OK - I have followed this board for a long time and have probably read too much to ask this question BUT - I just can't decide. Following is my itinerary for the Scotland half of an England/Scotland trip. I am considering omitting Mull and concentrating on the coast because I feel like we (my mother and I) will be tired after 5 days in Engalnd plus what you see posted. Please help -

Scotland
Day 1 - Dumfries - Edinburgh South

previous night in Lockerbie (this is where I used points to get free hotel)
Caerverlock Castle
Dumfries
thru Moffatt to Borthwick Castle for evening

Day 2 - Edinburgh

all day in Edinburgh, night in Intercontinental George (again with points)

Day 3 - Edinburgh/Blairgowrie

Will drive from Edinburgh to Glamis for Highland Games that afternoon. Spending the night at Craighall Castle outside Blairgowrie

Day 4 - Blairgowrie/Fort Augustus

Dunkeld Cathedral for Sunday Services, Edradour Distillery, House of Bruar (shopping) drive into Fort Augustus for stay at Inchnacardoch Lodge on Loch Ness (My mom really wanted to see Lcoh Ness)

Day 4 - Fort Augustus/Dunvegan

Drive thru Kyle of Lochalsh to Dunvegan. Plan to get on rode early, enjoy drive, possibly see Dunvegan Castle that afternoon before nighting in Kinlochfollart in Dunvegan.

Day 5 - Dunvegan/Fort William

Explore Skye possibly pony trekking or cruise out of Elgol - my mom cannot hike well. Drive to Fort William late afternoon (I know how everyone feels about Ft. Will) stay at Crolinnhe

Day 5 - Fort William to ?????

Had planned to take car ferry to Mull for exploration & stay at Gruline Farm. Should we book accomdations in Oban - explore coast?? Delete extra ferry travel?

Day 5 - ????? to Inverarary

Would like to drive south of Oban thru Kilmartin, possibly see Crarae Gardens (my mom and I both really like Gardens) staying in hotel in Inverarary on points again.

Day 5 - drive to Glasgow for 1:00 pm departure for US.

I'm sure you experts feel like you keep explaining yourselves over and over again to idiots but I have put a great deal of thought into our itinerary and need help. Thanks so much!

There are a few people on this board who travel like this itinerary - a different place every night. But I personally hate it, especially in Scotland. Technically all of your days are "doable" - but they are a LOT of driving plus packing and moving every night.

You already think you will be tired by the time you get to Scotland - well this routing will only make it worse.

Some things to think about:

- driving on the islands and in the west of Scotland is a joy - but it is also very slow.

- Ft William is no great shakes. really no reason to stop over there.

- I LOVE MULL (even more than Skye) but Skye is wonderful. It would be much better to stay 2 nights on Skye instead of dashing on and off after one night.

- on such a short visit concentrate on a few places and you will end up MUCH less tired.

Think about something like
1 night Borthwick

2 nights Edinburgh

1 night Blairgowie

2 (or 3) nights on Skye - you can easily visit Loch Ness on the way to Skye without staying over in Ft Agustus

2 nights in Inveraray (or 1 if you stay 3 nights on Skye) The drive from Mallaig to Inveraray is not bad - no reason to break it up into 3 legs. Especially if you have stayed on Skye a couple of days and relaxed

You are going to a lot of terrific places - but try to not rush about so much.

You don't say if you've driven in the UK before (I assume you're from the US) and I think that this is likely to be the key. Even driving in England on the left won't really prepare you for some of the smaller Scottish roads! If you think that you'll be tired then it's probably worth breaking it up a wee bit - look on it as "saving some for the next visit!"

I knew ya'll were going to get me and I know (from past experience with the board) I can't win this one but . . .

From Blairgowrie to Skye appears to be a really long drive SO rather than spend one day of nothing but hightail it driving - we spend a night to slow down the pace.

I have considered canceling night in Fort William adding 2nd on Skye although I think I will lose my deposit.

To answer your question Keith, no I haven't driven in UK (On other side of road in Islands but not UK)and I am worried about it.

I do appreciate your help!

Cathryn,

I was in the middle of saying that I thought what you were doing was achievable when I realised that (I think) you intend the 2 Day 4s to be your Day 4 and the 4 Day 5s to be your day 5.

If that's right, forget it. You could, at a pinch, do day 4 but day 5 would kill you.

Staring at Dunvegan you could get to Glasgow, but you can't do all the in between stuff.

If i'm misunderstanding then let us know and I'll be more positive about your itinerary.

I am with Sheila in my confusion. I was just about to post that Day 4 and 5 look impossible to me, but I might have misunderstood.

Just in general, this is a VERY ambitious plan for driving in Scotland. As a rule of thumb, being used to North American roads where superhighways mean that 200 miles is just over a 2/2 1/2 hour drive, frankly we found you can easily double that time in Scotland for the same distance.

First, the roads that are not highways (and many on your plan are not)are twisty-turny and route through small towns where you must go slow. Some will (if I've got your plan right) even be two lane, i.e. no passing. Second, in summer (esp. after a bad winter and this one was) there will be construction galore.

Scottish roads are a delight if you've left enough leeway in terms of time and a nightmare if you haven't-my advice, do half of what you currently have planned and come back again. Scotland, like their fine malt should be savoured, not gulped.

I agree about excessive driving on a Scottish holiday. Part of the problem is that you will be in fairly heavily touristed areas with considerable traffic in places, never mind the needs of locals to get around, get their groceries delivered and all that. Hence you may well find yourself following other vehicles on narrow or two-lane roads, with the result (a) you're slowed down and unable to overtake (I call it the "elephants on parade" syndrome) and (b) you're exhausted by having to watch someone else's brake lights for hours on end. That takes the joy out of what ought to be a premier motoring experience, and it consumes useful relaxation and sightseeing time. Many of your planned activities (pony trekking for example) might have to be curtailed by travel time, and if so, what's the point of getting to a place in a hurry or otherwise? Plus, the weather in the west of Scotland isn't exactly tropical, so having to slow down to catch up with the wipers is also a risk.

One note - I think going from Inverary to Glasgow (Abbotsinch airport, I presume), dropping a car, and checking in a couple of hours in advance of a 1 PM flight, sounds like a stretch unless you're up with the owls. It doesn't look far on a map, but it's not a quick drive by any means.

Moral is - don't post after chocolate martinis - they are all separate days for a total of nine.

I know I'm in for big shock in driving however I have checked mapquest and noticed that they seem to estimate 30mph - so I have to.

I was a little nervous about the night in Inveraray but generally we are up really early and I didn't want to ruin the day before making it all about driving. My mom and I have taken "road trips" thru New England and don't mind driving some each day as long as it's not the bulk of the day. It kinda gives her a chance to rest. So we like to drive a little, do something, drive a little, do something, drive a little, check in and have a drink! Thanks again for your help

Having said all that (and your probably wondering why I have even brought my itinerary out in the light of day) I'm going to take a look and see what I can do with my existing reservations. I will post again soon - please help more!

Cathryn with that helpful clarification (don't worry; I'm numerally dyslexic myself, with the exception of the day that goes from Dunvegan to Fort William where the distance is fine, but you're cramming too much in) I don't think there are problems. No single day is too long.

I hadn't spotted the 1pm bit from Glasgow (Abbotsinch??? when was it last called that? when that boy Wright droped in?. But for a transatlantic flight it's a 2 hour check in; you need to build in some time for commuter traffic, even if you come down Loch Lomond and cross the Erskine Bridge; I'm notoriously late for planes, but I'd be out of Inverary by 7am to be sure of that one. keep moving the day before and stay at Balloch or somewhere like that.

I don't see a reason to drop Mull.

Sheila...okay, okay, so I'm old. But I once booked a flight to Glasgow and discovered Ayrshire outside the window, back when they called it Glasgow Prestwick. Never made that mistake again. It's like calling it London Luton - hah!

(My sweet late father-in-law in 1980 or so described to a first time Atlantic flyer to London that she'd be landing at the Croydon Aerodrome, the same airport he used in the 40s. I believe that field is now occupied by the Home Office's aptly named Lunar House.)

I can cancel the reservation in Fort Augustus - but to what?

A Stay a second night in Blairgowrie? go to Dunkeld and then back to the castle (that is not sarcastic I see it as a restful option)? If I go up north to Pitlochry and Blair Atholl I don't see backtracking to Blairgowrie. Next day drive all the way to Dunvegan.

B Stay a night in Pitlochry. Having gone to Dunkeld in morning, go to Blair Atholl in afternoon and stay night. Next day drive to Dunvegan.

I can also cancel in Fort William - So would it be helpful to stay one night on the southern end of Skye? It doesn't make much sense to me to book two nights in Dunvegan from a driving standpoint. Although it would assuredly be nice to stay somewhere two nights in the same hotel - I just don't see it. Then drive from Skye to Mull next day?

More help please.

Oh this is so difficult - it all sounds so pretty and when you've never been there. So here is another questions for you (if anyone will still listen). Is the scenery in Skye typical of the rest of the West Coast? That is if I make Skye the end of my trip except for a day driving to Glasgow - when I drive down the coast am I going to think, oh this is somewhere I should have spent more time? And is the middle route, Dunkeld-Blair Atholl as pretty as it sounds, worth a great deal of time? Who would have thought vacationing was so hard? (By the way when I vacation with my husband we pick one spot, an island, and sit in one place for a week.)

I'm not much help, Cathryn, since I, too, will be driving Scotlan (from Glasgow to the Orkneys to Edinburgh) this summer for the first time. I have appreciated the exchange here, which will influence the route that I plan. I have a question for you, and for anyone else who's listening: should I book my hotel reservations for every night of the journey or leave some nights to chance, not knowing exactly how far it may be between destinations?

Aren't we lucky!

Based on my experience I think you ought to leave bookings open if you are a flexible kinda guy.

I did not for two reason - One where possible (Hiltons, Marriotts, Best Westerns, Intercontinentals, etc.) I was using free nights and those must be booked ahead and because, well, I have armchair lived this trip for almost a year. And in a LOT of ways I have loved that and it helped me discover things I wouldn't have otherwise,like -

We're in Bath England the last night of the music festival and so got tickets

We'll be near Forfar on the day of their Highland games and so plan to attend

And lots of other little things. But I do find the more I research the more I second guess myself (only on Scotland though not having trouble with England for some reason)

Sheila and Janis can probably let you know how full accomodations will be - but if I had to plan (or not plan it again) I MIGHT leave more to chance.

Happy Traveling!

Cathryn: _ all of the places you want to see are very worthwhile. But try to organize things so you are not to-ing and fro-ing so much. Staying two (or more) nights in one place makes perfect sense. For instance - on Skye - stay two nights in a nice B&B and use it as a base to see the whole island. Instead of packing and moving on every night. I would cancel both Ft Agustus and Ft William and just stay in places you like along your route.

The sample itinerary I suggested still would work - but of course you could stay other places as well. You have enough time to see Blairgowie / Loch Ness / Skye and lots of Argyll. Oh - and the scenery on Skye is pretty unique. The rock formations, the cullins, waterfalls into the sea, beautiful bays, etc - it is a magical place. But they don't call it the "misty Isle" for nothing. I have been on Skye probably 12 or more times - and have only "seen" Skye maybe 4 or 5 times. Some trips have been unbelievably clear and gorgeous - but more have been overcast, low ceiling, driving rain, etc. So you could plan on 2 days on the isle and if you have terrible weather you could drop the 2nd night and move on to the mainland.

terry B: Places you should definitely book ahead of time are Edinburgh, and any other "musts" where you want to stay in a specific B&B. Otherwise, you can find places easily as you go along - or better yet use the Tourist Information Centers in every town and most villages. Their system saves you a lot of searching time and gives you a LOT of flexibility. The TIC will call ahead and get you rooms for the same night or for a few days in advance. So if you pull into a nice village and decide to stay a while - just go into th etIC and they will sort you out. Or if you decide that day after tomorrow you want to be in Orkney or wherever, the TIC will make that booking too.

Thanks again to everyone for their help - I have extended Blairgowrie to 2 nights and Skye to 2 nights. I have left the middle night OPEN (how crazy for me the planner) I am actually considering extending Blairgowrie another night to day trip to Stirling from there. Driving straight from Blairgowrie to Skye and straight from Skye to Glasgow - so there, and ya'll thought I couldn't learn.

But JANIS here is a memory question for you - In an OLD post you said that on Sundays the Old Course at St. Andrews is closed and you can walk it - still true? My mother would LOVE this. If you don't know but have suggestions on finding out please let me know. Thanks!

Cathryn - Still true. There is no play on the Old Course on Sundays. So you and your Mom can walk the whole thing - or just go to the most famous bits like Hell bunker, the Road Hole, the massive double greens, etc. Step down into hell Bunker and you will know in an instant why it is called that -

There will be a lot of folks out walking the course, running their dogs, just enjoying the scenery. And the strand that runs parallel to the outward nine is the beach where they filmed the memorable beach scenes in Charriots of Fire.

I am so glad you decided to extend your stops. You will end up seeing just as mucb (or possible more) and still have a familiar place to come home to at night.