Potenza Picena
Jan 16th, 2006, 09:08 AM
#2
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From Rome, it's 4.5 to 6 hours by train, with one or two changes.
From Assisi, it's around 3.5 hours, with at least two changes.
You can check it out at
www.trenitalia.com
From Assisi, it's around 3.5 hours, with at least two changes.
You can check it out at
www.trenitalia.com
Jan 16th, 2006, 09:21 AM
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Is that the same as Picerno, which is in the province of Potenza in the region of Basilicata? I think maybe it used to be called "Potenza picena." (There's also a comune called Potenza Picena in Le Marche, but I assume you can't mean that.)
Jan 16th, 2006, 09:35 AM
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Eloise, did you really find this place in BASILICATA? It doesn't sound possible that it would be a shorter ride from Assisi than from Rome, since Basilicata is quite south of Rome and far from Assisi. I think you must've found information re going to the Potenza Picena in the province of Macerata in Le Marche, not in Basilicata.
I can't even find a Potenza Picena in Basilicata. Obviously there's the city of Potenza, which is the capital of the province of Potenza, one of the two provinces in Basilicata.
P.S. I'm not at all sure about what I said above about Picerno possibly previously being called Potenza Picena. Forget that.
Verocross: Where exactly are you going? Potenza, or Potenza Picena? If the latter, are you SURE of the region? Have you written to the town, and if so, which two capital letters appear in parentheses after the name of the town on its address?
I can't even find a Potenza Picena in Basilicata. Obviously there's the city of Potenza, which is the capital of the province of Potenza, one of the two provinces in Basilicata.
P.S. I'm not at all sure about what I said above about Picerno possibly previously being called Potenza Picena. Forget that.
Verocross: Where exactly are you going? Potenza, or Potenza Picena? If the latter, are you SURE of the region? Have you written to the town, and if so, which two capital letters appear in parentheses after the name of the town on its address?
Jan 16th, 2006, 09:51 AM
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Cmt:
I just presumed that Verocross knew the correct name of the town s/he wanted to go to and entered it at trenitalia.
Having in the meantime gone to mappy.com, I see that it is in Le Marche, not in Basilicata.
I hope Verocross gets back to you with details...
I just presumed that Verocross knew the correct name of the town s/he wanted to go to and entered it at trenitalia.
Having in the meantime gone to mappy.com, I see that it is in Le Marche, not in Basilicata.
I hope Verocross gets back to you with details...
Jan 16th, 2006, 10:25 AM
#6
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The place I want to go is called POTENZA PICENA, but now I don't know if it's in Basilicata!!
This is the town my nonno was born (grandpa). Me and my family only know that he was born in Potenza Picena. According to you guys there may be another place in Italy called Potenza.
I'm confused now, but I need your help on this more than ever.
Veronica
This is the town my nonno was born (grandpa). Me and my family only know that he was born in Potenza Picena. According to you guys there may be another place in Italy called Potenza.
I'm confused now, but I need your help on this more than ever.
Veronica
Jan 16th, 2006, 10:40 AM
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It would be more common for an immigrant to be from Basilicata, which was a poor region in the south. Potenza is the largest city in Basilicata and also the name of one of the two provinces in the region. (The other one is Matera.)
The only town I found called Potenza Picena is in the province of Macerata, which is in the region of Le Marche, in east-central Italy. They are totally different places, and not at all close by.
Did you correspond with any town officials, like maybe the person in charge of birth and date records? If so, look at the address on the envelope or letterhead, and look for two capital letters in parentheses after the name of the town.
If you haven't yet corresponded with the town, you really should before you go. (If it's in Basilicata, most likely the person replying can tell you how to get to the town. Many people are generally so hospitable in Basilicata. That's not to say they wouldn't be in Le Marche as well, but I jsut found Basilicata really exceptional that way.)
You really have to find out which place it is. Where did you hear the name Potenza Picena? Is it something you vaguely remember from long ago, or did someone tell you recently? do you have any relatives still living who were born there? Or do the children of the immigrant generation know where their parents were born?
Other possible clues/longshots: Can you find out what some dialect words were that your grandfather spoke? Or, what are some of the foods that your grandparents cooked or ate? Maybe we can guess from those clues.
The only town I found called Potenza Picena is in the province of Macerata, which is in the region of Le Marche, in east-central Italy. They are totally different places, and not at all close by.
Did you correspond with any town officials, like maybe the person in charge of birth and date records? If so, look at the address on the envelope or letterhead, and look for two capital letters in parentheses after the name of the town.
If you haven't yet corresponded with the town, you really should before you go. (If it's in Basilicata, most likely the person replying can tell you how to get to the town. Many people are generally so hospitable in Basilicata. That's not to say they wouldn't be in Le Marche as well, but I jsut found Basilicata really exceptional that way.)
You really have to find out which place it is. Where did you hear the name Potenza Picena? Is it something you vaguely remember from long ago, or did someone tell you recently? do you have any relatives still living who were born there? Or do the children of the immigrant generation know where their parents were born?
Other possible clues/longshots: Can you find out what some dialect words were that your grandfather spoke? Or, what are some of the foods that your grandparents cooked or ate? Maybe we can guess from those clues.
Jan 16th, 2006, 10:55 AM
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Verocross -
Do you have anything in writing about your grandfather's birthplace? Or do you know whether it was a town or more a village?
As a very broad, general rule, there was more emigration from the southern parts of Italy - such as Basilicata - than from the more northern parts - such as Le Marche.
But Potenza Picena is definitely in Le Marche, while the town in Basilicata, as Cmt has written, is Potenza.
Potenza is a town; Potenza Picena is more of a village.
This page
http://www.comune.potenza-picena.mc....sp?cod_org=C43
gives you the population of Potenza Picena between 1861 and 1997: only 6,605 in 1861 and only 14,014 in 1997.
Potenza in Basilicata, on the other hand, now has a population of 69,700, which makes it a much larger town.
On another thread, a poster told the story of how she wrote to the mayor of a small town (or village) in Sicily asking for information about her grandfather and, some time later, received a letter from him with information about her grandfather and about the town, which she then visited.
If you can find someone to write a letter for you in Italian, giving as much information as you have about your grandfather's date of birth, etc., you could send it to
Signore Sergio Paolucci
Sindaco
Municipio
Piazza Matteotti, 28
62018 Potenza Picena
Italy
and mention that you intend to visit in June, if they can find any information about your grandfather.
Good luck!
Do you have anything in writing about your grandfather's birthplace? Or do you know whether it was a town or more a village?
As a very broad, general rule, there was more emigration from the southern parts of Italy - such as Basilicata - than from the more northern parts - such as Le Marche.
But Potenza Picena is definitely in Le Marche, while the town in Basilicata, as Cmt has written, is Potenza.
Potenza is a town; Potenza Picena is more of a village.
This page
http://www.comune.potenza-picena.mc....sp?cod_org=C43
gives you the population of Potenza Picena between 1861 and 1997: only 6,605 in 1861 and only 14,014 in 1997.
Potenza in Basilicata, on the other hand, now has a population of 69,700, which makes it a much larger town.
On another thread, a poster told the story of how she wrote to the mayor of a small town (or village) in Sicily asking for information about her grandfather and, some time later, received a letter from him with information about her grandfather and about the town, which she then visited.
If you can find someone to write a letter for you in Italian, giving as much information as you have about your grandfather's date of birth, etc., you could send it to
Signore Sergio Paolucci
Sindaco
Municipio
Piazza Matteotti, 28
62018 Potenza Picena
Italy
and mention that you intend to visit in June, if they can find any information about your grandfather.
Good luck!
Jan 16th, 2006, 11:00 AM
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Cmt and I were obviously posting at the same time.
In a small place like Potenza Picena, I think you can write to the mayor, who will probably pass your letter on to the person who will actually look up the records.
Perhaps Cmt can come back and tell you what the person in charge of birth and death records is called and how to reach him/her.
In a small place like Potenza Picena, I think you can write to the mayor, who will probably pass your letter on to the person who will actually look up the records.
Perhaps Cmt can come back and tell you what the person in charge of birth and death records is called and how to reach him/her.
Jan 16th, 2006, 11:05 AM
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Hi everyone
After re doing my search I'm pretty sure that the POTENZA PICENA I was looking for is the one near Macerata, not the one in Basilicata.
To be sure, can you guys tell me if there's only ONE city called Potenza Picena in all Italy? What about the one in Basilicata? Is that town just called Potenza?
Thanks again
Verocross
After re doing my search I'm pretty sure that the POTENZA PICENA I was looking for is the one near Macerata, not the one in Basilicata.
To be sure, can you guys tell me if there's only ONE city called Potenza Picena in all Italy? What about the one in Basilicata? Is that town just called Potenza?
Thanks again
Verocross
Jan 16th, 2006, 12:02 PM
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Potenza is a major city in Basilicata(or at least major as far as cities in Basilicata go). It's the capital of the Province of Potenza. (The only other province in Basilicata is Matera.) But sometimes people from small towns in the province of Potenza might say they're from Potenza. I could not find a "Potenza Picena" in Basilicata.
Potenza Picena is a commune (not a village) in Le Marche. A comune is the smallest administrative/political unit in Italy. Then, smaller than that, there are also country villages and neighborhoods that don't have the administrative/political status of a comune, but are part of some comune. I suppose it is possible that there may have been some village or neighborhood by the name of "Potenza picena" that no longer exists. Like Eloise, I found only one Potenza Picena. That doesn't mean that once upon a time there might not have been another place by that name, but that is less likely. There was a lot more emigration from Basilicata than from Le Marche, but that doesn't mean that YOUR grandfather wasn't from LeMarche.
I'm not serious about geneaology, so I never wrote to the official in charge of birth and death records. (I forogt what the official is called, but can look it up if you need it.) I just wrote to the mayor. (I've written these letters for other people too, and except in one instance, we have always received interesting, friendly responses.) So unless you're doing serious genealogical research and want specific factual guidance in that area, rather than a lot of chitchat about the town and how to get there and events of interest, I think when dealing with a small town, writing to the mayor is a good idea. The mayor will then probably give your letter to an appropriate person--often it will be the person in charge of birth and death records.
When i wrote to "my" little town in Sicily, I got a nice letter back from the person in charge of the birth and death records who happened to be a cousin of mine! He gave me his phone # and several years later when I went to visit the town, I spent two full days with him. (I chose to stay at an agriturismo just outside of town, but we spent most of both days doing things together.)
The first time I wrote to "my" little town in Basilicata I received a wonderful pile of literature from the mayor about a fascinating traditional 4-day festival in the town that combines ancient pre-Christian tree cult rituals with a traditional Catholic patron saint celebration. Several years later I decided to visit the town. i wrote again, asking whether I might have any relatives in town and asking how to get there by public transportation. This time I receive a reply from the birth-and-death guy, who had researched it for me. He gave me the name and address of a 5th cousin who lived in town, and I wrote to him several months alter, just before my trip. Then, when I visited the town just in time to see that festival I'd learned about from the package the mayor had sent me, the nice man who'd done this research met me at my hotel when I arrived and introduced me to my cousin, as well as to some of his own cousins and friends, so wherever I wandered in town, there were people I recognized or people who were friends or cousins of people'd I'd met and who'd already heard about me.
Potenza Picena is a commune (not a village) in Le Marche. A comune is the smallest administrative/political unit in Italy. Then, smaller than that, there are also country villages and neighborhoods that don't have the administrative/political status of a comune, but are part of some comune. I suppose it is possible that there may have been some village or neighborhood by the name of "Potenza picena" that no longer exists. Like Eloise, I found only one Potenza Picena. That doesn't mean that once upon a time there might not have been another place by that name, but that is less likely. There was a lot more emigration from Basilicata than from Le Marche, but that doesn't mean that YOUR grandfather wasn't from LeMarche.
I'm not serious about geneaology, so I never wrote to the official in charge of birth and death records. (I forogt what the official is called, but can look it up if you need it.) I just wrote to the mayor. (I've written these letters for other people too, and except in one instance, we have always received interesting, friendly responses.) So unless you're doing serious genealogical research and want specific factual guidance in that area, rather than a lot of chitchat about the town and how to get there and events of interest, I think when dealing with a small town, writing to the mayor is a good idea. The mayor will then probably give your letter to an appropriate person--often it will be the person in charge of birth and death records.
When i wrote to "my" little town in Sicily, I got a nice letter back from the person in charge of the birth and death records who happened to be a cousin of mine! He gave me his phone # and several years later when I went to visit the town, I spent two full days with him. (I chose to stay at an agriturismo just outside of town, but we spent most of both days doing things together.)
The first time I wrote to "my" little town in Basilicata I received a wonderful pile of literature from the mayor about a fascinating traditional 4-day festival in the town that combines ancient pre-Christian tree cult rituals with a traditional Catholic patron saint celebration. Several years later I decided to visit the town. i wrote again, asking whether I might have any relatives in town and asking how to get there by public transportation. This time I receive a reply from the birth-and-death guy, who had researched it for me. He gave me the name and address of a 5th cousin who lived in town, and I wrote to him several months alter, just before my trip. Then, when I visited the town just in time to see that festival I'd learned about from the package the mayor had sent me, the nice man who'd done this research met me at my hotel when I arrived and introduced me to my cousin, as well as to some of his own cousins and friends, so wherever I wandered in town, there were people I recognized or people who were friends or cousins of people'd I'd met and who'd already heard about me.
Jan 16th, 2006, 12:09 PM
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Cmt:
I disagree with you on one small point:
A "comune" is NOT the smallest administrative unit in Italy. Venice is a "Comune"; Rome is a "Comune." The smallest unit is, I think, a "frazione," and it does not have a mayor or a town council, etc.
I disagree with you on one small point:
A "comune" is NOT the smallest administrative unit in Italy. Venice is a "Comune"; Rome is a "Comune." The smallest unit is, I think, a "frazione," and it does not have a mayor or a town council, etc.
Jan 16th, 2006, 12:18 PM
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By administrative/political unit I meant a place that DOES have a mayor. I'm not sure how elese to define a "comune"--a municipality? the smallest unit with its own government maybe? (Some people here tend to grossly overuse the word "village" even to refer to towns in central Italy with a long history that were once independent republics! So that's why I like to distinguish between a comune and a village, even though I'm not sure how to define a comune.)
The only thing I can think of is that maybe there was once a rural village or a frazione of a larger town that was named Potenza Picena but that no longer exists. But I really think that's unlikely. Her grandfather was probably from the municipality by that name in Macerata province.
The only thing I can think of is that maybe there was once a rural village or a frazione of a larger town that was named Potenza Picena but that no longer exists. But I really think that's unlikely. Her grandfather was probably from the municipality by that name in Macerata province.
Jan 16th, 2006, 12:33 PM
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I agree, it looks like it is the one in Macerata.
I also agree that calling Siena or Amalfi a village is a ridiculous mistake that many people make. And I see your point about "comune." But to my mind, a place with 14,000 people that I heard about for the first time today qualifies as a village.
And I do rather wonder whether she bothered to read your and my notes about writing to the mayors...
I also agree that calling Siena or Amalfi a village is a ridiculous mistake that many people make. And I see your point about "comune." But to my mind, a place with 14,000 people that I heard about for the first time today qualifies as a village.
And I do rather wonder whether she bothered to read your and my notes about writing to the mayors...
Jan 16th, 2006, 12:38 PM
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I know what you mean about these small towns with a village feel. But I really think it would be good for some people (not talking about you) who give travel advice to get out of the habit of calling ancient towns--even former independent city-states--"villages" just because they're small. It is rather insulting and makes it sound like all they saw was the prettiness or "cuteness" or the place, with no appreciation for the history.
I need to find (or translate) a formal defintion of "comune."
I need to find (or translate) a formal defintion of "comune."
Jan 16th, 2006, 12:43 PM
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I think you've got it with "municipality"; at least that's what my online dictionary for Italian - www.wordreference.com - says. But I'm afraid it might be misleading in its own way: most people in North America would expect a municipality to have many more inhabitants than 14,000...
Jan 20th, 2006, 04:38 AM
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There are a lot of municipalities in the USA with smaller populations. But our history is so different here (our municilaities were not independent republics like some in northern and central Italy!)
I wonder what happened to the original poster. I guess she didn't read our suggestions re writing to the mayors, and since she didn't ask, I didn't look up the info re writing to the anagrafe office.
I wonder what happened to the original poster. I guess she didn't read our suggestions re writing to the mayors, and since she didn't ask, I didn't look up the info re writing to the anagrafe office.
