I have always been interested in Russia and am planning on finally going in late May/early June 2005. I was thinking of 3 days in Moscow, taking the overnight train to St. Petersburg and then 3 days there. I am still in the very early planning stages so it can be different time frames and different cities. Any ideas out there?

I would say at least 4 days in each city as well as a side trip to some of the towns in the Golden Ring, such as Suzdal and Vladimir or Sergiev Posad and Rosov- Veliky. Instead of an overnight train direct from Moscow to St Petersburg take the overnight train to Novgorod, just south of St Petersburg, spend a night, then take the train the next morning to St Petersburg.

Agree - why go all that way for only one week? Recommend at least two weeks if you can get the time - per the suggestions above - there is a huge amount to see and do.

I found that 3 days was more than enough to see the most important attractions of Moscow. It is enough time to see the Kremlin, including the diamond treasury and the Romanov treasury; the Bolshoi; Red Square/St Basil/Lenin tomb; Arbat market and the metro; the Tretyakov gallery, and even went to see Kuskovo (an estate outside of town belonging to Count Sheremetyev). In all, I really don't think you need more time than that to get a general impression of Moscow..

For St. Petersburg, though, you might want more time than 3 days- I would say at least 5.. You really need one day just for the Hermitage... Plus a day to see the mansions (e.g. Yusupov, Stroganov); then the summer palace and it's gardens; then the churches (Spilled Blood; St Isaac; Nevski avra); the Vasilevsky island and Peter and Paul fortress; then Nevsky prospect and general shopping.

I would not bother with the train- it takes too long and too much time from your precious vacation, plus I have heard that it can be _very_ dangerous with pick pockets and racketeers. It is especially not recommended if you are a woman. Take an Aeroflot flight- it is very cheap, though _extremely_ uncomfortable and rudimentary (ditto for airport). It does get you there in about an hour, however. Or, you can take one of the private, and more expensive, flights with a charter.

Yes, it would be nice to see the some of the cities of the Golden Ring, but it does take more time, which you might not have. From personal experience, 10 days should be enough for Moscow/St Petes...

I am not sure where you heard that these overnight trains are unsafe. This simply isn't true. I have traveled numerous times on this route and never experienced nor heard of any problems.

Two person and four person compartments are lock from the inside. There is storage space under the lower bunks so when you are sleeping no one can get the things placed there without lifting you up.

The night train will save you time as well as the cost of a hotel.

Time and cost for an air flight is considerable when you consider the cost of transfer to airport and time required befor flight as well as the flight itself.

Thank you all for your suggestions. I hope it will help in my planning. I am female but will be traveling with a male companion. I had heard that as long as you are in a first class compartment it should be safe in the train. I will check out the flight prices. More to come!

I just returned from a 2 week tour to Moscow and St. Petersburg with elderhostel. While I did not do it independently, there may be things in my trip report that could assist you. It is in 4 parts on independenttraveler.com

Here is the direct link:

http://boards.independenttraveler.co...play.php?f=140

I can't imagine saying 3 days would be enough for Moscow. We had a week and there was plenty I did not see. As with a limited time in any large multifaceted big city all you can do is touch a few highlights.

I cannot wait to return! Russia was absolutely fabulous. I waited so long to take this trip and wondered why it had taken me so long afterwards.

By the way, learn to read the Cyrillic letters before you go. It will make things much easier for you.

I don't know..I got robbed on an overnight to Monaco from Brussels, and think it was probably by train staff who had emergency keys, so I cannot imagine that Russian trains are safe..

Garfield, I have heard *many* horror stories and if you want to learn about them in detail, including references and phones of individuals, we can exchange emails. It also depends what you look like, how you are dressed and appear as an easy target. Your own experiences notwithstanding, there are many people who thought it was unpleasant.

The aeroflot flight was $80. Yes, cheap, but, like I said, very uncomfortable...And they might try to scam you for *overweight* luggage fee (like they did us) so pack light..

I agree with Garfield's advice who is obviously a very experienced traveller in Russia.

I too have been to Russia many many times over the past 20 years. The train (overnight or day) from Moscow to /Novgorod or St Petersburg is a wonderful experience.

I cannot imagine why someone would think that going to an unpleasant domestic terminal on the outskirts of the city and taking a flight is better than taking a train-city centre to city centre. Try the Nikolayevsky Express, it was about USD80 1st class one way on my last trip (April 2004). They even provided an extra padlock so you can lock the compartment from the inside. I've travelled on the train alone several times. There are always horror stories including those about Russian domestic flights on ex-Aeroflot.

Novgorod is a very interesting old Russian city with it's own Kremlin. I've been there a couple of times and visited beautiful old churches beside a nearby lake. The locals were enjoying the sunshine, sunbathing and swimming in the river. May/June is a good time to go as it could coincide with White Nights.

I never find 3 days enough time in Moscow. There's so much to see: The University, Novodevichy Convent, the Exhibition of Economic Achievements (nowadays it's probably called something else), Kolomenskoe estate etc etc.

Have been to Russia many times. I just returned a few weeks ago. Have flown back and forth between LED-SVO1 on both Pulkovo and Aeroflot many times. Have taken the over night train as well as the 'Speed Train'. You will enjoy all. You will survive all.
I am assuming that this is the first time you have traveled to Russia. I predict if you go it will not be the last. That said, in the spirit you have asked the question, I would say that you can not make a bad choice. If time is not an issue, I would opt for the train experience. I can still recall the first time I ever took the train from Moscow to Saint Petersburg. It has been a few years, but that memory still lingers. An alternative to the over night train would to take the fast train. I maybe a bit off in my arrival and departure times, but this train leaves Moscow at 18:00-18:30 and arrives Saint Petersburg 22:00-22:30. Seems like the times are quite similar from Saint Petersburg to Moscow.
You can't beat the convenience of going from city-centre to city centre either.
You could spend as much time, or close to the same time getting to and from airports and hotels, as you will spend on the train. Also, by late May and early June you'll have daylight to see much of the country side if at train.
That said, you will not have a problem taking the short 1 hour flight either. I would not worry either way. Just enjoy.

I also suggest about 3 days in Moscow and 5+ in St. Pete. We took the overnight train (last year) from Pete-Moscow (Red Arrow). We could not board the train until almost midnight and then early arrival in Moscow left us pretty tired for the day. It was a nice train and we felt safe (there was a double lock on the door). If you fly, I'd check on the airport location in Moscow. The internation terminal was about a 20 min. taxi ride I recall.
We traveled on our own and loved Russia. I hope to return...

So if I took the train during the day to St. P from Moscow would it be worth it to see some of the country side or would that be too much of a waste of my precious time. Also, what might be the best way to see one or more of the cities in the "Golden Ring"? What about car rental? I've done it in Italy and Ireland. Are there any problems or benefits I should be aware of in doing that if we so choose?