So what do Europeans make of Dubya?

Old Dec 20th, 2000, 11:56 PM
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Bravo, Tom & Norma! My sentiments exactly!!

Anything is better than what we have had in the White House for the past eight years. Now all we need to do is fumigate the Oval Office due to the garbage that has been inhabiting there for the past eight years, and we can start fresh with an administration that we can respect.

God Bless America!!!!!!!!!!!!
Old Dec 21st, 2000, 06:53 AM
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I finally found this information and thought it was very interesting.

States won by Gore--- 19
States won by Bush--- 29

Counties won by Gore--- 677
Counties won by Bush--- 2,434

Population of counties won by Gore--- 127 million
Population of counties won by Bush--- 143 million

Sq miles of country won by Gore--- 580,000
Sq miles of country won by Bush---2,427,000

According to Professor Joseph Olson of the Hamline University School of Law in St. Paul, MN---

Avg murder per 100,000 residents in counties won by Gore---13.2
Avg murder per 100,000 residents in counties won by Bush--- 2.1

Who do you want electing your next president?
Old Dec 21st, 2000, 07:20 AM
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Yourturn kind of missed the point, I don't really give a rat's red rear what Dubya did BEFORE he was president, I care what he does after inauguration. Dems keep worrying about why people won't forgive Billy for having sex in th oval office, just not getting the fact that few cared about that, it was the continual, psychopathic tendency to LIE that got Clinton in trouble. It was always the LIE that was the problem to me, the sex was NEVER the issue.
Old Dec 21st, 2000, 07:34 AM
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Glad this thread took off!

As an American in London, my Britisher friends are shocked that Dubya doesn't be able to think or speak on the fly... the Clinton chat was widely commented-upon here. 'He's had enough time to catch up on his sleep by now, surely!' seemed to be a major aside. (BTW thanks Thyra.)

Taking it back to travel: all my fellow American travelers need to be up-to-date on the issues surrounding the election - 'cause it's the only thing people are going to want to discuss with you in Europe . . . !

BTW the weather here is cold, grey and totally Dickensian - and I don't have a window to report the view, I'm in a massive open plan office!

Have a great festive week y'all
: ) Tracy
Old Dec 21st, 2000, 10:45 AM
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The one statistic that you forgot was the popular vote. How convenient. I know your next comment would be "an election is not won on popular vote." Correct and it is not won on small, barren counties in the South and Midwest. Again, just as the popular vote means nothing, either does your information. Bush won the electoral vote (by Supreme Court Decision) and that is all that counts. And personally, I want all Americans to elect the president not just poeple who think and live like me. Your comment about "who do you want electing your next president" reeks with arrogance, ignorance and something else, which I will not bring up or participate in this forum.

Old Dec 21st, 2000, 05:09 PM
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Mr Average

I think you have hit the nail on the head - the point is I expect my leaders to be at least as smart or preferably considerably smarter than me!...
Mr W is not from what I have seen... although I am a brit I have been to at least 40 odd US states and was in the states for the debates - anyone who thinks the solution to the middle east problem is a missile shield should not be let off their ranch! (he did say this...)

As the most powerful man on earth the US president should have his finger on the world's pulse...

I guess it would help if he had found time during his 50 odd years to leave the states - sorry Canada & Mexico don't count!
Old Dec 21st, 2000, 06:04 PM
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This election was a good civics lesson for all of us - just think, if just 5000 more people had voted in Florida (all for one candidate or the other), there never would have been an issue. Instead, a vast number of Americans couldn't be bothered to get out and vote - hmmm...who was it that said "A people get the government they deserve"?

The United States has survived very well through terrible presidents, several assissinations, innumerable wars, stupid mistakes, scandals of all sorts, and economic rollercoasters. In the end, we go to work, raise our families, attend religious services, give our time and money to charities, and try to keep our senses of humor.

I assume George W. Bush will choose advisors, aides and a Cabinet that will help him make wise decisions. If he screws up, well, he'll learn something (I'm not worried he'll start a nuclear war; even our dimmest presidents didn't do THAT).
And the next time I go into the voting booth, I'm bringing my own pointy stick.
Old Dec 21st, 2000, 07:08 PM
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Seems to me you have a real problem. You want your leaders to be smarter than you, wow, then how do you explain Tony Blair. One of you is in deep trouble intellectually, if not both of you!

Complain about the US, once you've nmanaged to solve your own leadership problems. And FYI, this American has travelled in 21 foriegn countries, and I'll say it again...George Bush was far better than the alternative in the US, or any European leader you care to name.

I'd suggest you just drink your tea and leave the heavy lifting to the Republicams and conservatives...we'll keep the peace, defend the freedoms and keep the economy rolling, whilst (good Brit word) you come along for the ride!
Old Dec 22nd, 2000, 04:21 AM
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Jumping to BritBoy's defence/defense!!!

Have you ever seen Prime Minister's Question Time in the Commons (on C-SPAN)? Blair certainly can debate with the best of 'em. Even fetus-boy Hague, the Tory leader, did his equivalent of Junior Statesmen of America.

Clinton and Gore would be fine in the heat of heckling debate.

GWB would be torn limb from limb. No *way* he's got the statesmanship skills.

Just an observation. (Wouldn't it be great to actually see?!) And well-put, Elvira, I'm totally down with your POV on this one . . .
Old Dec 22nd, 2000, 09:15 AM
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Tom Tom Tom THANK YOU soooo much for, justifying all the negative feelings Europeans have about American's in one finely crafted response.....GWB couldn't have done it better.... do we wonder why they hate us?
Old Dec 22nd, 2000, 09:22 AM
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Kav = Brit Girl

I dont hate you.
I dont hate anyone because of where they are from or what race they are.

I dislike some americans. I dislike some brits too. Chances are if I would find a few people I disliked in any place I travelled to.

But a LOT more whom I liked and even more who I never met and cannot judge.

This is a very interesting thread. Little to do with what Europeans think and more about Americans defending their own political viewpoints, but interesting anyway...
Old Dec 22nd, 2000, 04:21 PM
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Thank you buyer! I rest my case - and Tom I hope we don't all have to reap what you have sown! But I'm sure we will survive with all you marvellous Republicans to protect us!
Old Dec 22nd, 2000, 11:40 PM
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Who gives a crap what Europeans think? Since when does their opinion on our leaders matter? As Tom aptly stated, let the Europeans fix their rotting economy & unemployment and then get back to us with your opinions. By the way, we still won't care what you think then either.

It's time for all you hate-mongering liberals to stop your snivelling and accept it. If you can't accept it, then it's going to be a very rough 8 years for you indeed.
Old Dec 23rd, 2000, 02:29 PM
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Rotting economies and unemployment??, love to know which (western) European countries you meam, I haven't come across them yet! Try getting the facts correct before coming out with glib answers. I think you will find a number of western European countries have an economy in a better state than yours.
Old Dec 23rd, 2000, 04:21 PM
Independent Thinker
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I thought this was a travel forum?? It seems like there are too many people out there with too much time on their hands.
Old Dec 23rd, 2000, 04:26 PM
Al Godon
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Well, it all depends on which European you talk to. Most of the sophisticates I have had much interchange with lament his lack of international experience.
They also regard him as poorly educated mainly because like many of us, he speaks no language fluently other than English.

One friend of mine who was a broacast journalism major in the States referred to his appearances as Cueing in the Clueless.
Roll the cameras and lets hope he can read the teleprompter like they wrote it.
Old Dec 23rd, 2000, 05:32 PM
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Al I'm certain that Bush is fluent in Spanish, it's been occasionally mentioned on the tv and newspapers. Sorry to say, but probably the last Presidents with any international experience was Bush running the CIA and Nixon as a VP in the 50's. Clinton, Reagan, Carter were Governors and Ford, Johnson and Kennedy were Senators. But Eisenhower at least did tour Europe.

Old Dec 23rd, 2000, 05:45 PM
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Silly me - I thought you were aware of the high unemployment numbers in Europe. Read a newspaper or two and then get back to me with your opinion. (as if I care).

Old Dec 24th, 2000, 07:50 AM
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If you really don't care then stop trying to get the last word in.
Old Dec 24th, 2000, 08:13 AM
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Please read the classic work of Ortega y Gasset called REVOLT OF THE MASSES (circa 1928). In a democracy, the mediocre masses want political leaders much like themselves. In Bill Clinton, we had a pretty bright mind combined with a man whose moral dimensions catered to the worst instincts of the American mediocre majority. In George W. Bush, we have the most mediocre presidential mind since Warren Harding. Morally, he's a reformed frat boy (think of Otter in Animal House) who decided to grow up at 40. He might be a good fit for the country right now. As for what the Europeans think, who cares? They conform to Ortega y Gasset's thesis better than us Americans. Their cradle-to-grave Mommy state is a victory of the cult of mediocrity.

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