surfmom

NewbE, that is a great point... if bankbabe's friend only wants a tour, then if anything goes wrong (and it will... it always does), will she be on the hot seat?

Those are all super easy places to manage on your own. After having traveled with family - and doing the planning myself - there is a difference between 100% independent. For example, I like private walking tours because we go at our pace and can change it as needed. If we have no tours planned, you miss some of the really interesting historic stuff.

Group tours in a big city will include a bus trip around the city - looking at stuff. I would rather get out and walk it.

A few advantages of a group tour:
- if you don't know the travel style of your friend: departure times are set and she has to meet the group. If she is someone prone to being late or likes a late start and you like an early start, this is the compromise - bus leaves and so do you.
- expenses. You don't have to make any decisions and second guess yourself. The tour price is set.
- eating and food. Depending on the style of the tour, there may be a lot of food included or virtually none. But certainly takes the guesswork and negotiation out of meals when traveling with someone new.
- skip the lines.
- lots of information and historical context.

Disadvantages?
- overall loss of flexibility and ability to make changes on the fly.
- group tour. "if this is Tuesday, it must be Belgium". fast pace.
- meals. Loss of choice here.
- hotels. they decide.
- have to plan more in advance to avoid lines.
- requires much more planning on your part.


Personally, I would come up with a budget for hotels with her - maybe even give her a list of 3 or 4 in each city and let her make the final choice. Then find private tour guides for the things you are interested in. Build one 'activity' each day and then have a list of other things to do near the primary activity.

good luck!

Leely2

This is a very easy itinerary to do on your own. If you are nervous about parts of it, make it easy on yourself and book car services to & form the stations. Or take a taxi. Stay in hotels with a good concierge. Then you will be fine.

Newbe makes an interesting point, though, re: snags and snafus. Will you be on the hook for fixing everything?

Leely2

By the way, I was just in Venice and Rome among other places, not my first visit, but happened to stay at places that would be very likely to help newbies--if and when you need recs. The hotel in Rome even offered complimentary smart phones with maps and other info loaded into them. I have been to Rome a lot so didn't try them out.

janisj

>>ome of these tours make it seem like you are lugging your own bags up several slights of stairs. <<

Actually - most on tours you never touch your luggage (except to place it in the hallway very early in the AM - like 7:00 or 7:30. But don't even consider RS -- because he does expect people to handle their own bags.

Christina

<<The main problem w/ most commercial tours (though not all) is they are VERY fast paced, start out early every morning, and lots of bus time.>>

I don't know that that is true at all, I'd have to survey all the various kinds of tours available. First, many tours don't uses buses much anyway, the ones I took did not. I think the presumption here is that people are traveling long distances by bus, many tours aren't like that at all.

I took a couple tours and really liked them. One was to an area where I really would not go on my own, even today (well, I wouldn't go today) and that was Egypt. The other was supposedly an "easy" place (Ireland and Scotland and England) but I had never traveled hardly at all before then, this was when I started traveling. I did not come from a family where people traveled abroad, not did most people in the small Midwestern town I grew up in. And of course, that was pre-internet days when it really was a lot more difficult to plan things on your own.

I deliberately took tours that stayed in only a couple major cities for about 3 days each at a time and you had a lot of free time, including most meals. So you could do your own thing, but in a few cases where we were in the middle of nowhere, it was nice to have some people do have dinner with or go to the theater with, as a singleton. Now if you are with someone anyway, those issues aren't even there. The tour I was on had a general introductory tour in the city, and then a few excursions you could or could not sign up for, it was up to you. I did sign up for them in Egypt and Greece, those were the things you would sign up for if you had gone there on your own, anyway (local day tours). There were a lot of really nice and fun people on these tours I took (it was a budget tour, I thin you get a different kind of person on those). Wee did not take long bus rides except once between Edinburgh and down to London, stopped in the Lake Country for an overnight. That was really nice, though, as I couldn't have gotten to that area on my own, the bus was comfortable. IN Egypt, we took the train once, and flew another time (between Cairo and Athens). We only did bus trips for the local day trips, like anyone would. It actually was really nice to have someone handle all the transportation plans AND the luggage.

I don't see the reason you'd have to take a 22 inch luggage, unless you want to. I'm not high maintenance, but that's pretty small for me if you have various activities and possible weather scenarios. The whole point of tours is they handle stuff for you, not sure I get why you think you'd have to handle it yourself. Well, I travel on my own a lot now and still handle it myself and use a bigger bag than that (24 inch), so to each his own.

The tour company I took doesn't exist any more, it was through TWA Getaway tours, they were really good.

So I don't know what to tell you but it is true traveling is a heck of a lot easier now with the internet than when I took tours, but it also presumes you have some travel experience. As I said, I did not AT ALL, so taking a tour helped me get my feet wet, and was a great idea for me. It also is NOT true that tours are all fast paced, as some say. You can choose the type of tour you want. The ones I took were no more fast paced than when I travel on my own. I don't know Italy tours, but I'm sure there must be some that spend about 3 days in several major cities, which isn't my idea of fast paced.

Tours can sometimes get you in places more easily you couldn't on your own, or at least not without preplanning, that's true.

I'm not high maintenance and not remotely a hotel snob, though, so if you are, you either need a more expensive tour or maybe do not to book on your own.

Your trip doesn't sound that difficult to me that you'd need a tour, though, if you have some travel experience under your belt.

NewbE

My SO did one or two of those stereotypical, overnight bus ride, one day in each major city tours when he was young and stationed in Europe. He was new to travel and they were cheap enough for him to afford and he appreciated them for what they were.

Higher end tours are NOTHING like that. Don't know why so many here think all tours are "fast paced" and feature bad food and crummy accommodation.

Perhaps I digress.

But as long as I'm digressing, why does Rick Steves insist on having people haul their own luggage??

dugi_otok

Your requirements and your friend's desire for a tour has an upscale Tauck Tour solution.

Tauck has a 8 day (7 night) Venice(2), Florence(3), Rome(2) tour. Tauck also has arrive early and stay later so you could add a day to Venice and add a day or 2 to Rome.

http://www.tauck.com/tours/europe-to...bPage=Overview

http://www.tauck.com/tours/europe-to...Page=Itinerary

http://www.tauck.com/tours/europe-to...Accommodations

Tauck also has a 10 Day Tour which adds Lake Como which you might like.

http://www.tauck.com/tours/europe-to...bPage=Overview

mmmooommm

you can do this on your own, especially if you two don't want to be with a stack of other people.

saying this, I have done Overseas Adventure Tours, with my mom, and they are small groups and very well done.

but these cities are very doable. get a good book, Rick Steves is fine, and figure it out. I often do VRBO's or Airbnb, but take your pick. hotels will generally be more expensive.

it is a fun adventure...you will learn a lot about each other!

save the tour for another alphabet (i.e. China, etc) and someplace that is a real headache to plan. this is breezy!

mmmooommm

ok, just saw, a girl friend, not girlfriend. same suggestion tho

Scootoir

Mr. Wonderful and I booked a Trafalgar tour to Rome, Florence and Venice in 2014 and enjoyed it. We usually travel on our own and I do all the planning but due to work commitments did not have the time to plan so we took a chance. We chose the particular Trafalgar itinerary because transport between the 3 cities was by train--I would never put Mr. W on a bus for that long, we had a lot of time on our own and it fit into when I could take off work. I would have preferred a smaller group but that was a trade-off. Trip report is here if you are interested. http://www.fodors.com/community/euro...alian-tour.cfm

As suggested above we added 2 nights in Rome and one in Venice. Hotels were well-located, rooms were comfortable; at the hotel in Venice we were given our own little villa on a courtyard. We rolled our luggage between train station and hotels in Florence and Venice but tour mates helped those with big suitcases. We converted to 22" some years ago after having to lift our big bags onto the luggage racks on trains.

ToujoursVoyager

I would never dream of booking a tour in Europe, a safe and easy continent to navigate. But your high maintenance friend wants a tour. And traveling with a friend sometimes leads to compromise.

I have use two tours in Africa. The first was in Egypt in 2012. I was called Memphis tours, a local Egyptian agency. There were amazing especially considering how cheap it was despite including 4 stars hotel, a train down the Nile, a cruise, transport to Abu Simbel etc...

The second one is called Abercrombie and Kent. I used it in Tanzania for my honeymoon but they also have itineraries in Europe. It is luxurious traveling. Check out Abercrombie and Kent, it might be what you and your friend are looking for.

tuscanlifeedit

Hotel snob and high maintenance woman and would prefer a maximum group of 20: higher end tour or plan it yourself.

If you ask me (and you haven't really) I would eliminate Trafalgar, Rick Steves and Gate1 right off the bat.

Tauck, maybe.

thursdaysd

If she is high maintenance you can definitely forget RS. I have enjoyed a few of his tours, but I prefer to take my (22 inch) bag to my room instead of waiting for it to arrive, or having to put it out in the corridor (where it could be stolen) early in the morning. You are also expected to be on time, all the time, or the tour will leave without you.

But I am wondering whether this trip is a good idea in the first place. Have you traveled with this friend before? Does she expect you to plan everything, and if so, why? Will she expect you to spend all your time with her? To conform to her schedule (if not constrained by a tour)?

Wanting a small group is likely to prove expensive.

NewbE

I just glanced at the thread in the Lounge, and it's... just, wow. People who say they have never been on a tour, would never, etc. then go on to say "You sit on a bus all day and only see things through the window and never spend more than a day in any city."

What nonsense! I sincerely hope the OP takes what is said there with a grain of salt, a big one.

There ARE nice tours. Maybe OP will decide against one, maybe they're too expensive, whatever, but they do exist.

bankbabe

Thank you all for your great comments. I am digesting them all. I looked into Tauck and e-mailed her the itinerary for late May 2018. Also said there is RS (which makes you carry your own luggage) and I will look for another one, so she can see what it is all about.

From all the comments I am getting here and in the Lounge, I really am at the point of telling her it will be cheaper to plan ourselves. I have traveled a bunch, but mostly in the USA and Caribbean. I have only been to Europe once before and that was to Scotland and Ireland with DH and we managed just fine with our own hotel bookings (with the help of Am Ex platinum). No problem with train from Edinburgh to St. Andrews, and driving around Ireland on the Left side of the road.... It was fun.

Since we first began talking about this trip, she went ahead and bought another condo - and THEN said she thought a tour would be less expensive. So, there may be more going on that I truly know about.

MarthaT

Check out Monograms Vacations. I think they do a Rome, Florence and Venice package tour. They provide hotels, transportation from city to city and a local tour and you are on your own the rest of the time.

xcountry

Ok a DIY trip but:

"But a part of me feels like it will not be totally MY preference, and being a true fodorite and an admitted hotel snob - I like to plan things myself."

"That is where I think it would be best if I picked the hotels because no elevator just wouldn't work for us."

Too many "my's and "I's". As others have mentioned, I would make this her trip as much as yours. You know when posters say "get the kids involved" ... well get her involved. Let her make a few choices.

Dammit if she can get mad at you then at least you'll be able to get mad at her.

janisj

OK -- It sounds like budget is an issue - explain to her that the less expensive tours (Globus/Trafalgar/Gate1/etc) ARE mostly fast paced and and you DO spend much of each day either on a bus (city sightseeing or long distance drives between stopovers) or in canned 'craft' demos which are really shopping opportunities.

Slower paced/higher end/more 'culturally based' tours can be great but are very expensive.

If you need to stick to a budget -- then planning your own trip will save $$$/€€€

NewbE

I can't weigh in on price specifics, but wanted to make a point that is perhaps obvious: when looking at a tour total, divide by the number of days (I know, duh!), and then consider how much you might spend each day on hotel, food, transportation and tickets to stuff if you were on your own. The total can look outrageous because it's paid all at once, and not in dribs and drabs during the course of a trip.

Whatever you decide, good luck!

kybourbon

Along with janisj's points about the cheaper tours, they also often stay outside the city centers making it difficult to get anywhere on your own. Your "Florence" hotel could be a half-hour from Florence in another town. In Rome, you could end up out on the ring-road. Venice you could be stuck in Mestre or on the Lido.

It's not like there is that much to book on this trip since you only have 10 days (is that in Italy or including to and from US?).

Book flight to Venice, return from Rome. A water taxi to hotel doesn't need to be booked in advance nor does a taxi to the airport in Rome (taxis are set fees to the airport). Book 3 hotels, 2 trains. You only have time for a couple of sites in each city so you would each have to pick which are most important to you in each (they may not be the same and you might need to part ways at times).

Are you planning to share a room with this person? This can be a bigger problem if one is a morning person and the other isn't, etc. (BTDT) and you don't really know someone until you travel with them outside their comfort zone. I made the mistake of traveling with someone once (she had begged to go to Italy with me for years) that wanted to go to bed at 8:00 every night which is dinner time in Italy. I also discovered how paranoid this person was and insecure (did not want to be left alone and was suspicious of everything and everyone). She really felt out of her element when she wasn't in the US and wanted to stay on her phone talking to family all the time. Additionally, it turned out she had all kinds of phobias I was unaware of (heights, enclosed spaces). I had booked the Scavi tour under St. Peter's and I thought she was going to have a panic attack (it's really not tight quarters at all, just humid). She didn't want to climb up anything either because of issues with heights.