If we choose to spend one night in the Black Forest between Freiburg and Cochem what would be a picturesque place to stop. Small village not big city?

Also, since giving up the Lake Geneva area, where would we be seeing rolling valleys and hearing cowbells��

<i>where would we be seeing rolling valleys and hearing cowbells��</i>

in northern Switzerland:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/mksfca/4206262333

The poster child for rolling valleys and cowbells is the Emmental where the famous Swiss cheese by that name comes from. And while you're there, go see them demonstrate how they make it - see www.emmentaler-schaukaeserei.ch/de/home.html (only in German at the moment, but copy the text into Google Translate)

"...If we choose to spend one night in the Black Forest between Freiburg and Cochem what would be a picturesque place to stop. Small village not big city?..."

Waldbronn! Not quite halfway between Freiburg and Cochem. Still in the Schwarzwald region - the northern parts thereof, not too far off the main drag but small and pretty enough to qualify, check it out. The municipal website is only in German, but - again - Google Translate will come to the rescue.

http://www.waldbronn.de

I see more sense in
Zurich - Lucerne - Wenge - Montreux - Mosel - Rothenberg - Munich

I would definitely go by bus in most longer trips, more relaxed and you can see around. If you visit small places like Waldbronn, Rothenburg ob den Tauber, Heidelberg, Darmstadt, etc is enough only one day and as side trips as you say.

If I understand you well, Cheshire, you suggest the following:
ZRH - Lucerne - Berne - Lucerne - Meiringen - Wengen - Gstaad - Montreux - Berne - Zürich by train,
Zurich - Karlsruhe by bus,
side trips to Waldbronn and Heidelberg,
Karlsruhe - Frankfurt - Trier by bus,
Koblenz - Frankfurt - Wuerzburg by bus,
side trip to Rothenburg ob der Tauber,
Wuerzburg - Munich by bus.

All that would be much more complicated and much more time consuming than anything posted above.

And I don't understand why a bus ride should be more relaxing than a train ride.

That all sounds way too complicated. I think I like my last itinerary that you all helped with! Now I'm just wondering if we should cross the border a little more to the east and drive west to Gengenbacht for the night before heading to the Mosel, taking more advantage of the Black Forest. We were talking about picking up the car in Freiburg and then heading north. Any thoughts?

Sure, why not - you'll just drive a bit more the next day than if you stopped for the night at Waldbronn, but it's totally doable. At that stage it doesn't really matter much where you stop to sleep, as long as you think you'll like it. You have your wheels and you'll get to the Mosel region no problem. The earlier you stop, the more time you have to walk around and enjoy the place where you stopped, and that's a good thing.

HI Soods! What I meant was:

*Lucerne - from here visit Rothenburg (if you meant this one), Wengen, Meiringen or/and Interlaken (For Interlaken I recomend the Golden Pass)

*Bern - from here visit Thun, Gstaadt, Montreux and/or Vevey

*Karlsruhe - from here visit Waldbronn and/or Heidelberg

*Mosel Verbandsgemeinde Cochem - from here visit Trier and/or Koblenz

*Frankfurt - from here visit Würzburg and/or Rothenburg ob den Tauber (if you meant this one)

*München - from here visit Salzburg and/or Schwangau

Times:
*Zürich Airport - Lucern 50min
*Lucerne - Bern 1:40hr
*Bern - Karlsruhe 3hrs
*Karlsruhe - Mosel vC 3hrs
*Mosel vC - Frankfurt 2:30hrs
*Frankfurt - München 3:30hrs

I would take those cities as my backbone and from there plan where I really want to go and plan the days accordingly. Places as small as Rothenburg ob den Tauber or with not as much to see as Karlsruhe or where everything there is to see is all together in one place like Heidelberg Altstadt don't require the whole day.

Maybe because I'm a student and I love to travel I prefer the bus since it's cheaper, but sometimes is faster than the train, plus the less people (sometimes less than half the capacity), I dont have to go around the train to find a free place just to get moved the next minute because someone has my seat assigned for that tram of the trip. I can drive but I don't like it because I like to watch through the window and I always arrive to a Central Station so I have good and fast connection to wherever I'm going.

For the 1st part of the trip there's also the Swiss Pass option where for some days you can use waterway, rail and road transport including the Poschi's (Suisse Carpostal). Also for there's the Eurolines 15day pass (personal or for family) that you can use through all their network of Bus Lines.

Whatever you decide I wish you an awesome trip and happy holidays!!

"Maybe because I'm a student and I love to travel I prefer the bus since it's cheaper, but sometimes is faster than the train, plus the less people (sometimes less than half the capacity), I dont have to go around the train to find a free place just to get moved the next minute because someone has my seat assigned for that tram of the trip. I can drive but I don't like it because I like to watch through the window and I always arrive to a Central Station so I have good and fast connection to wherever I'm going."

I thought to have shown above that there are just no suitable buses for the itinerary planned by soods. In Switzerland, there are no domestic intercity buses at all.

As to the train journey times, the Swis timetable shows what follows:
ZRH (airport) - Lucerne: 62 to 72 min
Lucerne - Berne: 60 min
Bern - Karlsruhe: 2 hrs 45 min