Question about royalty titles
Mar 25th, 2005, 01:28 PM
#8
As I understand it, the Grimaldis were Genoese princes when Monaco was part of the various Italian states prior to unification of Italy (mid-19th Century.) When France became the sovereignty controlling Monaco (King and Emperor = Sovereigns, Princes = not) they let Monaco keep its (Italian) princes, down to this day.
Monaco's independence is limited by treaties with France, so the Grimaldis (Prince Rainier et al) are still not sovereigns, much as Charles is Prince of Wales, not King of Wales.
Monaco's independence is limited by treaties with France, so the Grimaldis (Prince Rainier et al) are still not sovereigns, much as Charles is Prince of Wales, not King of Wales.
Mar 25th, 2005, 01:53 PM
#9
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Not really that simple.
Heads of State in constitutional monarchies are called Kings (or, since the days of the greatest English-speaker ever, Elizabeth 1, almost as often Queens). But Europe's monarchical microstates (Lichtenstein, Luxembourg, Monaco, Andorra, the Vatican, the Isle of Man and the individual Channel Isles. And, yes, I know Andorra is technically a constitutional dyarchy) all give their Heads of State titles other than King or Queen.
The reason for each of these widely varying titles (often, as in 'Lord of Man', close to weird) differs, and each is the result of these states' very different histories. There is no cosistent explanation for why a monarchy (or dyarchy) isn't always a kingdom.
Heads of State in constitutional monarchies are called Kings (or, since the days of the greatest English-speaker ever, Elizabeth 1, almost as often Queens). But Europe's monarchical microstates (Lichtenstein, Luxembourg, Monaco, Andorra, the Vatican, the Isle of Man and the individual Channel Isles. And, yes, I know Andorra is technically a constitutional dyarchy) all give their Heads of State titles other than King or Queen.
The reason for each of these widely varying titles (often, as in 'Lord of Man', close to weird) differs, and each is the result of these states' very different histories. There is no cosistent explanation for why a monarchy (or dyarchy) isn't always a kingdom.
Mar 25th, 2005, 02:26 PM
#12
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Do I remember correctly that in the Channel Islands the Queen's title is "Duke" (as in Duke of Normandy) - not "Duchess," since the Channel Islands are French territory (in the sense that the King of France was the feudal suzerain of the Duke of Normandy) and accordingly governed by Salic law, such that the title (in theory) cannot pass in the female line? Not merely "close to weird," I should say.
Mar 25th, 2005, 05:16 PM
#13
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I think Monaco being a Principality has something to do with the fact that it's approximately the size of Centrla Park.
In the beginning - rulers called themselves whatever they wanted - but no one would take seriously a "king" with a country the size of a small farm.
Before Germany and Italy unified in the 19th century many of the local rulers of the various small areas (although much bigger then Monaco generally) - were also called Princes or even Dukes - or bishops if the church still owned the territory.
In the beginning - rulers called themselves whatever they wanted - but no one would take seriously a "king" with a country the size of a small farm.
Before Germany and Italy unified in the 19th century many of the local rulers of the various small areas (although much bigger then Monaco generally) - were also called Princes or even Dukes - or bishops if the church still owned the territory.
Mar 25th, 2005, 06:31 PM
#15
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To make matters even more confusing, sometimes a duke is of a higher rank than a prince. For example, the Duke of Kent is of a higher rank than his brother, Prince Michael of Kent. This is because the Duke of Kent is the head of the Duchy of Kent. Also, Fergie is the Duchess of York, whilst her children are the Princess Beatrice and Princess Eugenie of York. Fergie is of a higher rank than her children. (Well, not now really because she lost her HRH in the divorce. HRH status gives people rank over those without it. For example, when Diana, Princess of Wales, lost her HRH, she had to curtsy to HRH Princess Michael of Kent, according to protocol.)
We Brits are a sorry lot. No wonder we aren't a SUPERPOWER. We are too busy bowing and curtsying.
We Brits are a sorry lot. No wonder we aren't a SUPERPOWER. We are too busy bowing and curtsying.
