales, parts of England, and parts of Scotland. We've been four or five times to England and many times to Scotland (where we used to lead adult study tours) but thus far only once to South Wales. I'll have many questions I'd love your good feedback on, but will break them up into several posts rather than one jumbled multi-topic one.

This one concerns our first night. We will be doing most of our trip by car this time, but are undecided whether to pick the car up at Heathrow and just head west or whether to take train or coach to our first night's stop and wait to begin our car hire the next morning. Our concern is that, though we have much experience driving in the U.K., we will likely be quite tired after a journey that for us will have begun almost 24 hours earlier. We generally don't sleep well in coach class. Thus we don't want a lot of trying driving that first day. Rather, we want to get out of the urban congestion of greater London as soon as possible. (In fact, on this whole trip we're avoiding cities as much as possible -- Cardiff, York and Edinburgh and possibly Chester will be our only city stops.) So my questions are:

(1) We've never driven west out of Heathrow. How much hassle should we expect getting out of the airport area if we choose to drive?

(2) If we do drive, is there a good, quiet but interesting stopover you'd suggest between LHR and Cardiff that's no more than 90 minutes' drive from Heathrow? (I say quiet but interesting as my husband will probably just want to take a long nap but I'll probably want to get out and start nosing about on foot as soon as we get there!)

(3) Alternatively, if we wait to pick up the car the following morning, we'd need to overnight someplace with a decent selection of car hire firms that would enable us to drop our rental three weeks later in Edinburgh without mortgaging our home. As I see it, that probably means Bristol, Bath or Cardiff itself, the latter being our first real destination. Am I off-base about that?

(4) If I'm not, what are the best public transport options from Heathrow to our first night's stopover? We strongly prefer not to have to head into London to Paddington if it can be avoided. Would consider both train and coach. Budget is definitely a factor, as we are retired college professors on a modest pension, not tycoons!

I know that's quite a string of questions, but they're all so interdependent I find I can't separate them very readily...Sorry!

Best regards and thanks --
Judith

If it were me, I would make my way to Cardiff, either by the rail link bus to Reading and high speed train from Reading to Cardiff or by National Express coach direct from Heathrow to Cardiff. The selection would be based on scheduling, trip duration and cost. I have done the bus to train connexion in reading a couple of times; it is quite easy.

That date clicked something in my head. We were planning to leave London on May 19 heading to Cardiff for a few days. I was having trouble finding hotels for those dates (19th and 20th), and discovered it's a huge Gold Cup event. Have you found your hotel yet? You may want to consider what we're doing, switching the order of our trip through Wales to end up there the following week after all the confusion and already sold out or incredibly marked up hotels.

I feel it is not that difficult to pick up a car at Heathrow and head West. At least it's a whole lot easier to pick up a car there and head out than it is to return a car there!

Just discussed this with my husband who's English & he suggested heading to Marlborough. Take the M4 straight to the Marlborough exit or, he says take the M4 to the Newbury exit & then switch to the A4 from Newbury to Marlborough to "see a bit of countryside." Rent the car at Heathrow & drive there. We stayed at the Ivy House Hotel in Marlborough which was quite decent & the town is very pleasant (nice antiquing). From there you're very close to Avebury & Stonehenge if you wanted to stop.

Other options-Windsor is quite close to Heathrow. Either drive there & spend the day seeing the castle, Eton College & the town-or you can go by bus & rent car in Windsor. Here's a bus link to Windsor.

http://www.rbwm.gov.uk/around/transp...route_link.htm

The other place we've stayed near Heathrow is the town of Marlowe-very sweet with a weir. We've stayed at the Compleat Angler but there are other hotels & inns less $$$.

Here's the link to Heathrow transportation should you decide you don't want to rent at Heathrow

http://www.london-lhr.com/transportation.html

As I understand it, the only train service from LHR is into London. Otherwise there's bus service to nearby trains (like Reading)

Having flown from LAX many times to the UK I cannot really recommend driving anyplace upon landing. The length of the flt from the west coast is so long and if you don't sleep much on a plane it is really dangerous to get behind the wheel. I'd stay over at an airport hotel and start out the next a.m.

If you must drive perhaps Salisbury is a good place to stop. It's a nice town, quite a few hotels, etc. and about 1.25 hr from Heathrow if I remember correctly. Other then that I'd go no further then Windsor ... remember tho, there is a lot of traffic in Windsor most days.

The problem with jetlag is that it creeps up on you and you can be a little "off" and not really realize it. Not good to drive that way!!

Windsor would be a great first stop - but you may have already been there on a previous trip.

If not Windsor, then I'd stop in one of the little villages around Marlborough (Mildenhall, Avebury, Winterbourne Monkton, or one of the others). There are some really great B&Bs in this area. This would be an easy drive from LHR and a really quick jump back on the Motorway heading to S. Wales the next day.

You could see Avebury, maybe drive over to Devizes or Lacock and basically just chill until you feel up to driving the next day.

Patrick is correct.

The FA Cup Final will be played at the Millenium Stadium in Cardiff on the 22nd of May.. It's a great day for English Football so it draws tons of football supporters into Cardiff.

Hotels will be hard to get and there will be a spirited, carnival like atmosphere in the city during the weekend. Unless you are a football fan, I would head somewhere else for that particular weekend.

Have a great trip!

It is quite easy to head West toward Cardiff from Heathrow. It is pretty much a straight shot with relatively little traffic or confusion. You could easily stop at Bath for the first night. Very interesting town with Roman baths and wonderful architecture. Don't miss the great little towns along the Pembrokeshire coast like Tenby, Amroth, Saundersfoot, Pembroke, etc

We took the car out of Heathrow and drove west for about an hour to Salisbury where we stayed at a TravelInn. It was comfortable enough. From there, we visited Salisbury, Stonehenge, and Avebury.

Echoing or perhaps amplifying Lori's response, I think it is bordering on irresponsibility to recommend to happy wanderer and her husband that they drive any distance (or even at all), knowing that they will have just completed a long flight from the US west coast, do not sleep well on planes and are no longer young.

[I thought this posted successfully a few minutes ago, but I don't see it. If it's a duplicate, I apologize.]

Gosh, so many helpful replies so quickly. Bless you all!

Ron, your suggestion re: a Reading transfer is quite helpful and I'll definitely follow it up. Is it relatively easy and quick to get to Reading rail station from LHR?

Patrick, it was an archived post from you that first alerted me to the cup finals, so I owe you a great debt for that. What if we hadn't figured that out till much, much later??? I hate to think what havoc that would have played.... I'd thought about flip-flopping North with South Wales as you did, but since our destination from Wales is all northward, it would entail a lot of doubling back. I haven't entirely ruled it out, though. In any case, your warning is probably worth topping off from now till May to head off other unwary souls. Many, many thanks.

Mclaurie, I think you may have read my mind. We love Avebury and were thinking that might be a good driving destination. It's one place I could cheerfully visit several times, especially in the evening or early morning. We used to enjoy Stonehenge many years ago, but it got to seem so relentlessly marketed and also unkempt and kind of tacky outside the barricaded, magnificent ruin itself -- don't know if we're just obnoxiously jaded or it really did go downhill. Anyway, we both love megalithic sites (Avebury, Callanish, others in Scotland, etc.) but have been thinking we won't return to Stonehenge till the ever-delayed improvements there are actually carried out -- which might be shortly after the day hell freezes over. Do you think we're just cranky or off-base about that? Windsor is a great suggestion, but we've been several times (on our own and showing my mom, our kids, friends, etc.) around. Marlowe I don't know at all, so will definitely look into that.

Lori, "The problem with jetlag is that it creeps up on you and you can be a little 'off' and not really realize it. Not good to drive that way!!" -- precisely my thinking. The complicating factor for us is that wherever we pick up a car, it has to be returnable in Edinburgh without paying a king's ransom for the one way dropoff. That's why we might need to just rent it from LHR. But all things being equal, I'd rather just sit back and enjoy the fine countryside while someone else drives us! Salisbury and the West Country beyond is probably my favorite part of England and even after four or five visits, I'd always gladly return. But I wasn't sure how long and daunting that drive might be. We've usually done it by train in the past, then picked up and dropped off a car in Salisbury. Anyone else know if Lori's 1.25 hr driving estimate is right on?

Janis, as already noted I think Avebury is one good suggestion. May I say here that you deserve sainthood for all the helpful responses you've posted on this board? So far I've archived 50+ pages (in 8.5 font, single spaced) of the best of the postings here, and yours take the cake for consistent good sense and impressive knowledge. I did a lot of postings as the Asia Travel board leader for prodigy.com for several years in the early stages of the net, and I know how much time it can take. I really thank you and so many others for your generosity.

AAFrequentFlyer, I WISH you'd said I was all wet, but it's actually painfully helpful to have you confirm my worst fears. I think it might be a fun experience to actually attend a football match at the new Millenium Stadium, but I think we'd have a snowball's chance in hell of getting affordable (if any) tickets -- and we've had enough experiences being stuck on trains and ferries with rowdy football fans to know that we sure don't want to be sucked into it all again!

BoulderCO, I appreciate the confidence-builder. I'd sure like to get straight to Cardiff so as to have more time in Wales. It's just a matter of weighing fatigue and prudence. I guess we could always head west toward Cardiff and just see how tired we really are, erring on the side of safety and stopping soon if we feel we're a menace to others. We had thought about asking our doctor for Ambien to make sure we get some sleep on the plane, but a number of things I've read discourage that idea -- DVT (a.k.a. Coach class syndrome or deep-vein thrombosis) among others.

Gb, I didn't realize there was a Travel Inn in Salisbury. That's a helpful tip. I reckon we could do without atmospheric lodgings the first night if we needed to. What I don't know yet is what national firms do car hire in both Salisbury and Edinburgh. Anyone know?

Ron, your point is very well taken. I should perhaps clarify that although no longer young, we're not quite doddering yet. I turned 60 this past week and my husband is 62. We are retired (college faculty) a bit early by American standards due to my congenital heart disability. But I think travelers of ANY age, even those experienced with driving in Britain as we are, would do well to think VERY carefully about doing it after such a long journey -- for everyone else's sake if not for their own!

You guys are all super! I'm posting a second, related query separately, if you can stand it. Many thanks!

Check out Kemwell and Autoeurope for car rentals.

Judith, here is the link to the schedule for the rail link bus to Reading, http://www.firstgreatwestern.co.uk/o...l/airports.php

In Heathrow terminal 3, it is about a 200 foot walk from the exit of the customs to the ticket office and the stands for the buses departing from there (just to the left of the excess baggage office). In October, my plane arrived at 10:10, I was on the 10:57 bus and at Reading station by 11:45.

Regarding car rentals in the UK, charges for drop offs at places other than the renting location should not cost extra, if you are renting for more than 3 days and if you are using one of the national rental agencies, either directly or through brokers such as AutoEurope.

I tried to word the age comment to be non-offensive. I am the same age as your husband and am not doddering either (an 18 km walk in the Yorkshire Dales near Malham on the Sunday before I returned to Canada was not difficult). My travel to the UK is a lot easier than yours (a 20 minute drive to the airport and a 7 hour flight), but I still plan my vacations so I do not have to drive on my day of arrival.

Happy W - Of the national rental companies those in both Salisbury and Edinburgh are:
Europcar, Hertz, National and Thrifty.

Another idea might be to catch the bus from Heathrow to Bath and rent from there.

Hope this helps ...

Steve

I feel a bit of a busybody butting in since you've had so many good suggestions already, but since I live in Cardiff, I can't resist. The Cup Final is really a one-day happening; great atmosphere, no hope of a ticket, but memorable if you're around. Shouldn't be too much of a problem to get accomodation somewhere within reach apart from Friday and Saturday, especially if you book now, since no-one will know which teams are involved until a lot later. 8am arrival - hey, you don't want to hang around central England all day. Move on, train or car. Bath's a good idea - lovely place - and trains from Reading go every 30 mins or so. If you've got accommodation in Cardiff, so much the better, if not there are some nice places in Monmouthshire - pubs with rooms in pretty villages or small towns such as Abergavenny, Raglan and Chepstow (all about 40 mins by road). Best of Wales - Pembrokeshire Coast (take your walking shoes), esp. around St David's; try the Sloop at Porthgain for lunch; most of mid-Wales (Meifod area in Montgomeryshire ), the beaches and coves of the Llyn Peninsula; Caernarfon Castle; Snowdon; the road from Beddgelert to Capel Curig; the Conwy estuary and the vale of Clwyd - and a whole lot more. There, I've done my bit for the Welsh Tourist Board. Enjoy!