Snarky replies
Jan 3rd, 2012, 01:09 PM
#41
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My three cents:
1. As has been pointed out, the perception of snarkiness is geographical. A person from the U.S. midwest would see a given comment as snarky-verging-on-rude while a person from NYC or London would see it as perfectly cheerful bantering style.
2. Communication via any electronic medium has a higher rate of misunderstandings -- such has ``reading'' snark when none was intended -- because facial expressions and tone-of-voice are missing. Emoticons help, but the medium is by no means perfect. A perfectly mild comment (such as ``Why would you want to do that?'') can come across as snarky. Maybe we should try to give each other the benefit of the doubt.
3. Newbies should not be expected to know anything: that `please' and `thank you' are expected (I don't agree that they are); that this question has been asked before; that they need to give details about budget, numbers and ages of participants; that their plan won't work. I think it is best to ignore their mistakes and simply answer the question as best as possible. They'll figure it out soon enough.
Best wishes for a happy and peaceful new year.
1. As has been pointed out, the perception of snarkiness is geographical. A person from the U.S. midwest would see a given comment as snarky-verging-on-rude while a person from NYC or London would see it as perfectly cheerful bantering style.
2. Communication via any electronic medium has a higher rate of misunderstandings -- such has ``reading'' snark when none was intended -- because facial expressions and tone-of-voice are missing. Emoticons help, but the medium is by no means perfect. A perfectly mild comment (such as ``Why would you want to do that?'') can come across as snarky. Maybe we should try to give each other the benefit of the doubt.
3. Newbies should not be expected to know anything: that `please' and `thank you' are expected (I don't agree that they are); that this question has been asked before; that they need to give details about budget, numbers and ages of participants; that their plan won't work. I think it is best to ignore their mistakes and simply answer the question as best as possible. They'll figure it out soon enough.
Best wishes for a happy and peaceful new year.
Jan 3rd, 2012, 02:08 PM
#42
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Easytraverler:" We have that choice that Mrs. Franklin didn't have." You said it yourself...we do have a choice.
I have been here a long time, you have too, I've seen lots of good people leave, I see some of them on other forums, some I never see again. They had good info and I"m sorry they left, but things are always changing here and in life.
You'r right in real life it doesn't really work...but this is a computer and it can be ignored. I really believe if you ignore them it makes them more mad, but in the end who will they fight with if you just out and out don't comment on what was said. I'm not saying that what they say doesn't make me mad, but I refuse to give them the time of day.
"That's why, ever the optimist, I am hopeful that 2012 brings in more wit and charm in the travel forums and less snarkiness." ME TOO!
I have been here a long time, you have too, I've seen lots of good people leave, I see some of them on other forums, some I never see again. They had good info and I"m sorry they left, but things are always changing here and in life.
You'r right in real life it doesn't really work...but this is a computer and it can be ignored. I really believe if you ignore them it makes them more mad, but in the end who will they fight with if you just out and out don't comment on what was said. I'm not saying that what they say doesn't make me mad, but I refuse to give them the time of day.
"That's why, ever the optimist, I am hopeful that 2012 brings in more wit and charm in the travel forums and less snarkiness." ME TOO!
Jan 3rd, 2012, 04:17 PM
#43
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In real life I am much worse because people can see I am kidding and that is about 99% of the time. Here, they do not know me.
Sometimes this place reminds of a dating service for prudes. "Oh my Lord, I cannot believe you said that!!"
How many people are this serious and sensitive in real life? How do you get along in what can often be a brutal world?
Sometimes this place reminds of a dating service for prudes. "Oh my Lord, I cannot believe you said that!!"
How many people are this serious and sensitive in real life? How do you get along in what can often be a brutal world?
Jan 3rd, 2012, 04:34 PM
#44
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Some people may not realize how others react to their posts. One, who has posted a couple of times on this very thread complaining about others, comes across as pedantic and condescending, putting down advice offered by others who somehow are not as knowledgable, according to him/her. I once had the experience of being contradicted in a very superior way to my advice about choosing Bologna as a destination --- only to read a week later from this same person that Bologna is a wonderful place to visit! I think that person gets satisfaction from being superior to everyone else and will jump on pretexts to put others down.
Jan 3rd, 2012, 04:57 PM
#45
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In any enivornment-work, family, friends-there are people you love and people you cannot stand. And you naturally protect those you love and can't wait for someone you do not like to make a mistake. I am not sure why people expect these boards to be any different.
If people are different from that in real lives than maybe they should indicate a warning at the begining of their posts.
________
And yes, there are responders who do not know of whence they speak. Others who google answers and pass them off as personal experience, those with prejudices so deep that the very name of a place sets them frothing at the mouth, then there are those who visited a place once and make a career out of it. And yes, the ones who visited Paris in 1956 and think things are the same.
And it were not for some of the snide remarks, the innocent questioner would have no idea who the poseurs may be.
______
I do disagree with CAPXXX on one point. Please and thank you are what you teach a child at a very young age and not I am not sure why these boards should be an exception.
If people are different from that in real lives than maybe they should indicate a warning at the begining of their posts.
________
And yes, there are responders who do not know of whence they speak. Others who google answers and pass them off as personal experience, those with prejudices so deep that the very name of a place sets them frothing at the mouth, then there are those who visited a place once and make a career out of it. And yes, the ones who visited Paris in 1956 and think things are the same.
And it were not for some of the snide remarks, the innocent questioner would have no idea who the poseurs may be.
______
I do disagree with CAPXXX on one point. Please and thank you are what you teach a child at a very young age and not I am not sure why these boards should be an exception.
Jan 3rd, 2012, 04:59 PM
#46
My very first venture into the lounge was to comment on a person who lets her house cats run wild in her neighborhood. I called her irresponsible. She is a regular member of the lounge's sewing circle so I got my a$$ handed to me. The fur really flew but since then I do not ingage with anyone in a pizzing match. You can not graft new ideas onto a closed mind.
Jan 3rd, 2012, 05:26 PM
#47
"<i>One, who has posted a couple of times on this very thread complaining about others, comes across as pedantic and condescending, putting down advice offered by others who somehow are not as knowledgable, according to him/her.</i>" . . . and AFAIK is the only one posting on this thread who has ever been given a Fodors 'timeout' for personal attacks and being . . . <i>snarky</i>
sort of pot calling kettle . . .
sort of pot calling kettle . . .
Jan 3rd, 2012, 06:45 PM
#48
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janisj has it right.
There are lots of pots calling kettles in this post. One in particular, who got banned for being totally obnoxious, but also a close second runner-up, who was snarky in the extreme himself when he didn't get the answers he wanted and now complains about "gods."
And yes, I can be pegged as snarky by some I'm sure, but I sure don't post BS about stuff I don't know anything about and I do have definite opinions and will give them to you. In real life as well as here. Plenty of Fodorites have met me in person and would probably agree. I don't suffer fools lightly in writing or in person. I also happen to love helping people plan trips. So shoot me if I don't couch it all in love and happiness. I have a job - this is a pastime. My job requires me to think very carefully about every word I choose to express insights and opinions; this pastime doesn't require anything other than spontaneous answers. If you don't like them or don't want to heed my advice, move on to something you find more palatable and pleasing. There's plenty of bad advice here from well-meaning and extremely pleasant people, as well as plenty of good advice from people whose "personalities" might not sit so well with you. You choose what's more important to you.
There are lots of pots calling kettles in this post. One in particular, who got banned for being totally obnoxious, but also a close second runner-up, who was snarky in the extreme himself when he didn't get the answers he wanted and now complains about "gods."
And yes, I can be pegged as snarky by some I'm sure, but I sure don't post BS about stuff I don't know anything about and I do have definite opinions and will give them to you. In real life as well as here. Plenty of Fodorites have met me in person and would probably agree. I don't suffer fools lightly in writing or in person. I also happen to love helping people plan trips. So shoot me if I don't couch it all in love and happiness. I have a job - this is a pastime. My job requires me to think very carefully about every word I choose to express insights and opinions; this pastime doesn't require anything other than spontaneous answers. If you don't like them or don't want to heed my advice, move on to something you find more palatable and pleasing. There's plenty of bad advice here from well-meaning and extremely pleasant people, as well as plenty of good advice from people whose "personalities" might not sit so well with you. You choose what's more important to you.
Jan 3rd, 2012, 07:49 PM
#50
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Personally I like the delusional ones, who think they are bearers of peace. One of the more dominant personality types on these boards are the passive/aggressives who say horrible things then act like the agrieved party.
Jan 3rd, 2012, 08:06 PM
#51
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Hmmmmmm--Snarky?--Hmmmmmm---I've never experienced this side of the forum--maybe I've been lucky--or maybe my questions are just so intelligent and relevant that they dazzle all of the naysayers---hahahahah---We must realize that a lot of people are just not very smart and it's probably not their fault. Just don't answer if you don't have something nice to say. I have ALWAYS gotten polite, helpful answers from my Fodorite advisers.
Love you guys. BMK
Love you guys. BMK
Jan 3rd, 2012, 08:23 PM
#52
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susanna: <i>I've seen lots of good people leave</i>
So have I.
It's the ones who leave involuntarily that makes me sad.
There was one really terrific poster whose posts everyone enjoyed. I learnt later that she had left Fodors Forums because of some things that had been said to her on some of her travel posts. She never posted in the Lounge, but the Lounge poison got to her in the travel forums. Good posters shouldn't be forced to leave because of snarkiness.
In another case, I watched as the clique, the "sewing circle", the lounge rats or whatever the term that is used - watched one of them keep hounding another poster, stalking that other poster, saying terrible things about that poster -for <i>years</i>. The other poster tried to ignor his tormenter, he tried to use humor, he never answered back an eye for an eye, but always tried to keep his distance, never got personal. It didn't work, nothing worked. If he ignored his tormenter on one thread, the tormenter returned to the attack on another thread. If the person who was hounded responded, then it was like a ton of bricks fell on him as the tormenter and his "pals" started a barrage of attack posts. That poster, some of whose travel posts are small classics, also no longer posts on Fodors. One of the words that kept coming to my mind in thinking of what was ongoing in the Lounge was "savage". Another word was "cruel".
It's a lot worse than the cliquishness that goes on in high school, because these are adults and should know better.
Anyhow, like I said in the previous post, the moderators in the last couple of years have done quite a job in tamping down the extreme language and the extreme attacks. I have hopes that they will continue to erase the poisonous atmosphere and that Fodors will regain some of the warmth and genuinely funny wit that used to pervade all the forums.
Yes, things change - I'm ever hopeful that the change is for the better.
So have I.
It's the ones who leave involuntarily that makes me sad.
There was one really terrific poster whose posts everyone enjoyed. I learnt later that she had left Fodors Forums because of some things that had been said to her on some of her travel posts. She never posted in the Lounge, but the Lounge poison got to her in the travel forums. Good posters shouldn't be forced to leave because of snarkiness.
In another case, I watched as the clique, the "sewing circle", the lounge rats or whatever the term that is used - watched one of them keep hounding another poster, stalking that other poster, saying terrible things about that poster -for <i>years</i>. The other poster tried to ignor his tormenter, he tried to use humor, he never answered back an eye for an eye, but always tried to keep his distance, never got personal. It didn't work, nothing worked. If he ignored his tormenter on one thread, the tormenter returned to the attack on another thread. If the person who was hounded responded, then it was like a ton of bricks fell on him as the tormenter and his "pals" started a barrage of attack posts. That poster, some of whose travel posts are small classics, also no longer posts on Fodors. One of the words that kept coming to my mind in thinking of what was ongoing in the Lounge was "savage". Another word was "cruel".
It's a lot worse than the cliquishness that goes on in high school, because these are adults and should know better.
Anyhow, like I said in the previous post, the moderators in the last couple of years have done quite a job in tamping down the extreme language and the extreme attacks. I have hopes that they will continue to erase the poisonous atmosphere and that Fodors will regain some of the warmth and genuinely funny wit that used to pervade all the forums.
Yes, things change - I'm ever hopeful that the change is for the better.
Jan 3rd, 2012, 08:27 PM
#53
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Loe you too, bobby!
Just be as smart as you say you are and stay away from the Lounge.
There are a lot of really smart posters on the travel forums who stay away from the Lounge, which is the catchbasin for everything that is not travel-related.
Just be as smart as you say you are and stay away from the Lounge.
There are a lot of really smart posters on the travel forums who stay away from the Lounge, which is the catchbasin for everything that is not travel-related.
Jan 4th, 2012, 05:24 AM
#54
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Please see my response in this thread:
http://www.fodors.com/community/euro...a-429878-2.cfm
There is simply no reason to be impolite to people. If you want to sign me "goody two shoes", so be it (and b*te me.)
http://www.fodors.com/community/euro...a-429878-2.cfm
There is simply no reason to be impolite to people. If you want to sign me "goody two shoes", so be it (and b*te me.)
Jan 4th, 2012, 06:04 AM
#55
Well, since you wanted another one, here's my snarky reply:
Posters come here and SOME of them want YOU to
act as their travel agent
do all the planning work
post with VERY ambiguous titles
Telling someone how they can improve is neither snarky or negative...it is much better than being passive-aggressive or worse yet, PRETENDING there is absolutely nothing wrong.
Sorry, but real friends don't let you step in it.
Posters come here and SOME of them want YOU to
act as their travel agent
do all the planning work
post with VERY ambiguous titles
Telling someone how they can improve is neither snarky or negative...it is much better than being passive-aggressive or worse yet, PRETENDING there is absolutely nothing wrong.
Sorry, but real friends don't let you step in it.
Jan 4th, 2012, 06:13 AM
#56
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But Dukey1, they aren't our friends. They are strangers. Some folks don't have a clue to begin with, and really freak about travel.
If someone wants to go to Podunk, France, fine. But there are ways to suggest that a stop in Paris might round out the experience without making the person feel like an idiot (even if s/he is one--snort).
If someone wants to go to Podunk, France, fine. But there are ways to suggest that a stop in Paris might round out the experience without making the person feel like an idiot (even if s/he is one--snort).
Jan 4th, 2012, 07:06 AM
#60
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Two things stand out from the posts above.
It is clear that most of us use English but due to cultural differences the way in which we use it causes others to take the meanings differently.
The second point is that there is a deep degree of hypocrisy on show above. Posters who have, above, criticised others for using aggressive behaviour, have themselves been guilty of using some of the saddest forms of amateur psychological profiling to wage wars against others.
There is no need to name names they know who they are!
It is clear that most of us use English but due to cultural differences the way in which we use it causes others to take the meanings differently.
The second point is that there is a deep degree of hypocrisy on show above. Posters who have, above, criticised others for using aggressive behaviour, have themselves been guilty of using some of the saddest forms of amateur psychological profiling to wage wars against others.
There is no need to name names they know who they are!
