Political Correctness on Fodors

Old Aug 14th, 2004, 10:50 AM
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hsv
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Political Correctness on Fodors

I am stunned.
Yesterday night I started a thread on this forum expressing my thoughts on the great atmosphere of the Olympic Games Opening Ceremony. How I wished that the spirit of sportmanship, fairness and equality displayed by the atheletes in Greece would carry on to all people in the world. Thus providing us all an open-mindedness that would certainly make travel and understanding other cultures much more beneficial for everyone.

Amazingly such a thread obviously provoked a couple of comments the editors here thought worthwhile of deleting. At least that could be gathered from the remainder of the posts on that thread this morning.

However, the thread carried on through this afternoon, but has been deleted completely by now.

My point is, this was a travel related thread to the extent that opinions on what makes travel worthwhile were expressed along with a reference to a destination that currently is very attractive and will be even after the Games have ended.
Even if it provoked some controversial opinions, why get threads like this deleted ?
Obviously, I do not question the editor's rights to handle traffic on this forum in exactly the manner they want to, after all it is their forum. Thus, they undoubtedly are entitled to set the rules.

But, my feeling currently is that anything controversial gets deleted. Besides that I still do not understand how anybody in their right mind can oppose to the values of tolerance, peace, fairness and freedom, the latter certainly includes the freedom of speech which results in possibly controversy, but which also can help people to form their own opinion based on thoughts uttered by others.

Another thread was even asked to be removed by the OP. The OP had expressed his/her concern about the hurricane victims. This caused a few remarks by some other poster doubting that the hurricane damage in Florida was any bad.
Obviously that opinion could not be taken seriously, but why should a whole thread that was started well meaning be removed completely. Of course there will be opinions that are not only subjetively offensive but also objetively stupid. But that's no reason to close a whole thread, for heaven's sake! Let some people disqualify themselves! The majority of posters here on Fodors are not stupid, they can identify opinions worthwhile to consider from such that are just off.

What makes this forum so worthwhile to read and participate in is its diversity.

Please let us posters here live that diversity by exchanging differing views! If political correctness or whatever the reason for censorship becomes predominant, this forum will most certainly lose its appeal to many of the free thinking regular posters that participate here and do their best to contribute to better travels and thus a better world. For travelling is undoubtedly capable of improving this world because it makes people aware of each other and their common interests as well as their differences.

Thank you and kind regards to everyone - for at least as long as this thread will be around...
hsv
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Old Aug 14th, 2004, 10:57 AM
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Why are you posting this, hsv? This is just a continuation of several posts along this same line-and it makes no difference-I note that "how to deal with Immature Posters" is still up on the board, although it has not a shred of Europe, or travel-related content to it. There is decidedly a subjective editorial approach at fodors, which has no rhyme or reason-you just have to live it, or not!
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Old Aug 14th, 2004, 11:13 AM
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hsv
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Spygirl,

this is an open forum thus far, and I will post whatever I feel like posting.
And, I am afraid, you will have to live THAT or not (the latter possibly being the preferable option).

BTW, I started this thread unaware that there was the one about how to treat a childish poster, which by now I have followed with interest. I admit that this thread might as well have been contributed to that thread, but frankly, that's none of your business. It is my, and solely my decision, whether I want to start a new thread or not. Apart from that, I believe it makes a lot of sense to post this under a different thread and headline, as my approach is much more general. And, please note this in particular, I did not accuse anybody of being childish.
Of course, I am aware that I will have to accept, if threads like this or any others, get removed by the editors. I stated this in my first paragraph here already, but obviously this has so far escaped your attention. I refrain from evaluating this...
This thread was just meant to demonstrate that I evaluate everybody's freedom to utter their opinions very highly and think that even the most "unusual" opinions still make this forum all the more worthwhile to read. Which is why I do not advocate to delete threads that cause this kind of controversy. Moreover, free thinking people like me might get drawn away here, if anything controversial gets censored. This was my intent to utter and this will most defintely not be open to censorship carried out by you.
Regards
hsv
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Old Aug 14th, 2004, 11:24 AM
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and hsv-if you wish to get personal, that's your business, (but that says more about you than anything else!)

The point is, IT DOESN'T DO ANY GOOD. Fodors will delete a whole thread, a few threads, no threads-and it's entirely dependent on who's working that day, and what their individual preferences/biases are. Why take it so personally? If it's going to be deleted, then it is, and you have no control over that-which is their whole point.
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Old Aug 14th, 2004, 11:31 AM
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As far as I have been able to observe, the Fodors editors do not use "political correctness" as the criterion for removing threads; they do tend to remove threads that have descended into a series of venomous or bigoted personal attacks.

Sometimes, they only delete a few such posts from a thread and allow the rest to remain.

I, for one, am glad that they take the trouble to try to keep the tone of the forum a civil one. Opposing opinions can be expressed without resorting to ad hominem attacks.

They also allow -- for a time -- threads such as the one in which people are presently expressing their respect and affection for Julia Child. In a day or two, it is likely to be removed, since the Fodors editos rightly consider that this should remain a forum devoted to travel.
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Old Aug 14th, 2004, 11:42 AM
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My observation is that when threads decline into uncivil behavior, it is often only two or three posters who have caused that decline. I thought the reason for requiring registration was to be able to identify and flush such posters.

FODORS: if you have to go to the trouble of deleting offensive items from a thread, couldn't you also terminate, or at least suspend, the membership privilege of those posters?
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Old Aug 14th, 2004, 11:46 AM
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Eloise, I disagree-I thought initially that it was just the venomous or political posts that got deleted but I know now that's not the case. (look at the other post-it's still here!) The posts deleted some days ago on this board were as innocuous as the "view London" website, for goodness sakes! And there may be a "robust" discussion going, with no expressed venom, and that gets deleted. I can think of other examples along this line as well. That's what finally led me to conclude that it was highly subjective on their part; there are too many examples of deleted posts that don't fit either category.
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Old Aug 14th, 2004, 11:53 AM
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Spygirl,

I have absolutely no intention of getting personal with you.
We agree to the extent that we have to accept if a thread gets deleted. I just wanted to question whether it does any good if threads get deleted or whether it might be preferable to let the posts speak for themselves and their posters, which is my belief.

So far I may not have been the most active of posters here, but I have posted regularly. I love to travel as I think it broadens my personal horizon and I have had great expriences while travelling. I have also been helped by friends, acquaintances and even strangers. Posting here is my way to contribute to other travellers trying to make their trip just that tiny bit more enjoyable. This is why I have so far tried to limit my posts to advice for people asking for it. I have done so to the best of my knowledge, predominantly based on personal experience and to the best of my capabilities.
Thus, I ask you to please accept if I once post a thread in which I take a personal interest and that also refers to the way this forum, which I so much enjoy and regard highly, is being handled by us posters and its honourable editors. If it does not catch your interest, please feel free to not contribute, but also please do not lecture me on what I should do or leave!

Have a nice evening
hsv
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Old Aug 14th, 2004, 11:55 AM
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And if you did what you propose, ClevelandBrown, why, there'd be no one left to post on this board, because it's been my observation that nearly everyone at one point or another has had their posts deleted!
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Old Aug 14th, 2004, 01:42 PM
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Balderdash.
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Old Aug 14th, 2004, 01:46 PM
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well-the OP wouldn't have posted if it wasn't happening fairly regularly-maybe you just don't observe it when it's happening!
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Old Aug 14th, 2004, 01:56 PM
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Spygirl:

Your first post today was at 12:49 p.m., the last at 5:46 p.m.

I don't know how old you are -- you can write, but badly -- but I would suggest that a five-hour temper tantrum is beyond the limit of even the most bratty three-year-old.

Do yourself and all of us a favour and go have a nap.
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Old Aug 14th, 2004, 02:01 PM
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Spygirl, give it a rest. You are extremely antagonistic, maybe because of lack of attention at home. Your posts have become shrill and tedious. The members of the INNER CIRCLE are VERY peeved at you and require that you desist in this psychotic behaviour.

Good afternoon,
John G.
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Old Aug 14th, 2004, 02:02 PM
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And Eloise, one could say the same about you-as well as your writing-but that's just a petulant little outburst on your part-you probably haven't had your lunch yet, no?

Do us a favor? Go run off and play in the yard, please!
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Old Aug 14th, 2004, 02:34 PM
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Hsv,
I missed your post regarding the Olympic Games opening ceremony, but watched it and agree with you and the spirit of sportmanship in the Olympics being an inspiration. The Olympics are always inspiring, and that ceremony gave so much amazing information about Greek culture.

I will cut to the chase here, I am the one who to the editors of the Board this morning to request that the thread I started be removed.

I requested this because my thread was not specifically about travel, and seemed to quickly descend into hostile banter. Not for any reasons of "political correctness" at all. I also let people know that an alternative thread was starting, so they could put any relevant comments there.

I had posted just to send thoughts of support to the Fodorites living in Florida, a simple reason. So I started a second thread right away with the same intent. That one is still active, and follows the subject as stated.

Anyone is free to contact the editors and express themselves if they feel a post or a thread is rude, irrelevent or innappropriate for the forum. Everyone has an equal chance to do this.

So I hope you have already taken the opportunity to send your concerns to the moderators, if you feel strongly about it. Or start another thread and keep to keep your subject alive, if need be.

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Old Aug 14th, 2004, 02:41 PM
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Sognatrice-I think hsv is talking about a different post, not yours. At any rate, as you point out, anyone is free to write to Fodor's with a request to delete or restore a post-however, that is no guarantee that they will do as you ask-I asked them to reconsider deleting a post on the Jacobsen story, and they did in fact, reconsider and restore it, stating that it was travel-related.

But for other requests, well, they have total control of the content of the board, your request may or may not be granted.
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Old Aug 14th, 2004, 04:10 PM
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Fodor's owns and controls this web site. They can do whatever they want...delete...edit...insert.
Its their right. I've had posts on other web sites edited and deleted but it doesn't bother me. Its just a message board!
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