Iwan2go

We rented the Dahlia large studio - overlooking the Pont Marie. Lovely.

janisj

>>Janisj, how do you know they are illegal?<<

Because the vast majority of Parisian short term rentals are currently illegal. There is a tiny list of approved rentals. Most of the time one can get away w/ renting one - it is the owner that is breaking the law, not the agency nor the renter. But if the owner feels the heat -- the apartment will be pulled off the market - maybe the day one is supposed to check in . . .

dragon88

I believe we are talking about the legality of airbnb in Paris. All of those sites mentioned are NOT airbnb and are official businesses and do not advertise as an airbnb. Need to do more research into what is legal and not legal before instilling fear.

cafegoddess

cmcfong, that is a beautiful apt!

thursdaysd

No, it is not just AirBnB, although its success is probably responsible for the fact that apartment rental in Paris has become an issue.

There have been a number of threads about this, try this one:

http://www.fodors.com/community/euro...fect-legal.cfm

fuzzbucket

A new law was adopted by the Senat on 7 July 2016, and which will begin to take effect in mid-September 2016.

The city has been busy digitizing all the information concerning vacation rentals listed on the internet, for the last 3 years. This new law will radically change the vacation rental business - from the standpoints of both agencies and owners.

This law will not permit any vacation apartment to be listed on the internet unless the owner can prove he reports all rental income and pays appropriate taxes in Paris. If the City is satisfied, the owner will receive a registration number. Only apartments with official registration numbers will be allowed to advertise on the internet. The rest will be blocked.

This law is an effort to combat tax evasion as well as to prevent corporations or individuals from running hotels without being licensed to do so.

Since many agencies accept payment in the US or other countries, and do not pay taxes in Paris, and many agencies and individuals accept a portion of the rental fees in cash on arrival, this law will help ameliorate city services which lack funding due to non-payment of taxes.

It is unclear how agencies are planning to deal with the new law.

There are several recent reports on other travel forums stating that clients received notice that their apartments were cancelled "due to the short-term rental ban".

Expect more of this in the near future, as owners probably won't be willing or able to comply with the new law.

janisj

>>I believe we are talking about the legality of airbnb in Paris. All of those sites mentioned are NOT airbnb and are official businesses and do not advertise as an airbnb.<<

Sorry dragon88 but that is incorrect. Airbnb is the largest (and is probably the reason the $hi# has hit the fan) but most short term rentals are illegal, whether on vrbo, homelidays, Paris Perfect, Paris best lodge, Guest Services, Paris Vacation Apartments - and on and on and on. Some of those are just listing sites and some are agencies -- but no matter, it doesn't change the status of the apartments. Just because it is listed with an agency does not make the apartment legal

I've rented several flats in Paris over the years but until there is a full data base of legal properties I won't be doing that again.

An Aparthotel (citadines etc) or a hotel will be my only choices for the time being. It is a shame but it is a WHOLE different ball game now.

kerouac

People who have been renting on Ile Saint Louis over the years can pretty much cross all of the apartments there off their list. 50% of the apartments on the island are exclusively vacation rentals, which means not only that they are illegal but they are also super easy targets for the authorities who can reap substantial fines for such expensive properties.

Ile Saint Louis has been turned into a little fun fair for wealthy visitors, and while it is almost certainly impossible to turn it back into an authentic neighborhood for Parisians, it will at least be a showcase for everything that is wrong with the vacation industry and serve as a reminder to others.

fuzzbucket

There have been some hysterical claims from agencies and individuals stating that Gestapo tactics are in effect in Paris.
This has never been the case, and it's incorrect to say so just because an agency's business has suffered.

In fact, the new law prohibits irate residents from "dropping a dime" and reporting rentals which they find annoying. Though this tactic was acceptable during the early days of the Mayor's crackdown, it was found to be not very effective, and often led to false leads. However, agents are still conducting on-going visits and following up credible leads in order to complete valid dossiers.

The process now entails that the conseil syndical (the board which represents the building) carefully records instances of visitors who come and go on a frequent basis. The board must accurately provide the name and address of the owner(s) of the apartment, the exact location of the apartment, and if a long-term tenant is involved, his name and the person he rents from must also be included. This will involve a different period of time, depending on the frequency with which apartments are rented at a given address.

Then, the board must meet to elect a representative who will make an appointment with the Mayor's office and pose a formal complaint on behalf of the entire building. The owner will be contacted, and if it is determined that he cannot prove that he meets the financial requirements under the new law, he will no longer be allowed to advertise the rental on the internet.

letsgeaux

Regarding dragon88's recommendation of parisbestlodge - What is the deal with them? We have used them in the past and always had great experiences. We have recommended them numerous times on this board. Thierry, their manager, was always on the ball. We spent a week in Paris this past April. When we booked our trip we could not even get in contact with PBL after 3 weeks of trying. We ended up staying at the Westin Hotel which was great but I miss my PBL apartments.

HappyTrvlr

When we rented an apt from Just France the first time,this happened to us when the building stonework was being acid cleaned. They offered us an amazing upgraded property which worked well. Check with them to see what they have available.

dragon88

Thank you all for clarifying the new law. And thanks Letsgeau for your recent experience with PBL. Our son lives and works in Paris and we have visited him sometimes twice a year and used PBL each time. May need to look elsewhere now and change our plans a bit. Sigh....

Christina

I was going to suggest PBL also just due to the location. BTW, I rented from them once and they do NOT manage all the apts they have on their website, some are owned/managed by other people, mine was, and Theirry had nothing to do with the entire transaction except it was listed on his website. But if you can't contact them, obviously they are not running their business well now.

What's this strange idea that other websites are legitimate businesses but Airbnb is not a business and that's the problem? Airbnb is a huge company. It's the situation that is the issue.

Just a thought, maybe you are being too picky if you are rejecting every apt you can find or that is offered. September isn't that far off and peak accommodation demand period in Paris. Does it really have to have some perfect view, for example? Aren't you mainly gone during daylight anyway?

fuzzbucket

If your son knows someone who owns an apartment, and if you can arrange to rent that apartment while the owner goes on vacation, this is legal - as long as the owner reports the income.

It's not legal to sublet an apartment from someone who has signed a lease of nine months (as in the case of a student) or longer (meaning anyone else).

rialtogrl

-This law will not permit any vacation apartment to be listed on the internet unless the owner can prove he reports all rental income and pays appropriate taxes in Paris. If the City is satisfied, the owner will receive a registration number.-

So - does this mean that now, all the owner has to do is report income and pay the necessary taxes? What about all the other Alur law stuff - is that no longer a requirement?

If it is going to come down to you can get a number by paying taxes and reporting income, its going to help, not hurt, the current situation. Right?

(Sorry to hijack your thread TPAYT.)

fuzzbucket

The law ALUR is comprised of many parts - only a very few of them involve the vacation rental issue.
The rest of the content involves protection for landlords as well as their long-term tenants.

The new law is specifically directed to combat tax evasion.

rialtogrl

Thanks fuzzbucket. It sounds like some steps are definitely being made in the right direction.

Envierges

Could someone please explain????

This from Adrian Leed's current

"Recently the French Parliament agreed on the contents of a digital bill that makes home sharing and short-term rentals even more complex for the owners. The official vote will take place in the Fall to introduce a "license to rent."

Is this different than the law already referred to? Is this a compliment to the law mentioned above? I don't understand and would appreciate an explanation or clarification.

Thank you

Whathello

Leeds is just trying to salvage her business. She started saying the law would not pass. Then induced lying by making yearly contract to cancel. Then she said she would ask amendments etc. just read her older posts on her site if they are still there it is fun to read from somebody who presents herself as a professional.

janisj

Envierges: also understand there is a difference between the rules/regulations in small towns/villages and in Paris.