My only other visit to the Berner Oberland was in 1993 (yes, that long ago, holy smokes).

I had hoped for a repeat visit in June 2008 but we changed our plans midstream. Looks like 2010 will be the year. I'll be taking my Mom and Dad. They are in good health although my Dad's bum knee is acting up again so he definitely won't be going on hikes - light walking should be OK though although I don't want to overdo it with him. So far I'm not planning on having a car although nothing is set in stone.

Based on my research in 2008 I chose Grindelwald as a base - I think because of the Jungfraujoch train if I'm not mistaken - it seemed pretty convenient from there. We don't need to stay on the lake although a boat cruise would be nice one day.

Q1: Would Wengen or Muerren be a better choice, or even Interlaken? This is keeping in mind my Dad's need to avoid long walks/find things to do right in town/easy access to cable cars or trains.

Q2: If we have rainy or just very foggy days, what other options do we have? I understand Lucerne isn't terribly far away?

We will be coming from Venice (and before that several nights on Lake Como). I haven't made up my mind yet to give Venice 5 nights or 4 nights which would give us an extra day in the BO. I had hoped to visit Burano this time and even Verona which is why five nights (four full days) there might be nice. That means only three nights (and two full days) in the BO. I feel that is really short-shrifting this part of the trip however.

Q3: knowing full well that longer is better, would a late afternoon train arrival from Venice three nights before moving on to Zurich/ the flight home (IE 2.5 days max in the BO) be entirely too short? This assumes a Jungfraujoch train ride, perhaps a boat ride, light hiking (me), a little shopping/dining al fresco etc.

Q4: I'm guessing the train to Zurich is pretty short - it can't be much more than two hours if that. What would be your top thing to do with only an afternoon to wander in Zurich? The flight the next AM would have us leave for the airport after breakfast. My only other visit to Zurich was just for a hotel the night before a flight home - so I have no frame of reference yet. No hotel yet although I'd find something central.

Thanks for any advice. I've got old research to resurrect and I've already started reading here on fodors again for this part of the trip.

Hi Ingo!

If we have rainy or just very foggy days, what other options do we have? I understand Lucerne isn't terribly far away?>

Well yes Lucerne and its lovely lake is just a few hours by rail going over the scenic Brunig Pass route - even quicker via mainlines via Bern -Lucerne IMO is one of Europe's most beautiful cities - bisected by a roaring river bridged by two mega famous covered wooden bridges. \

And Bern is even closer - about 30 mins from Interlaken- one of Europe's most beautiful cities as well IMO and one often overlooked by tourists stampeding to the Berner Oberland - the Jungfrau Region - a good wet weather city as many of its sidewalks are covered by archways - and of course the famous Bear (Bern=bear i guess) Pit by the fast-flowing Aare River.

If coming from Italy and going to the Berner Oberland and towns like Murren, Wengen, Grindelwald by train then by all means investigate the bargain IMO Swiss Pass, which covers not only most trains (except those trains or aerial cable cars only going to mountain tops) - those are 50% off - but pretty much everything else that moves in Switzerland, except cows, is covered in full by the pass - city trams and buses, postal buses in the countryside - lake boats on many lakes like the two lakes the bookend Interlaken - Lake Thun and Lake Brienz and Lake Lucerne, Lake Zurich, Lake Como, Lake Geneva, etc. A 4-consecutive-day pass would cover all your travels outlined, including in full to Wengen, Grindelwald, Murren - and on days with poor weather to places like Lucerne. I've had dozens of Swiss Passes and love them - no waits in line - just hop on - some fab sites about rail travel in Switzerland - www.swisstravelsystem.com - with links to Swiss Federal Railways to compare ordinary fares with pass prices (Saverpass is cheaper - for two to five persons traveling on one pass); www.budgeteuropetravel.com; www.ricksteves.com; www.seat61.com.

Murren is on the wrong side of the valley if Jungfraujoch is the objective. Murren is convenient for Schilthorn, but Wengen is an easier starting point for Jungfraujoch.

Even if you have a car, it is not useful once you get to BO to travel between sites unless you stay at the valley floor.

One place to go on a low visibility day in BO is Trummelbach falls. There is a elevator to take you to the top of the falls, but still requires walking up and down the path. The falls are accessible by car.

Hi flygirl,

I really like the car-free villages, Wengen and Mürren, and would always choose to stay in one of them. This is particularly true for the summertime, when tour busses really come out in force. Because Grindelwald is as high as they can go -- that's where they go! I would give Grindelwald another thought.

I believe that Luzern is too far to go for a day-trip (I limit my travel to two hours in each direction, or else the train ride itself dominates my memories). There are so many wonderful alternatives closer, such as Bern as Palenque noted above. Also think about Thun, which is called the "untouristed Luzern" because it is so similar -- and it also has a castle. Also think about Spiez, which also has a small castle and a really lovely, small, flower-decked harbor. There is also a castle in Oberhofen on Lake Thun. Or you can visit the town of Brienz on Lake Brienz as well as the open-air museum at Ballenberg on Lake Brienz.

The trip to Zürich actually takes 3h30 from the Jungfrau region; you can verify the schedules at the Swiss rail site

www.rail.ch

You'll have a great time, I'm sure.

s

Hi

Great food for thought, thanks!

Looks like flying home from Geneva or Zurich is roughly the same, time-wise from the BO. I wish I had more than the afternoon before flying home...

Sounds like Wengen would be a good base to choose, assuming the Jungfraujoch train ride. I'd like to do that - any reason to choose the Schilthorn over that? I read on the Jungfrau train website that anyone who has had a stroke should not go on this train. Many years ago my Dad had a few TIAs (I hope I got that right - kind of like mini strokes) which didn't seem to affect anything. It turned out to be that his high blood pressure meds needed to be adjusted. I know that HBP is also a concern on these high trains, but his meds seem to be fine now.

I can't remember why I ultimately chose Grindelwald as the base for 2008 (which didn't occur...). If we stay in Wengen, should we at least visit Grindelwald? Thun and Spiez sound really lovely and we'd have a nice lunch on the lake.

Thanks again!

Hi again,

Oh yes, you can easily visit Grindelwald. You can go up to the Jungfraujoch from Wengen, then come down to Grindelwald and then back to Wengen either via cable car (Männlichen) or via train (Lauterbrunnen).

Here's a link to a map that should help:

http://www.myjungfrau.ch/de/page.cfm/pano_jrm_wi

Have fun!

s

<If we stay in Wengen, should we at least visit Grindelwald? Thun and Spiez sound really lovely and we'd have a nice lunch on the lake>

By all means IMO - the Grindelwald amphitheatre presents a sweeping vista of ice-girdled peaks - really a huge amphitheatre with tiny mountain-climbing trains running around - chairlifts and aerial cableways in view as well

Wengen is a sweet remote retreat with fab vistas as well but i think those from Grindelwald are the finest around. From Wengen a neat way to Grindelwald would be to hop the cable way up to the Mannlichen - a celebrated viewpoint - perhaps the most celebrated vista in the area - seeing the lakes far below and both the Lauterbrunnen and Grindelwald valleys

then do the short and sweet and flat few-mile walk to Kleine Schiedegg and hop the train from there down to Grindelwald or from Mannlichen take a really long cable car ride right to Grindelwald.

There are other routes as well so you can come back a different way.

Thanks again - Swanda, that is a great map!

Palenque, I also enjoyed your advice on this and other threads. I'm in good hands here with the fodorite experts. Greg, thanks for the tip on the Falls.

Reading TravMimi's question and answers, now I am torn again. I think we'd enjoy a "village" atmosphere, especially if we extend this to 4 nights in the BO versus three nights. Although to be fair when we stayed in the Dolomites in 2008 there was NO village at all (Bulla/Pufels). It was an utter slice of heaven up there at the Uhrerhof Deur hotel. We drove down to Ortisei for dinner or a wander and in general had so much going on it didn't matter as much.

I take it the trains make going from village to village very easy peasy, and they are running at least until dark in June? Maybe I've just answered my own question.

- Ziplining over to flygirl's thread -
I think you should stay in Grindelwald. Looks like there's a lot to see there if your parents decide to spend a day at your base wandering, and just relaxing. They probably would enjoy being in a town as opposed to a village.

In reading both of our threads, there is no easy answer!

I'd suspect however that any village we choose in that general area will seem like a slice of heaven and it will be just fine.

If the trains are plentiful and go late enough (ie until dark) then I imagine it won't make a huge difference.

Looks like it will be Wengen. Now, to find a hotel for 3-4 nights... Thanks everyone! I'll be writing up a sort of itinerary this weekend. Mostly I want to find flat/short hikes (walks) which would be OK for my Dad.

Hi
It has been awhile for us but we stayed in Murren twice in 1997 and 2003 at the Hotel Alpenruh. It was great in the car free town with bakeries and grocery stores. We took the cable car up from Lauterbrunen and the hotel must be about 50 feet from the cable station. The Alpenruh (at least then) also owned the Piz Gloria (the restaurant atop the Schlithorn) and you could exchange your breakfast at the hotel for the revolving restaurant atop the mountain. We did do the Jungfraujoch from there. We actually followed Rick Steves suggestions and took the lift up to Mannlichen then hiked level or slight decline for about 20 minutes (on a beautiful day) had lunch and then went the rest of the way. Murren also had a sports center for a rainy day option of swimming and stuff (we were fortunate in 2003 - 3 beautiful days). It was hard to get the guys to leave the rooms with the view of the Jungfrau and you could sit out on the balcony and enjoy!
Where ever you end up, the area is gorgeous! Have a wonderful trip!

Murren is fantastic but it is rather remote from other places in the Jungfrau Region and for doing day trips to say Bern or doing the lake boats, etc since it takes so long to get down even to Lauterbrunnen. It is a great base for folks who plan to stay mainly in the Murren area - especially for hikers with all the trails going up from town and along the cliff's edge to Grutschalp, etc.
But if looking to day trip to say Grindelwald, the Jungfrau it is not nearly as conviently located for that purposes. Wengen, just a few-minute train ride down to Lauterbrunnen is much better situated for day trips - with the Mannlichen chairlift and trains direct to Kleine Scheidegg (for Jungfraubahn trains).

In reality it does not matter where you stay in the Berner Oberland - everyplace i've been to - all of them - are fantastic - you just cannot go wrong.

Hello flygirl

There are so many lovely walks you and your dad can take. One favorite is the Mannlichen to Kleine Scheidegg trail, which takes about 1 1/2 hrs or so (longer for me as I take lots of photos and stop to just "soak it all in"). Make a whole day of it, starting in Wengen by walking thru the village; take the tram up to Mannlichen; rest stop at the Mannlichen restaurant for some hot chocolate or whatever, and then check out the spectacular views of the Lauterbrunnen Valley at the overlook; then begin the trail to Kleine Scheidegg. You should reach KS in time for a late lunch before taking the train back to Wengen. You'll be back in Wengen just in time for your dad to take an afternoon nap, while you perhaps sit on your balcony with a nice glass of wine. Lovely, lovely!!

A few years ago, I took my parents (then 75 and 82) to Switzerland (Berner Oberland and also Zermatt), their first trip overseas (well, other than when my Dad was in Germany & France during the war). In Grindelwald, we stayed in a lovely chalet apartment.

At that time, their "only" worries were bad knees, arthritic joints and back, altitude sickness, and diet restrictions. Sheesh, it's a wonder they even agreed to go!

They had the time of their lives! Jungfraujoch, Schilthorn, Trummelbach Falls (yes, all those stairs), paddle steamer dinner cruise on Lake Luzern, the alpine slide in Grindelwald, hiking the "flat" trails, all sorts of cable cars, gondolas, trains, etc. And that's just in the BO.

My father does not crack a smile very often, but I'll never forget our visit to the ice cave and glacier walk at the Jungfraujoch. As we readied to take the train back down the hill, his words to me echo even today, "This was the best day of my life."

Happy travels!

swisshiker - well said - you should work for the Jungfrau Region tourist promotion board! I echo your sentiments for the area - always a thrill when i get off the train in Interlaken - the atmosphere even down there - hikers and climbers will full regalia heading for the hills, etc.

This doesn't answer your main question...but I have to say that Burano, Italy is so adorable! I cannot resist the bright colors and love it far more than the main island of Venice. It was the highlight of my trip to Venice...I don't think you should miss it.

I'm thinking of staying in Wengen too (already stayed in Lauterbrunnen the last time, and loved the location, but would like to try somewhere new). Wengen seems to be centrally located for all you might do so I agree with your choice - we went through Wengen for just about every place we visited except the Schilthorn. I can't imagine having to start in Murren for every activity. It would just take too long. Please let us know which hotel you choose. I'll be looking for one in the coming year for next summer.

kwren makes a really salient point IMO about Wengen being a much better and convenient base for day trips - you have the gondola to The Mannlichen to do the lovely Mannlichen-Kleiene Scheidegg ridge walk or to take the cableway Mannlichen to Grindelwald - trains from Wengen to Kleine Scheidegg for the Jungfraujoch - trains to Lauterbrunnen for Murren and Schilthorn and Interlaken, etc.