Hello Fodorites,

So I have this webpage which shows all the routes and schedules of a bus company that services parts of Tuscany around Siena.
http://www.trainspa.it/EXTRAURBANO.htm

Let's say we wanted to go from Chiusi to Montepulciano, which we do, I can look down and find route F_T4 which has this schedule:
http://www.trainspa.it/EXTRAURBANO/F_T4R.pdf

My questions center on the "Validità/Frequenza" line on the schedule. It looks like some times run in summer, some in winter and some during school times. Presumably the others are year round, correct? What is 'summer' and what is 'winter', actual calendar dates? We will be there in September.

Also what does the two hammer symbol mean? There are a lot of those.

Another one is the cross on the 9:25 departure on page 2. Does that mean it runs on Sunday?

How about this much shorter schedule, if we want to go to Pienza from Monetpulciano:
http://www.trainspa.it/EXTRAURBANO/113A.pdf

Looks like we have 3 options, but what do GIO and VEN mean?

Thanks!

Here is the part of the site that is "the legend"

http://www.trainspa.it/legenda.pdf

The two little hammers mean every working day (no Sundays).

The cross means Sunday service as well.

I'm not sure what counts as summer and winter when it comes to September in that region. I would simply ask your hotel as you prepare to go, and look back at the schedule closer to your departure date.

I also wouldn't assume anything about an Italian bus schedule. So I don't know if you can safely assumed "all year round" unless otherwise indicated. It might mean Spring/Fall.

Finally, I would interpret GIO to mean Giovedi (Thursday) and VEN to mean Venerdi (Friday).

"Summer" and "Winter" are often tied to the school schedules, i.e. Winter starts from the beginning of the school calendar in September, and ends in mid-June. Check on the main web pages for this operator if they define "summer" and "winter" differently.

The "hammer and sickle" or "two hammer" symbol means work days: i.e. Monday through Saturday.

The "cross" symbol means Sundays only.

"GIO" means "Thursday only"
"VEN" means "Friday only"

Continue to research schedules between Montepulciano and Pienza. I'm sure you'll find more buses from Monday through Saturday.

Thanks very much! I was looking for a legend but missed it...

Really appreciate the help.

> Continue to research schedules between Montepulciano and Pienza.
> I'm sure you'll find more buses from Monday through Saturday.

Yes indeed. The Siena bus stops in Pienza. There are probably others but even if not this will be fine.
http://www.trainspa.it/EXTRAURBANO/112R.pdf

Thanks again!

Siena Mobilita has all the schedules for the region.

http://www.sienamobilita.it/EN/index.html

There aren't all that many buses between the two and the times aren't always convenient.

Note that there are no buses on Sunday between Montepulciano and Pienza.

Thanks. We arrive at Montepulciano on a Monday and depart on Saturday, so we'll be fine from Sunday bus schedule standpoint.

The timetable search page on that Siena Mobilita page is very useful, thanks for that. Looks to be a 9:02 departure and returns at 15:25 and 16:45 which would be fine for a day trip. I also understand it is a 3-4 hour walk through the countryside if we chose to return that way!

Looking forward to it.

I don't think it would take that long. Try using the pedestrian feature on either mappy.com or viamichelin.com and see what it says.

You really should consider renting a car for a few days. The 15:25 bus might be packed with school students depending on when you are traveling.

I live in Italy and take buses with school students all the time. It's not worth renting a car to avoid them.

Regarding a 3-4 hour walk in September in Tuscany -- in can be very hot with little or no shade, no sidewalk or shoulders to speak of on the roads, plenty of zooming traffic, not advisable after dark at all. If you miss that 16:45 bus, you can try walking until it starts to get dark, but if you haven't reached your destination, stop in the nearest bar or b&b and get somebody to fetch you a taxi.

>>>>I live in Italy and take buses with school students all the time. It's not worth renting a car to avoid them.<<<

I think he said they are spending a week in Montepulciano. A car is a good idea at least for a few days instead of trying to get around to hill towns by bus.

I have "done" the hill towns by bus (years ago). It was a laborious and uncertain process (nothing whatsoever to do with school students), and I'd never do it again. If you're going to be there for a week, rent a car. It makes all the difference in the world.

I have also "done" the hill towns by bus including WITH school students. They are best avoided especially the bus station in Montepulciano which will be swamped with about 100 hundred middle school/high school students after lunch. They will hang out in the station for an hour or two waiting on their buses. They completely overtake the station and are very loud and flit from table to table. They will occupy all seats on the buses and will not offer a seat to an adult.

No comment.

I thought Nelson sounded familiar, and I looked up his initial postings, where he wrote:

"The question is where for those 6 nights? We will not have a car and we enjoy going to one place and staying for a longer time rather than being in transit a lot. We then walk or use buses or trains to get around. Sometimes we’ll take a bus out of town for several miles and then walk back, that kind of thing. Obviously we are not going to see a lot of different places. Some of you might think that plan insane, but it works for us."

Works for me. I don't think it's crazy. I live in Italy, however, so my sanity may be suspect. I even like Italian middle schoolers. Flitting.

Anyway, if you change your mind once you get there, Nelson, you can rent a car in Chiusi or Siena.

I'm not surprised the car issue came up again. Amazing you were able to dig up that old thread, zeppole! In another thread I mentioned that I have a long commute by car in my daily life, and sitting in a car is one of the last things I want to do while on holiday. I understand there is a freedom of sorts that comes with the car, but conversely there is a hassle factor as well.

Still, we have rented a car in places where it was a real necessity, like the Isle of Skye or Tasmania, and very successfully made do without in the Cotswolds where people told us we should get one. We know our style and can happily spend many hours visiting something that most people "do" in 15 minutes.

Part of this bus research was keep open the car question. I'm not dogmatically saying "I refuse to get a car", but at the moment the bus system seems like it will be adequate. Being packed on a bus with a bunch of middle schoolers for a _short_ ride sounds like it could be ... fun! We have been packed in the back of an open truck with a bunch of Quechua Indians in Peru and they, slyly and cleverly, make sure the tourists have to stand.

The mappy and viamichelin sites are new to me. Thanks, very useful. Viamichelin says its a 3 1/2 hour walk.

The reason everyone suggests a car is you will want to visit some of the small hill towns in the area and most won't have any bus service. Many are connected by unpaved roads (white roads) so the driving is not difficult and views are fantastic. Tuscany is all about the little back roads and towns.

I ran into a group of hikers (Pienza to Montepulciano) on the bus. It poured rain that day so they were busing instead of hiking.

Thanks kybourbon. Understand about the back roads and towns, our tradeoff without a car. If it rains our strategy will probably be to just go drink wine and forget about hiking!

Appreciate all the thoughts and suggestions. When we return in Septemeber I'll post an update of what we actually did and how it worked out.

Good strategy! I might be there in September also.