Envierges

So, the law she is talking about "the official vote will take place in the fall" is already a done deal and she's hedging? (In lieu of using another word)

I have trouble figuring out what she's saying so don't read her posts anymore. A friend sent me the "clip" I inserted above.

Thanks for your prompt answer.

Envierges

Janisj

Yes, I do. I think the population count is over 200,000. Yes?

fuzzbucket

I'm not sure the person you quoted understands the French language, let alone French legalese. Some people live in a constant state of denial, which is pretty pointless when you live in Paris - but understandable when you have a business to promote.

The law was already adopted on 7 July, as stated in the Senat report.
It will begin to go into effect in mid-September, after the legislators return from vacation.

Individual owners and rental agencies which belong to FNAIM and other lobbying groups are hoping to block this law, but they haven't had any success fighting any other restrictions on vacation rentals, so they are probably wasting their time.

fuzzbucket

200,000 is the magic number.
The regulations in Paris concerning short-term rentals do not apply when the population is 200,000 or less.

So, you could stay in the smaller suburbs or towns near Paris, if you needed an apartment. Just check the official population, first.

Envierges

I've been here a long time and French legalese is still beyond me so that's why I passed this on to this forum . . .and I thank everyone for their answers.

Knowing what had happened in July, I had trouble, as did my friend, understanding why Ms. Leeds was giving the idea that the law would have an "official vote" in the fall . . . .and wondered if I had missed something.

So, essentially, fur begins to fly mid-September although, I've noticed many more "shut downs" taking place already.

Again, thanks for the clarification.

frenchaucoeur

I am with Rialtogirl--I'd like clarification of the implications of the new law. We heard a lot of stuff earlier this year: that any owner who wishes to rent an apartment legally for short-term rentals has to provide equal space somewhere else and about the requirement that apartments be rented for no more than four months a year in total. Are these requirements part of the new law, or does it just apply to tax payments? Was this the point all along--to win tax compliance, with the rest of it just being put out there as a bargaining chip? Or am I missing something? Or is there another law that includes the additional limitations?

This is confusing to many of us who've put plans on hold pending some sort of resolution. Any clarification will be welcome.

rialtogrl

Maybe nobody really knows frenchaucoeur... it seems like if you get a registration number, after proving you are reporting income and paying taxes, that should be it. One of the very confusing things for me was how the government wanted to collect taxes on illegal activity. So maybe they will loosen up the ALUR law so that they can do so.

There's got to be a happy medium.

fuzzbucket

<<...that any owner who wishes to rent an apartment legally for short-term rentals has to provide equal space somewhere else and about the requirement that apartments be rented for no more than four months a year in total.>>

What you have quoted here is a very small portion of the law ALUR, which was the first step in regulating the overabundance of illegal vacation rentals and attempting to provide more long-term housing for working residents and students. There are many more conditions to consider, and some agencies and individuals have tried to over-simplify things to their own advantage.

The law ALUR was the first step in taking action against tax evasion, which exploded along with the short-term rental market during the financial crisis in 2008 - 2009. Many people found a convenient way to purchase and renovate lots of property and to collect funds which were placed safely offshore or collected in another country where taxes were not paid in Paris.

There is a lot more to the law ALUR, including the fact that people wishing to rent short-term have to convince the residents in their building to convert to a commercial tax status - not a lot of people would be anxious to pay more taxes and at a higher level than they already do.

The new law, sponsored by Emmanuel Macron, has already been adopted on 7 July 2016, and will begin to take effect in mid-September 2016. There is a two-fold goal for this law - to investigate, prosecute and prohibit tax-evasion and to protect the legal status of the hotel industry.

Owners will have to prove that they declare and pay taxes in Paris on short-term rentals, before they can receive a registration number. This number will appear on the apartment listing site, guaranteeing that it is a legal rental.
Websites which have no registration numbers will be blocked from advertising on the internet.

It is unclear how rental agencies will attempt to handle this situation.

Hotels pay for yearly inspections and licensing fees, conform to safety, sanitation and access codes, collect and pay tax on revenue. This new law seeks to protect them from property owners and agencies who operate hotel rooms illegally, and with no accountability to the city.

A person who owns and actually lives full-time in an apartment for a minimum of 8 months per year has the legal right to rent the property during his normal vacation period. But this must be permitted in the rules and regulations of the building. If it is not allowed, the owner can face a lawsuit on the part of the other residents. This has always been the case in Paris, and is not part of any new law.

fuzzbucket

The law ALUR did not go away. As I stated, it was the first step in stemming the tide of tax evasion in Paris.

The new law, sponsored by Emmanuel Macron, contains some amplifications of the law ALUR, but does not replace it.

They are two separate laws, both headed in the same direction.

If anyone would like to read them, they are available online, in French, and it takes about 2 months to wade through the content.

There will likely be a lot of confusion and complaining in the next few months - and many people will tell you that everything is "business as usual."
I'm not certain that I would trust that particular statement, given the facts.

frenchaucoeur

Thank you, FB. Just to be clear: the new tax provisions, which seem reasonable, don't affect or replace the provisions on comparable space, etc.-- so an apartment can have a registration number and be advertised on the Internet and still be illegal?
And the city will continue to pursue the owners even if they get a tax registration number unless the entire building agrees to obtain commercial status and the owner provides equivalent space elsewhere?

Do I have it right? If I were an owner, why would I bother to register when I still can't legally rent my apartment for more than four months a year? And other owners in my building could still forbid me to rent?

MmePerdu

"One of the very confusing things for me was how the government wanted to collect taxes on illegal activity."

An old story and not limited to France, if you can't get them one way, get them another. Google Al Capone ("In 1927, the Supreme Court ruled that illegally earned income was subject to income tax;...".

Envierges

Fuzzbucket

Thank you for your clear and concise explanation.

So there are at least three lines of "attack" against illegal rentals:

1. Registration to eliminate tax evasion
2. Enforcement of building bylaws
3. Enforcement of the "equal space" provision in order to provide for legal rental of a non primary residence apartment.

FrenchMystiqueTours

<<200,000 is the magic number.
The regulations in Paris concerning short-term rentals do not apply when the population is 200,000 or less.

So, you could stay in the smaller suburbs or towns near Paris, if you needed an apartment. Just check the official population, first.>>

Although 200,000 is the magic number, as far as discussing Paris it also applies to the three départements that are adjacent to Paris, even though the towns here have populations of less than 200,000. There are also a few exceptions where it applies to places with a population over 50,000.

kerouac

The entire Paris metropolitan area is also subject to rent control now, since tourists are not the only people being overcharged.

fuzzbucket

frenchaucoeur - you might be getting things a little tangled up.

Neither of the two laws require a resident owner - who only wants to rent legally during his vacation period - to construct another property, convince his neighbors to pay commercial taxes, or do anything else.
However, he must prove that he will report the income and pay normal taxes to the City, and will be given a registration number, so that he may advertise on the internet.

If you want to rent your apartment more than 4 months out of the year, and especially if you do not actually live there, you are operating a hotel room without a license, which is illegal.
As such, you will not be allowed to receive a registration number, and will be blocked from advertising on the internet.

Anyone who purchases an apartment in Paris is given a copy of the rules and regulations of the building before the act of sale becomes final. It is up to the purchaser to confirm what is - or what is not - permitted before he buys the property.
The rules may also change during the annual meeting of the residents' association. Due to the problems associated with short-term rentals, it is becoming more common for the building's residents to forbid them.
If someone doesn't speak French and uses an agency or broker to help with the purchase of an apartment, this will not always be made clear.

Marija

We stayed here last week and loved it. Great balcony and views, easy to deal with company located on Ile St. Louis:

https://www.guestapartment.com/rent-...uis-eglantine/

kerouac

Spam?

frenchaucoeur

Sorry to be dense, FB, but I thought there was a provision that in order to rent legally for more than four months (I understand that an owner can rent his primary residence to short-termers for a total of four months or less a year if the building permits it), owners had to have some kind of commercial license and also to provide an alternate space for long-term rental by locals. Is this wrong? You yourself seemed to say it was correct a few posts before.

You seem to be saying that if the building permits it, an owner can get a registration number and advertise as long as he pays his taxes and keeps his rental period to under four months. I get that. I'm wondering about anyone who wants to rent for more than four months--which seems to be a lot of people. Is there no way to do that legally?

fuzzbucket

Sorry if this is confusing to you, but I don't know how to make things any clearer.

To answer your question:
<<I'm wondering about anyone who wants to rent for more than four months--which seems to be a lot of people. Is there no way to do that legally?>>
The answer is "No".
If an owner rents longer than 4 months, this would mean he does not actually live in his apartment and is operating an illegal hotel room.
Period.

frenchaucoeur

Last time: So once the new law goes into effect in September, if an apartment shows up on a website with a registration number, we can assume it's passed muster with the city and is a legal rental (i.e., owner rents out for less than four months, pays taxes, and meets any other requirements)?

Promise this is the last question! Thank you for your patience.