kwren

We are just starting the process of looking into a European trip for next summer. My husband and I will be going for 2 weeks with our 2 17 year olds. We've been to Europe quite a few times and like to explore new areas.

We are thinking of flying into Zurich and spending about 4 days in the Bernese Oberland area. The kids and I were there in 2006 but my husband was not. We won't be doing the Jungfrau or Schilthorn since we have already been there, but rather to hike, enjoy the beautiful scenery, eat fondue, relax. He just HAS to go there and I hope we don't end up chopping this off of the rest of this trip.

From there we will either rent a car or take a train to northern Italy (suggestions?) Either way, we'll rent a car in Tuscany. Here is where I need help because I don't even know where to start and don't know much about the area! The 2 things we would definitely like to visit are Tuscan towns (don't know which ones - Help! What are your favorites? Why?) and walk parts (not all - I've already started researching that) of the Cinque Terre trails. Hotels in different towns vs renting a house/apt in a central location (where? please help!) comes into play here. We are open to either, and if there are suggestions of where to stay or disadvantages to hotel vs house/apt, I'd love to hear them. I'd love to hear what other people have done or any suggestions, on any aspect. From here I'll be reading as many posts as possible!

We don't want to plan every day or hour and want to be able to enjoy a cafe if we see one or just wander when we see something we like. We have to balance that with preventing boredom with the 2 kids. I'm not sure if we should consider going into Florence for a day or skip it. (I've been there, my husband hasn't and maybe it's too much for this trip) I know we can see Pisa in half a day so we'll do that if we're nearby and if it's convenient. I suppose my kids would like to see it even if quickly. Should we consider Lake Como in this trip or is that too far/too ambitious? We've never been there. Not being familiar with Italy, I don't have good ideas of how much is too much for +/- a week

Finally, we would like to spend 3 days in Venice before flying home (if we can get a flight out that is) We prefer not going to Rome this trip - that will be saved for another day!

I know a lot of people on Fodors love Italy (like loveitaly!) and I hope you'll consider giving me advice and helping me enjoy the year leading up to this trip. I often enjoy the research as much as the trip - it lasts a whole lot longer! Thanks for any insights you have for me!

mamcalice

I would take the train from Switzerlan and rent your car in northern Italy. The rates can be very high when you cross between countries. With two weeks, I would plan on fewer destinations. At this point you have Switzerland, Lake Como, Tuscany, Pisa, Cinque Terre and Venice.

Why not train from Switzerland to Florence, spend one night take the train to CT through Pisa (stopping in Pisa for a half day either coming or going), spend 2-3 days in CT, hiking the whole trail. We stayed in Vernazza and hiked to Monterossa one day - the most strenuous part of the trail. The next day we did the rest of the trail, south from Vernazzan, not a difficult hike. Then return to Pisa or Florence and rent a car to Tuscany. Depending on how many days you want to spend there, drop the car in Florence, train to Venice and fly home from there. So:
Switzerland - 4 days
Florence - 1 night
CT - 3 days
Tuscany - 4 days
Venice - 3 days.

When are you going?

JAX9000

The house or apartment is a good choice. If you want a house consider that the ones close to the Tuscan shores are cheaper than the ones in the hills between Siena and Florence. Two summers ago I rented a house near Lucca, with a swimming pool and a grill. Sometimes we left the house in the morning not to return until very late and sometimes we just stayed by the pool and walking around the nearby roads. Just have it clear to yourself what kind of house you want, what are the bedroom arrangements, if you need or not AC and a wahing machine etc. A good broker can find you exactly what you want. Regarding the Tuscan hilltowns I like Pienza (it is very very small but with an almost perfect picturesque quality), San Gemignano at the evening and volterra. If you can , stretch to Assisi for its beautiful atmosphere (I'm not even a catholic but I loved the town. You can catch the train to Venice (be sure to book an Eurostar from Florence). Consider a day in Lucca (rent a bike and stroll through the city ramparts. Florence is tricky... if you can buy tickets in advance for the Uffizzi and the Accademia you can make this two museums in one day and walk from the Duomo to the Ponte Vecvhio and maybe the San Lorenzo market. Not a complete tour but this will give your husband and kids a flavor of the city.

kwren

That's exactly the type of help I was looking for! We'll be going end July/early August because of the kids' schedules.

I like your comments about train and car - I was thinking that might be better too. I'll look into train passes - maybe the car in Tuscany and drop it off at the end of that week and take the train into Venice.

JAX9000

Just a last word.. it will be hot...very, very hot! So, if you decide to rent some place, be sure they have AC!

Henry

kwren,
This will give you some ideas for Tuscany http://www.slowtrav.com/italy/tuscany/hs_planning.htm


Henry

zeppole

If you are coming down from Switzerland by train, I don't recommend heading straight into the heat of Florence, just to take another train to le Cinque Terre.

I suggest you come down as far as Stresa on Lago Maggiore, spend the night (perhaps on the island of Pescatore in the Lake, which should be fun for everybody), then get back on the train to Sestri Levante. It's a lot more fun than over-heated and crowded le Cinque Terre for teens, but you can do an easy day trip to le Cinque Terre to see it.

Take the train to Pisa, stow your luggage in the train station, see the monuments, have lunch, pick up a car and then head off to Panzano in Chianti. You can use the car to day trip around the castle towns, but there is also an easy bus to both Florence and Siena, to spare yourselves the hassle of parking.

Recenly a Fodor's poster stayed at this place just a five-minute walk outside Panzano and wrote glowing reviews of it: In a place like this, your kids can walk to town for a gelato, but you can also visit a big impact place like Siena. You can eat some meals at "home" but you can also walk to town for restaurants.

http://www.tenutedipecille.com/Default.aspx

If you have time, you can drive up to Venice, drop off the car and fly home from there. Or fly out of Florence or Pisa, dropping off the car at the airport.

kwren

Hey Henry - that looks very helpful with all the info and love the driving directions. Thanks

JAX - thanks for that tip! Another son and I were in Italy 7 years ago - the summer of the BIG heat wave and I remember it well. We were on a tour which hit the big cities. This time in Italy will be mostly countryside, although I'm already thinking we will add at least a day in Florence. Glad for the reminder for the AC - I won't forget!

wren

From one wren to another, we stayed at the politan apartments in Montepulciano 3 summers ago. It was an ideal location for touring Tuscany and doing day trips. Here is a thread that has a lot of ideas about accomodations in the area and includes the apt. website:
http://www.fodors.com/community/euro...in-tuscany.cfm

Why not begin in Italy and head north to Switzerland? That way as the weather gets hotter, you will be going into cooler territory? You could fly into Venice spend 3 days, enjoy Tuscany and then head north and eventually drop off your car before entering Swizterland. Just a thought!

maitaitom

Hope this helps. Chapters 2 through 5 cover hill towns of Tuscany, Florence and Venice. If interested in Umbria, that is chapter one of our fantastic trip. Have a great time.

http://web.me.com/tomfielding1/Tom_%...taly_2005.html

bobthenavigator

You are getting some good advice but it may be confusing to you. You will need to make some choices. You certainly cannot do it all. My advice is to give your yourself 4 days in Tuscany--preferably south Tuscany. Here are some good options:

BOB’S FAVORITE DIGS IN TOSCANA

A. RURAL LOCATIONS: All have parking and good food options nearby

1. Relais La Saracina www.lasaracina.it 230 to 300E
Fabulous country home near Montepulciano—helpful owners

2. Cretaiole Agriturismo http://www.cretaiole.it/ Good value for families

3. Terre di Nano www.terredinano.com 100 to 155
Both rooms and apartments at rural Agriturismo near Monticchiello


4. Casanova di Pescille http://www.casanovadipescille.com/ 100E
Rural B&B 3 KM from famed San Gimignano—we loved the views of San Gim.

5. Fattoria Tregole www.fattoria-tregole.com 110E to 180E
Has both B&B and apartment accommodations. Near Castellina in Chianti

6. Agriturismo apts. near San Quirico— www.poggiolo.info/ About 110E

B. IN-TOWN LOCATIONS: For walking convenience to shops & ristorantes.

1. Palazzo del Capitano www.palazzodelcapitano.com 130 to 180E
Very nice small hotel in center of San Quirico—perfect location to explore.

2. Vecchia Oliviera www.tuscany.net/oliviera/ 130 to 180E
Nice 4 star hotel at the gate into lovely Montalcino---has pool.

3. Palazzina Cesari www.montalcinoitaly.com 80 to 110E
Lovely small B&B in heart of Montalcino—great value—2 night stay minimum.

4. Locanda di San Francesco www.locandasanfrancesco.it 180 to 200E
New boutique B&B in a lovely location in Montepulciano—great reviews !

5. Politian apartments http://www.politian.com/ Good value apts. with
minimum stay of 3 nights in Montepulciano---helpful host---85E

6. Palazzo Ravizza www.palazzoravizza.it 130 to 180E
Very nice & popular hotel in Siena with parking.

7. Fattoria Vignale http://www.vignale.it/eng/ Four star hotel in Radda in the heart of Chianti. About 230E for double

zeppole

I think southern Tuscany holds less interest for teens than the cities and areas on the north.

kwren

zeppole - you have some great suggestions for the kids and I really appreciate that. I don't want them to be bored and always plan with them in mind.

Bob - that's a great list! I will be checking them out.

maitatom - we're going to Montserrat in 2 weeks and when we get back I'm going to read the whole report. I do think I remember you title from a few years ago, is that right? Nice to have a title that sticks out!

wren -

kwren

Off the track a bit...Does anyone think it would be better to take the husband and kids to Rome instead of Venice for their first trip to Italy? We certainly aren't going to go to both Rome and Venice this trip, but looking at the map, we'll be pretty close to Rome so maybe that would be a better idea. I guess I'm asking - if you would go to Italy for the first time and could only see one, what is your opinion of which would be the better intro to Italy?

Maybe a side trip to Pompeii would be more exciting for the kids, especially with our trip to Montserrat and its volcano this year. We can keep that theme going!

baldrick

kwren,

Whatever final decision you'll make, it may be cheaper to fly directly to Northern Italy, to Milan. In fact, Bern is less than 3 hours train from Milan. So you could arrive in Milan, take your 3 to 4 days in the Bernese oberland, take the train back to Milan and then take the car. In case you would fly out from Venice, it would also be cheaper to leave the car in the same country at the end of the trip.

However, and this is only my opinion, with 2 weeks of holiday, I would totally concentrate on Tuscany, find a nice B&B or agriturismo in the surroundings of Siena, which is fairly central. With day trips of max. 100km one way, you'll see quite a lot from Tuscany and you'll have time to rest.
The Bernese Oblerland is nice of course, I know, I only live some 60 km from it, but still, Tuscany...

zeppole

kwren,

I would pick Rome over Venice with teens. It has much more to explore, has more variety and indoor activities of interest to younger people in case it is too hot or it rains, is more lively at night, has better pizza and pasta, and it brings them in much more a direct contact with Italian culture. Much of the town-life of the Bernese Oberland is internationalized by intense tourism, and the same is true in Venice. If you go to Rome, rather than a daytrip to boiling hot Pompei, consider Ostia Antica, much closer, much shadier and by the sea.

I'm less of a fan of Tuscany for teens than some people. Some of the towns -- like San Gimignano, Volterra, Lucca, Siena, Pisa and Florence can be a lot of fun for teens. But the Tuscan driving trip so beloved by older people, which focuses on wineries, shopping and quaint town hopping -- plus lots of photo taking of the manicured farms -- seem to me to offer teens less to do other than swim in the pool and eat gelato.

If your kids are interested in photography, biking, cooking, gardening, jewelry-making, animals, science, theater, what have you, it is possible to craft an Italian vacation and Tuscan vacation that appeals directly to their interest. But you have to say what they are!

kwren

I love this forum! A lot of these suggestions are so different than those I have come up with. I would have never considered flying to Milan instead of Zurich and will definitely check it out. Hopefully the price won't matter because we have enough frequent flyer miles, but it's so hard to get those seats that having another alternative will help immensely.

Tuscany for the kids has been a bit of a worry from the start, but that part is more for my husband and me! The suggestion to bike in Lucca (if we go there) and Pisa will break it all up for them, and maybe I'll find a place with a pool. They don't mind hiking...but I AM worried about the temps so I have to do some intense thinking about CT. I know we won't hike the entire thing if we still go, but maybe a boat for part instead of the hiking I had planned. Maybe we'll hit it lucky and it won't be so hot. We do want to end in Rome (probably not Venice as it stands now) as that will be something exciting for everyone to look forward to and that will give my husband some time to relax from his job at the start of the vacation.

It was mentioned that San Gimignano, Volterra, Lucca, Siena are fun for teens. Anything specific in each that I should look at? SG hasn't seemed to be a fav from what I have been reading in other posts. Moderate biking/hiking/walking, science, animals appeal to them - the aim is to get them outside! It will be a video-free vacation! Woo hoo!

zeppole

kwren,

Are you willing to rent a car?

If so, base yourself somewhere near Lerici/Tellaro, which is south of Tuscany and le Cinque Terre, on the sea. You will have GORGEOUS hikes in the hills if the weather is nice, If the weather is not nice, it is an easy drive to Lucca, Pisa, Cararra, Parma, San Gimignano, Volterra and many other places of interest.

If you do google searches for things like "horseback riding San Gimignano" or "horseback riding Lucca' -- you will come up with hits.

You can also think of booking in Levanto or Moneglia (near le Cinque Terre). Try looking for agriturismi, which always have pools. Do google searches for "agrituismo Levanto" or "agriturismo Lerici" or any town you see on the map.

Although San Gimignano is not a "fave" on Fodor's, where retirees favor driving tours south of Siena, the area has lots to offer an active family: bike rentals, trips to Volterra, trips to the sea, horseback riding, hikes. Check out Tripadvisor "specialty lodging" for San Gimignano and you will see rave reviews of agriturismi there with pools and restaurants.

Lexma90

We haven't taken our kids to Tuscany, partly because we think there's less there that they'd be interested in. But it's perfectly fine for the adults to decide on at least a portion of the trip destination! (We took our DD to Venice, Florence, Rome and the Marche region, because that part of Italy has quite a few castles that we felt she would like - and she did. Rome and Venice were her favorites, though.)

I would guess that between San Gimignano, Volterra, Lucca and Siena, the latter two might be more interesting to teens, because they are bigger towns and, with more places for young people to hang out in the evenings (and older people too).

I happen to really like San Gimignano. It's particularly great in the evening, after the day-trippers have left. People congregate on the main piazza, at any of the several cafes there, or simply sit by the old cisterna with a gelato from one of the two award-winning gelaterias on the piazza. There are several great restaurants, if you're foodies. It's easier to drive in and out of in the morning and evening than Siena is. But, still, with two 17yo, Siena might be a better bet.

Outside of San Gimignano, we took a nice little walk/hike through the woods to the ruins of Castelvecchio, is a fortified village from the middle ages, located outside San Gimignano to the southwest (though more south than west). It took a couple of hours, total, for DH and I, and we're active hikers. It was fun to climb around the ruins. You can google the name of the village for pictures.

For their first trip, though it sounds like you already decided, I'd probably pick Rome over Venice, too. (And I like that you're not trying to squeeze everything into one trip.)

kwren

Thanks for all the info on the various towns in Tuscany. Now I know what to search for on Fodors and after a while, after my research, I'm sure I'll be back with more questions to refine the trip.

If we have to shorten the trip, switzerland will be the first to go, but for now we'll be starting there and ending in Rome, with CT and Tuscany in the middle. First research stop is Ostia Antica instead of Pompeii. I'm going to let the kids read about both and decide - they've heard of Pompeii so they'll have some thinking to do. Venice will wait for another day, but I'm very happy with this change. Thanks for the advice!

And to answer Aeppole's question, yes, we'll have a car in the middle portion of the trip so will look at all your suggestions.

Thanks everyone for all your thoughtful responses.