So what do Europeans make of Dubya?

Old Dec 19th, 2000, 10:08 PM
Paul J
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Jeff: After 70+ responses at least there is one that makes some sense....Paul J
Old Dec 20th, 2000, 05:44 AM
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Why do you keep saying Gore flunked out of divinity school? He left. What evidence do you have that he received failing grades?
Old Dec 20th, 2000, 06:19 AM
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First, let me say that I would have felt much better about Gore if he hadn't spent the last 8 years of his life with Clinton. He, like Liberman, did a 180 on their political views to gain public office.

Everyone knows, including Harvard, that Gore is not the brightest light in a strand of Christmas lights!!

I still remember Clinton's first term, the Clintons & Gores made a trip to Mount Vernon. They were taken on a tour and when they entered one room Mr. Gore observed several busts in the room, (Clinton did too but Hillary caught him in the ribs!), then he asked WHO THEY WERE!!!! The tour guide, after regaining her composure said, George Washington & Thomas Jefferson!!!

I do believe that Florida has positions in chad picking available!

Oh, and as far as Clinton and the Middle East, Clinton has NEVER done anything for this country that didn't accomodate his (or Hillary's) needs first.
Old Dec 20th, 2000, 07:00 AM
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The 5000 felons that voted in Fla. are former Regan staff members/supporters. They are living off the S&L buyouts just like members of the Bush family.
Old Dec 20th, 2000, 07:23 AM
Hans H
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My impression of the European (or at least the German) point of view was that most people didn't really care. If asked to give an opinion, most would have preferred Gore to Bush but without really liking Gore or really detesting Bush. None of the candidates made a very convincing impression during the campaign and they seemed to avoid clear statements. Since they avoided controversial subjects and ignored foreign policy, there was little to distinguish them from each other. The differences were about internal subjects and Germans don't care about most of the US internal policy.
There are a few subjects upon which the USA and Germany disagree (for example the measures against global warming and the missile defense system) and Gore seems to be closer to the German point of view. But on the other hand, he doesn't seem to be close enough to act or at least clearly voice his opinion and thus it doesn't really matter what he privately thinks. Otherwise, most Germans don't see a need for change in the US policy and would have preferred Gore as someone who would probably continue the current course. And last but not least, Germans already knew Gore and so they felt more comfortable with him than with someone new.
There exists some real dislike about the death penalty and Bush's consequent support of this punishment. That's probably the main point of criticism by most Germans. On the other hand, Bush Sr. and many people of the new government played a very important role during the German reunification and they supported Germany to a greater extend than any other ally. That's certainly something which makes Germany feel comfortable with the Bush Jr. administration.

In my opinion, nobody, who makes it to President, can be dumb. Bush might not have a wide area of knowledge but it might as well be that he hasn't learned to appear informed about a wide area of subjects. In my experience, very few politicians (or reporters) have a good understanding of difficult subjects, as I always find out if I read or hear something from a field I know much about. I guess that they are in fact as uninformed about most other subjects but appear competent to me since I lack the knowledge to evaluate their statements.
If Bush has the sense and ability to pick himself good advisors, listen to their opinion and sell this policy to the public even if he has to overcome obstacles, it might be exactly what is needed to make him a good president.
Old Dec 20th, 2000, 07:34 AM
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Sue: the Economist issue you want is Dec. 16-22. By the way, be sure to read Thomas Friedman's article in the New York Times (and others newspapers) about the appointment of Gen. Colin Powell. Makes fascinating reading.
Old Dec 20th, 2000, 07:49 AM
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More on the Orlando Sentinal recount.

Apparently, this county has optical scanning ballots. They found 130 Gore votes in which the person colored the bubble for Gore, then colored the bubble for write-in and wrote "Gore". Obviously, these votes would have been picked up in a manual recount as clear votes for Gore.

As for Bush being dumb, no one is saying the man can't add or something. I'm saying the man lacks a fundamental intellectual interest in foreign policy and many important areas of domestic policy. He isn't able to focus (or chooses not to focus) on things that are difficult to grasp. I'm not too interested in foreign policy, either, but I can tell you that I would work hard to learn it in a hurry if I needed to. That's where Bush is lacking -- the drive and ambition to work hard to learn things he ought to know.

Put it this way -- if Bush were your heart surgeon, would you hop off the table?
Old Dec 20th, 2000, 08:27 AM
Hans H
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But isn't the important question: Would you hop off the table if Bush was the head of administration of the hospital?
Old Dec 20th, 2000, 08:41 AM
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Good point. Maybe I wouldn't hop off of the table, but I sure as heck wouldn't buy stock in the hospital. On the other hand, I'd love to work at the hospital because the Boss wouldn't be watching me too closely or questioning my decisions. I could get away with murder!
Old Dec 20th, 2000, 08:46 AM
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I read the following story in a paper the other day (can't remember which) I also cannot remember precise details but this is the general idea -:

You are a photographer with say the National Geographic and are going to photograph the chaos caused by flash floods in a certain part of the country. As you stand at the waters edge you see George W Bush hanging on to the branch of a tree . It is about to snap and Bush is seconds from being swept away. You can put down your camera and save his life, or take the best photo of your career. The question is ...."Which lens do you use?"

I have misgivings about a reformed alcoholic about to take up one of the most important and stressful jobs in the world. I hope he has the character and resolve for it, he seems to have a supportive wife which is good.
People appear to have voted for personalty rather than substance Unfortunately Al Gore does not win the charisma vote, he seems very intelligent but has no personality (infront of a camera anyway). He did though seem to know what he was talking about and was able to discuss policy in detail. Bush does not have a clue on many issues, his grasp of foreign affairs would be funny if not so potentially damaging and embarrasing to the US. Thank goodness he seems to be building a strong team around him. How he is president elect without winning the popular vote though is really unfortunate.
Old Dec 20th, 2000, 09:31 AM
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As a native born American, I seem to be missing something here. I was under the impression that U.S. presidents appointed Supreme Court justices, not that Supreme Court justices appointed presidents. Silly me, I voted for Gore in the hope he would appoint the next few Supreme Court justices for obvious reasons!
Old Dec 20th, 2000, 11:24 AM
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How American, once again letting the press set the tone. If Dubya isn't too good at off the cuff questions, or muffs lines from time to time, who the hell cares? Would you prefer another "Slick Willie," who looks good and sounds good and poses such interesting, super-smart questions like, "It depends on what your definition of the word, "is," is?"

Now, that was REAL smart. How about avoiding the armed forces then pulling that sweet, little shenanigan of giving the "victors", the government of Vietnam, TWO HUNDRED MILLION DOLLARS while no one's looking? (By the by, this is not a transitional government, or a "new" government. Some of those people were hand picked by Uncle Ho himself.)

(I'm curious, did they ask us for that money or did Billy just give it to them out of the kindess of OUR hears? If they did ask, why didn't they ask China instead, after all, they bankrolled the Viet Cong in the first place).

Anyway, a man's verbal skills, in the final analysis, don't mean much of anything. Some of the worlds brightest men, Einstein, Edison, and scads of others were hardly glib.

Certainly not comparing Dubya with that company, but any man who can finish out his higher education then manage to learn to fly an F-16 can't be nearly as dumb as the Liberal Press in America wants the citizens to believe. I wonder how you're average "smart guy" would do behind the console of a fighter jet?

All that said, I personally couldn't stand smirky Dubya or lacky Al, but we're stuck with him and should learn to think for ourselves and make our own EDUCATED assesments without CBS, NBC, ABC, CNN et al. deciding for us. Always remember the unspoken credo of American Journalism: "Get the story first, we'll worry about facts later."

After all, these are the same people who by 7 pm CST on election day told the world that Al Gore had won Florida handily.
Old Dec 20th, 2000, 01:56 PM
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Hey Buzz-----Just think, that $2M that was sent to Vietnam to rebuild a relationship in a place in the world where communism still lives and it can do some good. We should have kept that money here because that is close to what we spent to find out if Clinton had sex. We are going to need that $$ when all the Dubya "wild year" tapes, pictures and "extras" start to submerge. Rememeber, where there is COKE, there are coke-whores---ALWAYS. Where was Ms. Dubya during the wild years. Yea, that $200M would have come in handy. Maybe we can dig up Mr. Starr and see if he has the same drive he had when going after Clinton---I doubt it.
Old Dec 20th, 2000, 02:01 PM
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Such ugliness, mean spiritedness & downright hatefulness coming from the Left. So typical. Yes, the wonderful Left, trumpeters of "tolerance" yet are the first to call Bush names, say he's stupid, etc. etc. Such hypocrites. Hey, I have an idea! Maybe you all can leave the country just like Alec Baldwin and the other phony limousine libs in Hollywood. I'll be the first to pack your bags.
Old Dec 20th, 2000, 02:07 PM
Posts: n/a I beg of you Fodorites, people who came to this message board to find something of interest to TRAVEL..... I like to visit here each day and dream about latte's in Paris and Irish countryside.... Tracy asked a legitmate question for our European visitors... but it's disintigrated into an extention of mean spiritedness and name calling over an election which, weather we like it or not is finally OVER. I appreciate that we all have differences of opinions.. but as Larry Flynt , so eloquently says...Freedom of speech is not for the thought you love, it is for the thought you hate.... Please continue the debate and enjoy your freedom to do so.. but maybe a "travel" forum is not quite the appropriate venue for this discussion.
Old Dec 20th, 2000, 04:46 PM
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Al--Thanks a lot. I send my poor husband all over town looking for it, but we still have Dec. 9-15 issues out. Glad to know we will be able to find it. Thanks for the NY Times tip too.
Old Dec 20th, 2000, 05:41 PM
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Thyra - very well spoken - amen
Old Dec 20th, 2000, 06:50 PM
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I'll make this real easy...who cares how the European community views our new President!

We elected him, I voted for him, and quite frankly I'd rather have him than the alternative or any European leader anyone on this board can name. So here's the deal...go back to doing what y'all do well, living in lands with beautiful castles, great history and wonderful cultures and leave running the US to the US citizens.

We'll continue to protect the world from the bad guys, and be the engine that drives the economy because we can, and for the most part we do a great job!
Old Dec 20th, 2000, 07:49 PM
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Anyone know of a good cheap Hotel in the 6th in Paris. Thanks
Old Dec 20th, 2000, 09:19 PM
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I am an American, and I voted for George W. Bush and am glad! Do not judge him (or anyone else) because they cannot speak in public as well as some. Clinton was an excellent speaker, yet an embarrasment to our country. Bush will do just fine!

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