7sconnolly

Hello Fodorites,

We just found RT tickets to London for a very low price, so we booked a 2 week trip for Sept 19-Oct 2. Coming to you for your advice on a very rough itinerary to see if we're on the right track for timelines as far as where we're staying each night. I have not yet booked open-jaw flights to and from London (LGW), because I'm trying to determine if my timeline is solid first. Also, I know hotels need to get booked asap since we're dealing with Oktoberfest. Basically, I just need to get the structure in place and I will fill in the rest of the itinerary details later. We really want this trip to primarily be about small towns, beautiful scenery, with a healthy mix of fun and adventure. We plan on renting a car unless there is a particular leg of this journey where it makes more sense to take a train. We'd rather be in control of our schedule though, with the ability to pull off to check out the scenery at any time.

Okay, let me have it

20-Sep Arrive London 7:50am - fly to Zurich 6:05pm easyjet (can't find another direct from LGW - advice welcome). Stay in Zurich?
21-Sep Murren - explore Berner Oberland area
22-Sep Murren - explore Berner Oberland area
23-Sep Innsbruck
24-Sep Salzburg - Hohensalzburg Fortress, walking city and scenic area; not interested in Museums or Sound of Music sites this trip
25-Sep Salzburg - explore Lake district
26-Sep Munich - happy birthday to me
27-Sep Munich - Neuschwanstein
28-Sep Rothenburg or Bamberg? drive Romantic Road
29-Sep Mainz - would like to see the castles along the river
30-Sep Mainz - Berg Eltz?
1-Oct Dusseldorf to London - Easyjet 8:45pm - 9:10pm Stay near LGW airport
2-Oct Fly out London Gatwick 12:00pm

Thanks in advance for your advice and tips -
Shannon

PalenQ

Id renting car I would forego a car until you get down from car-less Murren - not even accessible by car and remember that renting in one country and returnng in another can result in surcharges for doing so as steep as the highest Alps You have too many places as you will need most of a day of travel going between them. Thus you will get to Innsbruck late in day and leave in morning - hardly worth it. For lots on trains check <a href="www.bahn.de/en">www.bahn.de/en</a> - German Railways site where you can book own tickets for trains involving Germany and schedules for all European trains; www.seat61.com; <a href="www.budgeteuropetravel.com;">www.budgeteurop etravel.com;</a> <a href="www.ricksteves.com">www.ricksteves.com</a>.<br /><br />Murren is a poor choice for exploring Jungfrau area as it's remote - Wengen another car-less village is much better situated and IMO even better views and town than Murrren. I'd add another day to Jungfrau region as again it will take much of a day to get there.

whitehall

At about the same time last fall, we took a somewhat similar journey in less time. We have been to Innsbruck a couple times, and we were not wowed by it. But I think a day trip from Salzburg to Lake Hallstatt might meet your criteria (fun and beautiful). Here is our report: 3 Countries, 8 Places, 8 Nights, Awesome! You might also check the dates for the Salzburg Oktoberfest (which they call something else), a real rollicking small town event compared to the large carnival-like grounds in Munich. And, we easily did it all by rail, which was as perfect as the weather.

PalenQ

Yes no need to rent a car for the proposed itinerary - especially since with that fast-paced schedule you'd have little time to take side roads and have to stick to boring Autobahns to keep to your schedule.

kja

I must admit that 2 days for the Bernese Oberland sounds on the short side to me. Too, I must admit that I prefer both Wengen and Lauterbrunnen to Mürren, although many people feel differently.

I'm a fan of Zurich, but it doesn't sound like you would be giving it any time, and if not, then move on! (Or add time there.)

7sconnolly

Thanks for all of the fantastic feedback so far! We found a better flight from London into Geneva, so we are planning to stay in Lausanne our first night instead of Zurich. After reading all of your comments on Wengen and doing some research, we decided to stay there! Looks and sounds amazing and exactly what we envisioned for Switzerland.

PalenQ - Thank you for the info on the train schedules. We'll do some research and probably put off renting a car until we get to Germany. We traveled to Italy a few years ago and only used the train system, so we're comfortable with that option, as long as the schedules work in our favor.

Whitehall - thank you for your trip report! It was so well written and descriptive! It sounds like we are birds of a feather as far as our travel style, so it was great to see that acknowledged and respected.

The fact that this trip coincides with Oktoberfest was actually a coincidence, not our intended goal. We don't mind a good festival, but after some initial research on Munich and the crowds, we're actually thinking about skipping the city altogether and adding the time on in other areas. Is there a quieter town outside of Munich to explore Bavaria that you would recommend?

Also, does it make sense to break up the trek from Wengen to Salzburg with a night in Innsbruck, or should we just push through?

7sconnolly

Also, I have no idea what this 'Quick Reply' is and how to use it. Am I supposed to Quick Reply to each comment instead?

neckervd

My suggestion:
Day 1:
LGW dp 11.55 - GVA ar 14.30. Dp from Geneva airport train station at 15.20 - Montreux ar 16.38 (direct train, trains about every 30 min). Sleep at or around Montreux
Day 2:
Montreux dp 9.44 by Golden Pass Panoramic Express to Gstaad - Interlaken ar 12.50. Have lunch at Interlaken or continue straight to your final destination (Wengen ar 13.49 or Grindelwald ar 13.38).

7sconnolly

Thank you for the tip on Montreaux and the Panoramic Express! That sounds like a great plan.

PalenQ

Sorry for messing up train references - www.seat61.com; BETS-European Rail Experts and www.ricksteves.com.

whitehall

The Salzburg St. Rupert’s Fair which has the beer tents and Oktoberfest style music and partying is Sept. 20-24. If you go outside that date, our favorite beer hall in Europe can be found at Augustiner Braustubl, the biggest beer tavern in Austria. Still operated in conjunction to the Abbey where monks made beer for nearly 400 years. (It will be dead during the St. Rupert’s festival). If you like easy hiking, taking the trail across the mountain from the castle to the beer hall (follow the beer mug signs) is wonderful.

7sconnolly

After more research, we're already on version 2 of our itinerary. I'm sad to give up the Lake Hallstatt and Wolfgang visit for this trip, but past experience has definitely taught us to account more for travel time. We'll just have to add it to the future 'Salzburg, Vienna, Prague, Slovakia' trip we'll take someday.

Any feedback on this version? Any suggestions for activities or hotels welcomed. We'll be renting a car in Fussen for Germany. I haven't put any timelines around visiting sites yet, so these are just places we'd like to see. We're not sure if we want to venture into Munich during Oktoberfest with all the crowds. Smaller towns with smaller beer gardens would be much more our speed.

19-Sep Depart TPA 6:20pm
20-Sep Arrive London 7:50am - Geneva 11:55am-2:30pm; Stay Montreux
21-Sep Golden Panoramic Express Montreux to Lauterbrunnen - Stay Wengen Belvedere Hotel
22-Sep Wengen Belvedere Hotel
23-Sep Wengen Belvedere Hotel
24-Sep Fussen - Zugspitze
25-Sep Fussen - Neuschwanstein (exterior only); Mary's Bridge; Hohenschwangau; Hohes Schloss
26-Sep Rothenburg - via Dachau
27-Sep Rothenburg - explore Romantic Road area
28-Sep Rothenburg - explore Romantic Road area
29-Sep Bacharach - Rhine cruise
30-Sep Bacharach - Burg Eltz
1-Oct Dusseldorf to London - Easyjet 8:45pm - 9:10pm
2-Oct London Gatwick 12:00pm - Arrive 4:25pm TPA

neckervd

Wengen - Fuessen is a rather long and complicated train journey because of works along the railway line.
May be you try to rent a car at Konstanz, Friedrichshafen or Lindau (all in Germany) instead of Fuessen.
A train ride from Interlaken to Konstanz lasts 3 1/2 hrs (2 changes; trains every hr) whereas Interlaken - Fuessen lasts 7 1/2 to 8 1/2 hrs with at least 4 (and up to 8) train changes according to the train connection you choose.
Or visit Zugspitze before Fuessen and go by train from Interlaken via Zurich - Innsbruck to Garmisch, the starting point of Zugspitzbahn (7 1/2 hrs journey too, but only 3 changes).

7sconnolly

Wow! Thanks for that insight. We will definitely check out renting a car in Konstanz instead.

7sconnolly

Itinerary is starting to shape up now, but I have some questions about our time in Germany. I know we can't fit everything in, so I'm looking for some advice on which towns to visit during our time in the Rothenburg area. I took a stab, but not sure if this is a practical timeline. I really just want to stroll around the towns, see the architecture, and grab some food and drinks unless there are some "don't want to miss" sites/attractions that you would suggest. Also wondering if my plan to take a train from Bacharach to Bingen to start the cruise up the Rhine makes sense. As always, thanks for all your advice.


20-Sep Arrive in Geneva 2:30pm; Stay Montreux Eurotel
21-Sep Stay Wengen Belvedere Hotel - Golden Panoramic Express Montreux-Lauterbrunnen. Montreux dp 9.44 by Golden Pass Panoramic Express to Gstaad - Interlaken ar 12.50. Have lunch in Interlaken, then on to Wengen.
22-Sep Stay Wengen - hike Männlichen to Kleine Scheidegg; Trümmelbach Falls
23-Sep Stay Wengen– Jungfraujoch or Murren/Schilthorn (weather dependent)
24-Sep Stay Fussen Hotel Fantasia - Train Interlaken-Konstanz 3.5hr, rent car; Konstanz-Fussen 2.5hr arr@5pm
25-Sep Stay Fussen - Neuschwanstein (exterior only); Mary's Bridge; Hohenschwangau tour; any suggestions for other areas to explore?
26-Sep Stay Munich Hotel am Viktualienmarkt – Fussen-Munich 1.5hr arr@10am; Oktoberfest
27-Sep Stay Rothenburg Hotel Spitzweg – via Dachau, Regensburg
28-Sep Stay Rothenburg - explore Rothenburg; Bamberg, Wurzburg
29-Sep Stay Bacharach Hotel Altkolnischer – drive 2.5hr arr@1pm, explore Bacharach
30-Sep Stay Bacharach – Rhine cruise, take train to start cruise in Bingen, travel north
1-Oct Visit Burg Eltz; Bacharach-Burg Eltz 3 hrs.; Burg Eltz-Dusseldorf 2 hrs.; Dusseldorf- London - Easyjet 8:45pm - 9:10pm stay at airport
2-Oct LGW-TPA 12:00pm - 4:25pm