Russian Cyrillic Alphabet Chart
Jul 3rd, 2007, 11:55 AM
#41
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 17,106
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Seamus: Thanks for the explanation. I had some suspicions that was what it meant, but you've just confirmed it. 
For those who suggest using only a phrasebook: I have to disagree. At least personally I need to hear some of the sounds of the language. In Flight does that for me and the booklet gives me the basic phrases which I can repeat to myself without the CD.
waring: that's exactly it! It's in the European family of languages. Giovanna already has the fundamentals in her.
Let me explain further. Russian is written from left to right. It's not written from right to left nor from top to bottom. Instinctively Giovanna will read Russian from left to right.
In the same vein, since she's a speaker of an European language, she already knows the BASIC STRUCTURE of European languages.
Every time I have to learn a European language by the book method, I have to spend hours learning "I am, you are, he/she is, etc." Conjugating endlessly in the present tense, then having to learn the past tense, the future tense, and on through all the various tenses. On the other hand, Chinese has no tenses, but it does have tones, so the beginner in Chinese starts out drilling in tones, not pronouns and tenses.
Folks, all I'm trying to do here to tell Giovanna not to make things harder for herself. She already has the basic structure of the language and can put things together once she learns a few Russian words. Of course, Russian is different. It's a different language, but all you need are a few basic words and you willl not feel so lost in Russia.
Learning the Cyrillic alphabet really helps.
Have fun! Russia is a fascinating country!
For those who suggest using only a phrasebook: I have to disagree. At least personally I need to hear some of the sounds of the language. In Flight does that for me and the booklet gives me the basic phrases which I can repeat to myself without the CD.
waring: that's exactly it! It's in the European family of languages. Giovanna already has the fundamentals in her.
Let me explain further. Russian is written from left to right. It's not written from right to left nor from top to bottom. Instinctively Giovanna will read Russian from left to right.
In the same vein, since she's a speaker of an European language, she already knows the BASIC STRUCTURE of European languages.
Every time I have to learn a European language by the book method, I have to spend hours learning "I am, you are, he/she is, etc." Conjugating endlessly in the present tense, then having to learn the past tense, the future tense, and on through all the various tenses. On the other hand, Chinese has no tenses, but it does have tones, so the beginner in Chinese starts out drilling in tones, not pronouns and tenses.
Folks, all I'm trying to do here to tell Giovanna not to make things harder for herself. She already has the basic structure of the language and can put things together once she learns a few Russian words. Of course, Russian is different. It's a different language, but all you need are a few basic words and you willl not feel so lost in Russia.
Learning the Cyrillic alphabet really helps.
Have fun! Russia is a fascinating country!
Jul 3rd, 2007, 03:37 PM
#42
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 1,549
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The structure of Slavic languages is very different from the structure of English. I don't get at all the idea that someone would instinctively know what to do.
The only thing good about Russian is it is pronounced exactly the way it sounds. The worst you can do is put the accent in the wrong place. The problem is that, when they answer back, they generally do not use words that you know and then you are reduced to explaining you are in American, speak slowly, etc. If all else fails, hand signals and jumping up and down sometimes work.
By the way, the word for toilet in Russian is pronounced "tooalyet". In Flight Hungarian did not have the Hungarian word for toilet. That was hard to believe because that is one word that you need in every language.
The only thing good about Russian is it is pronounced exactly the way it sounds. The worst you can do is put the accent in the wrong place. The problem is that, when they answer back, they generally do not use words that you know and then you are reduced to explaining you are in American, speak slowly, etc. If all else fails, hand signals and jumping up and down sometimes work.
By the way, the word for toilet in Russian is pronounced "tooalyet". In Flight Hungarian did not have the Hungarian word for toilet. That was hard to believe because that is one word that you need in every language.
Jul 3rd, 2007, 05:27 PM
#44
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,876
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
How odd that we, both here (with visitors in our home for weeks!!) and in Russia (in THEIR homes for a week) have been able to make do with a very rudimentary Russian-English dictionary to communicate with people.
IF you are travelling to Russia on a tourist trip, get a dictionary and learn the alphabet.
IF you are travelling to Russia on a tourist trip, get a dictionary and learn the alphabet.
Jul 3rd, 2007, 05:50 PM
#45
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 6,818
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
to all who have so ably demonstrated their varying degrees of knowledge of the Russian language, may I leave you and this thread, with this:
Ya ishchu svobody i pokoya!
Ya khochu zabytsa i zasnoot!
"I want only freedom and peace...
I seek oblivion and rest"!
Goodnight, and Happy Fourth of July..
Stu T.
Ya ishchu svobody i pokoya!
Ya khochu zabytsa i zasnoot!
"I want only freedom and peace...
I seek oblivion and rest"!
Goodnight, and Happy Fourth of July..
Stu T.
Jul 4th, 2007, 08:02 AM
#47
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 5,601
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
What I remember best from the drills:
"Ya inzhenier. Ya rabotayu tsyelii dyehn i notch kak mashina.
"I'm an engineer. I work every day and night like a machine."
;-)
(Frankly, the language that helped me the most to understand Russian grammar was Latin -- similar conjugations and declensions.)
"Ya inzhenier. Ya rabotayu tsyelii dyehn i notch kak mashina.
"I'm an engineer. I work every day and night like a machine."
;-)
(Frankly, the language that helped me the most to understand Russian grammar was Latin -- similar conjugations and declensions.)
Jul 5th, 2007, 07:26 AM
#49
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 1,022
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
On the subject of Russian being close to other European languages, I would maintain that it has a significant number of cognates, such as PECTOPAH that would sound roughly the same in many lanuages. My father, a linguist, at some point was working on a list of Russian-English cognates but never got to finish/publish it. At the last count he had over 5,000 words.
E.g. absolute - absolutniy
program(me) - programma, etc.
I have since seen an electronic version of it. Don't know how many words, but I would imagine it can be useful for a traveler.
Can't disagree with FauxSteMarie though, about generally sticking to a tour director or someone reliable, while in Russia.
-e
E.g. absolute - absolutniy
program(me) - programma, etc.
I have since seen an electronic version of it. Don't know how many words, but I would imagine it can be useful for a traveler.
Can't disagree with FauxSteMarie though, about generally sticking to a tour director or someone reliable, while in Russia.
-e
Jul 5th, 2007, 11:04 AM
#51
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 13,194
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
<< On the subject of Russian being close to other European languages, I would maintain that it has a significant number of cognates, such as PECTOPAH that would sound roughly the same in many lanuages. My father, a linguist, at some point was working on a list of Russian-English cognates but never got to finish/publish it. At the last count he had over 5,000 words. >>
This underscores my thinking that the ability to transliterate is more useful than some others suggest here.
And I bet that if you speak (even passably) one-or-more Romance languages and/or one-or-more Germanic languages (other than English), the number of recognizable cognates might be double.
Moreover, travelers (Americans, in particular? but not exclusively) are likely to benefit from cognates that have the highest probably to be steal words from English, for various (modern, or technological) things... precisely because of the lingua franca position that English enjoys in business and technology.
Интэрнэт - - for example? (I'm just guessing that this is a cognate)...
...oh, and for those who need a source... the HTML codes for Cyrillic are at http://webdesign.about.com/od/locali...mlcodes-ru.htm - - probably other places as well.
This underscores my thinking that the ability to transliterate is more useful than some others suggest here.
And I bet that if you speak (even passably) one-or-more Romance languages and/or one-or-more Germanic languages (other than English), the number of recognizable cognates might be double.
Moreover, travelers (Americans, in particular? but not exclusively) are likely to benefit from cognates that have the highest probably to be steal words from English, for various (modern, or technological) things... precisely because of the lingua franca position that English enjoys in business and technology.
Интэрнэт - - for example? (I'm just guessing that this is a cognate)...
...oh, and for those who need a source... the HTML codes for Cyrillic are at http://webdesign.about.com/od/locali...mlcodes-ru.htm - - probably other places as well.
Jul 5th, 2007, 11:53 AM
#52
<< On the subject of Russian being close to other European languages, I would maintain that it has a significant number of cognates, such as PECTOPAH that would sound roughly the same in many lanuages. My father, a linguist, at some point was working on a list of Russian-English cognates but never got to finish/publish it. At the last count he had over 5,000 words. >>
But how many of those cognates are words a traveler is likely to need? I agree with restaurant, and I think internet and supermarket were easy enough to figure out, but I didn't find that any of the menu words were cognates. My country count is now up around 50, mostly Europe and Asia, and I found Russia one of the hardest countries from a language point of view - I'm mostly monoglot, but speak some French and supposedly learned Latin in school. I think German would have been more useful in Eastern Europe and Russia.
But how many of those cognates are words a traveler is likely to need? I agree with restaurant, and I think internet and supermarket were easy enough to figure out, but I didn't find that any of the menu words were cognates. My country count is now up around 50, mostly Europe and Asia, and I found Russia one of the hardest countries from a language point of view - I'm mostly monoglot, but speak some French and supposedly learned Latin in school. I think German would have been more useful in Eastern Europe and Russia.
Jul 5th, 2007, 01:04 PM
#53
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 13,194
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
<< But how many of those cognates are words a traveler is likely to need? >>
If a letter transliteration chart helps Giovanna figure out 10 words that she finds useful, isn't that success? Would INTERNET be obvious, if a person didn't show interest in a "crib sheet" to transliterate it?
The glass half full, my friend... the glass half full.
Her goals in wanting it, and the "mission" of providing it to her... are worthy of encouragement, not the heaps (kinda, sorta) of disdain she has received.
If a letter transliteration chart helps Giovanna figure out 10 words that she finds useful, isn't that success? Would INTERNET be obvious, if a person didn't show interest in a "crib sheet" to transliterate it?
The glass half full, my friend... the glass half full.
Her goals in wanting it, and the "mission" of providing it to her... are worthy of encouragement, not the heaps (kinda, sorta) of disdain she has received.
Jul 5th, 2007, 01:55 PM
#54
Nothing wrong with being able to transliterate - I did it myself. I just found the reference to 5,000 cognates misleading. As I wrote, I found transliteration totally useless when it came to finding something to eat. On the other hand, it came in handy in the metro.
Jul 5th, 2007, 04:59 PM
#55
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 559
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Russian and French have a LOT more common words than people realize. There are a few similiarities in German, too- but isn't it more fun to learn new words? This is why I so strongly disliked learning French- too much like English.
(I guess as a FL teacher, maybe my perspective is different than most!)
(I guess as a FL teacher, maybe my perspective is different than most!)
Jul 5th, 2007, 05:11 PM
#56
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 49,560
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Well, I studied Russian for almost three years (not intensively - twice-a-week lessons for two hours), and the structure of the other European languages I'd already learned helped me enormously. Certainly there are differences between Slavi and romance languages, but anyone who's got a basic grounding in Latin grammar and knows a romance language or two, and/or some German, will have no problem at all understanding the structure of Russian.
I found it to be a very rich and complex language, though, and, like Arabic (which totally confounded me), I never made much headway in it. Was probably at a too-busy time of my life to really get into it. I'd like to revisit it one day, though.
I found it to be a very rich and complex language, though, and, like Arabic (which totally confounded me), I never made much headway in it. Was probably at a too-busy time of my life to really get into it. I'd like to revisit it one day, though.
Jul 6th, 2007, 07:05 AM
#57
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 1,022
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Rex, I agree.
Since leaving Russia over 20 years ago, I have been amazed at how many English words in particular, have been "borrowed". One of my favorites is 'markEting' which the Russians insist on pronouncing with a stress on the second syllable. Drives me nuts.
Thursdaysd- I don't know what is misleading about a reasonably established fact that there are at least 5000 same-sounding words in Russian and English. That's out of 60000 or so in a popular dictionary. Distribution is probably skewed toward the academic/scientific, political, philosophical (my unscientific guess). Perhaps architecture, as much skilled labor to build St. Pete's and Moscow came from Western Europe.
Etymologically, and I agree with St. Cirq and Katya, those words could have come from French, Italian, Latin, German and many others and, as cognates go, would still sound the same as in English.
My father at some point stated that only 10% of Russian words can be considered truly "Russian", the rest borrowed from anything from Mongol to Swedish to Azeri and hundreds of other ethnic minorities that populate Russia today - this probably less relevant for an English monoglot, though
-e
Since leaving Russia over 20 years ago, I have been amazed at how many English words in particular, have been "borrowed". One of my favorites is 'markEting' which the Russians insist on pronouncing with a stress on the second syllable. Drives me nuts.
Thursdaysd- I don't know what is misleading about a reasonably established fact that there are at least 5000 same-sounding words in Russian and English. That's out of 60000 or so in a popular dictionary. Distribution is probably skewed toward the academic/scientific, political, philosophical (my unscientific guess). Perhaps architecture, as much skilled labor to build St. Pete's and Moscow came from Western Europe.
Etymologically, and I agree with St. Cirq and Katya, those words could have come from French, Italian, Latin, German and many others and, as cognates go, would still sound the same as in English.
My father at some point stated that only 10% of Russian words can be considered truly "Russian", the rest borrowed from anything from Mongol to Swedish to Azeri and hundreds of other ethnic minorities that populate Russia today - this probably less relevant for an English monoglot, though
-e
