dan woodlief

Helen, I know it seems off topic, but the Confederate flag issue was part of the original post, and it appears to be a reason why some people can do without the southern U.S. Granted, it has little to do with Europe, except for some parallels drawn to Nazi Germany by some posters.

Catherine

i have to say,I have found the flag issue very interesting.I knew nothing about it before this thread.Not even that a confederate flag exsisted. <BR>It has been informative and educational. <BR>Lets keep debates alive in the forum!

April

Me too Catherine. I never knew there was any flag flying in the US other than the regular stars and stripes one. Seems odd to me that another is lingering around and that people still talk in terms of north and south. Are there any other flags in the US? <BR> <BR>Thanks Neal for the explanation - I hadn't heard of 2nd world countries (or I forgot). Now I wonder if a country can leave its 3rd world designation and at what point that would happen. Anyway, fascinating. <BR> <BR>I personally love the way these postings flow from topic to topic like a river finding its course. <BR> <BR>And yes, I'd say Scandinavians do have a look. <BR>

Al

America is the most over-flagged nation I know. Each of the 50 states has its own flag. Some cities have their own flag. Many sports teams have flags. Many companies fly their own flag. Schools have their own flags. Each branch of the armed forces has its own banner. What have I missed? One would suspect we develop rotator cuff fractures from waving our flags all the time! It's a big business.

dan woodlief

And let's not forget the flags showing everything from flowers to the Easter Bunny that people fly on their houses - a big trend in some parts now. Have resisted it, but we have bought 4-5 small ones for the mailbox for Independence day, birth of our little girl, etc. I remember when we were in Freiburg a few years ago during a holiday, many buildings in town had colorful flags flying from them for the occasion. In Luzern and I think one other place, we saw large Swiss flags on the sides of small mountains. I guess flags have universal appeal. It would be hard to top the U.S. though for flag fever.

elvira

Let's not forget some corporations have their own flags; some counties have their own flags. And last, but not least, each state has its own license plate - with some states having several different designs (Florida immediately comes to mind). AND, if that isn't good enough, you can get a 'vanity plate' with your own cute combination of letters and numbers. Yes, we are a nation of flags, emblems, insignias and brands. No wonder people get confused about our national identity!

Adam

I guess I'm one of those sad people who would like to get into the Guinness Book of Records as having visited every country in the world - 44 up to now - only about 100 still to do. However, I have got some real nasties under my belt, #1 being Lagos, Nigeria and #2 being Luanda, Angola! Nevertheless, there are often nice surprises. I spent a couple of months in Maputo, Mozambique in 1986 and despite there being bombs going off left right and centre, had a wonderful time! If I had to leave out any countries on my total hit list I guess I could give some of those central African and middle eastern places a miss.

Sally

I have lived in the South all my life,but I have many Northern and Western friends and relatives. Why are people surprised that the Southerners still remember the Civil War? Think of other countries with long memories such as Ireland and Scotland.Probably people from all countries have certain strong feelings about historical events that affected their ancestors or their area of the country. <BR>By the way, I have done eight years of twice a week volunteer work at (mostly Black)Head Start programs and once was interested to see a little Black girl wearing a tee shirt with a Confederate flag on it! <BR>The people who use the Confederate flag for racial reasons are few and far between in the parts of the South that I have lived in(Tennessee,Louisiana,Virginia,Alabama and Misissippi).Most of those who do are low income and uneducated. <BR>There are many people who are very interested in both local and family Civil War history and respect the Confederate flag as a symbol of both.

Katt

If I may, the following are the places I have been to. <BR> <BR>Like most of you, some places I adored, simply for the character of the city. And, well, other places, no comment. <BR> <BR>Above all, I think that any trip/adventure/vacation/holiday, whatever you may refer to it as, is what *you* make of it!! <BR> <BR>Florida: Miami, ok, ok, as a local, I am amused by the tourists. For those of you who dont live here, please, do not display all of your cameras/video cameras/etc, as if it were simply some sort of "New Age-Tech" jewelry. Dont flaunt it, and you'll save yourself lots of hassle and your cameras/video camera. <BR> <BR>Bahamas: Just one piece of advice. Paradise Island. Go there, stay there, enjoy it. Dress decently, be patient. Atlantis Resort, a top on my list. For the kids too! <BR> <BR>Cayman Islands: Divers, you'll like it. This coming from another diver. Clear water, like any Carib island. They are pretty much all the same. Some more developed than others, due to the masses of tourists. +) <BR> <BR>*Remember, that the Caribbean islands thrive off of tourism* Some are more developed than others... <BR> <BR>Aruba: Ahh, my favorite. The people, the island, yet is barely 20 miles wide, who cares! The surfing is outrageous! Marriott, top of my list of "likes". Hyatt too. <BR> <BR>Barbados: Visit the caves, the water is beautiful too. Stayed for a short time. <BR> <BR>St. Thomas: Ahh, very nice. Any of the British Islands are nice. Clean water, friendly people. St. Barts, beautiful! <BR> <BR>Dominica: Environmentalists folks, take heed to this island!! Go diving too, I do not recall the name of the place. But there is this place where you can see bubbles rising from the ocean floor and feel the warm water rushing through the crevices. <BR> <BR>Puerto Rico: No comment. <BR> <BR>Dominican Republic: No comment. <BR> <BR>New York: No comment. <BR> <BR>Canada: No comment. <BR> <BR>Orlando, Fl: Depends where you go. Disney area (Kissimee), it is the tackiest area I have seen in all of my travels. However, there are alot of *lush* areas around UCF. Miami lacks of *lush* areas nowadays with all of the new houses/apts being built everywhere. Just one word of advice, if you want to see Orlando for what it really is, get as far away from Disney as you possibly can. <BR> <BR>Alaska: Breathtaking. If you want to take a nice trip, impressionable to the most closed-minded person you've ever known, go to Alaska. You can be rugged and go on your own, or simply take a cruise, (much more comfortable), and visit Glacier Bay!! If you've never seen a glacier, it is a sight! <BR> <BR>Denmark: YOUNG KIDS EVERYWHERE! 20-somethings sitting at the cafe's. Men in suits riding bikes to work. Women in suits on Rollerblades. Beautiful country. The Danes have it nicely. Such a lively place. (Copenhagen). If you can, visit the northern part of Denmark. <BR> <BR>Sweden: My mom loves Sweden, visit the Old Town. Fenomenal countryside!!! <BR> <BR>Norway: This country is on the top of my list. Especially the town of Trondheim. The Nidaros Cathedral is fascinating... If you get a chance, take a road trip along the coast, just be careful with the Norweigians tact of driving around the fjords!! =) <BR> <BR>Finland: I am part Finnish. So I am bias to this country. Just go. Dont think about it twice. Go to Nord Kap, above the Artic Cirle. Experience a sauna, if you never have before. Do the whole birch whipping to get the blood circulating too. Be brave!! <BR> <BR>*With all of Scandinavia, incredible looking men!! *grin* Yummy... <BR> <BR>Spain: Madrid has character. Hits high with the younger crowd!! Take VERY comfortable shoes. I loved it! Partly because I have a very lovely friend that lives there. One seems to like places more so than usual, if friends are from there. Life's curiosity's... <BR> <BR>Tenerife, Canary Islands: Make sure to stay in a 4 or 5-star hotel, or a timeshare. Otherwise, make sure you are referred to the place you intend to stay at. Lots of Germans in Playa Las Americas (their prime territory). Los Cristianos is a nice place, more French and native islanders. The south is the "tourist area" of the island. Besides the attractions to see around the whole island. Their is a very DRAMATIC change between the North & South of the island. Rent a car, give a turn around the island, you'll enjoy the North lots. <BR> <BR>Venezuela: Oh boy! Third world country, dont expect much. Depends where you go, you'll see good and bad. Like any place, in any part of the world. Be very careful. I would not recommend traveling there, unless you are from there or you *have* to go there. Go with a respectable tour operator. <BR> <BR>That's all folks!! Just be aware that these are my opinions of the places I have been to. <BR> <BR>To each, their own! One piece of advice that is on neutral ground; anyone who is planning to travel to a foreign place, for the first time, make sure to do your research... <BR> <BR>Happy travels kids!!

Katt

Forgive the typos/grammatical errors, I am experiencing *lovely* jet lag. -) <BR> <BR>Yes, Scandinavians appear differently than, per say, Americans. <BR> <BR>Ahh, if I recall correctly, you can visit half of the European countries, by just going to Epcot Center. Saves you the money and the hassles with airlines. <BR> <BR>Oh, one more thing, Iberia airlines, is possibly the worst airline I have ever been on. Except for their interior flights, their international flights are awful. Yak! Yak! Ack! Ack! Horrible. <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR>

richardab

1. Who cares about the Confederate Flag. Can we get off the politics? <BR> <BR>2. Everyone who said they can do without LA has hurt my feelings. LA is a great city, once you get to know her! <BR> <BR>3. Yes the culture of Japan is different and we cannot read the signs and understand the language, but isn't that part of the adventure? Besides you won't find friendlier people than the Japanese anywhere. The are very good hosts, even though I did not know what I was eating half the time. Traveling to Japan left me literally stranded, now I feel more sympathetic to those BRAVE Japanese who travel to the US. <BR> <BR>4. My Favorite Places- Rome, Paris, San Francisco, New York, Amsterda, Maui, Bermuda and, of course Los Angeles. <BR> <BR>5. Places I Like - Madrid, Paris, London, Toledo Spain, Tokyo, New Orleans, St Petersberg Florida, Boston. <BR> <BR>6. Places That Are Just OK - Venice, Edinburgh, Ft Lauderdale <BR> <BR>7. Place I Went and I Don't Know Why - Chicago, Glasgow, Cardiff, Brussels, Washington DC. <BR> <BR>8. Places I Want To Go - Florence, Barcelona, Munich, Berlin, Prague, Vienna, Salzburg, Prague. <BR> <BR>9. Places I Will Never Go To or Don't Care To Go Back To - Africa, Russia, Phillipines, Middle East, Chicago, Seattle, anyplace too cold or Rainy. <BR> <BR>10. Places I Am Not Sure About - India, Greece, Scandanavia, Canada, Mexico, Singapore, Carribbean, Australia <BR> <BR>11. Places That Intrigue Me - Argentina, Thailand, Tahiti <BR> <BR>12. Places I Lived - New York, San Francisco, New Hampshire, Los Angeles, Oakland, New Haven CT. <BR> <BR ANy Comments?

Paige

The 2 places I've been that I disliked the most were Sofia, Bulgaria and Bucharest, Romania. I visited both in 1986 and found them to be depressing, unfriendly, ugly places. That was a long time ago, so has anyone been there since and have anything better to report?

lola

I can do without anyplace designed to appear like something else when it is less interesting than the places themselves, such as Vegas and theme parks. I can also do without places created to appeal to tourists such as resort towns, vs. "real" places. I've been to India, Argentina, Guatemala, Tangiers, Cyprus, and many other places which wouldn't be high on some people's lists but found fabulous experiences.

Don

I am amazed as I see Las Vegas show up on these lists as a bad place to visit. One person even described it as "tacky". Wow-I sure hope those who have not been don't listen to these guys as they must be going to the wrong places. My and I are not big gamblers but LV is far more than gambling. All I can surmise it that you guys are going to the wrong places. Try Bellagio, a 1.6 billion dollar resort that because others gamble, you can stay in for under $125 a night during weekdays. This is considered the finest and most expensive resort in the world now.The 300 million dollar art collection is fabulous. The show there 'O' is unreal.The spas in the nice hotels are some of the best in the world. The entertainment is fabulous! Again, you guys must be going to the wrong places. Try the class places-Bellagio, Mirage, Venetian. Use the spas and see the shows and all the lounge acts. It certainly is anything but tacky!!!

Tom

Interesting how varied the responses are. My vote for places I've been and can do without are: <BR>ANY Caribbean cruise (the epitomy of commercialization) <BR>Bombay, India - the longest 3 months of my life while working there...wall to wall people, when it's 2000 in USA, it's 1930 in Bombay <BR>Barstow, Calif.(what's its purpose? <BR>Most of Florida (lived there-way over-rated unless you love humidity and bugs) <BR>Places I've loved: <BR>Hong Kong <BR>all of Italy, Paris, Belgium (yes Brussels too), So. California (not downtown LA) but surrounding areas including Orange County-best weather in the world. <BR>Chicago (something for everyone) <BR>New York City - absolutely love the food and diversity, theater, etc. <BR>San Francisco-cosmopolitan and fascinating (but expensive) <BR>Santa Barbara, CA. - gorgeous! <BR>

herself

Wow! this post is proof that we have an easier time remembering the negative than we do the possitive. <BR>The places I disliked where theme parks.I will never go back to Disney world or land. My children thought they were being deprived because they were the "only ones" who had never been to Disneyworld. We went, spent a lot of money, we all hated it. The crowds, the heat, the lousy food. Following year we went back to the woods of N.H. swam in crytal lakes, jumped off cliffs into deep ponds, go shot out of slides carved in stones by eons of water and had a great time. <BR>I will never understand the popularity of places like Disney.

Joanna

I disagree about Scandinavians having a "look". There is a perception outside Scandinavia about what they look like (blonde, fair), but when you go there you see dark hair and brown eyes just as much as the fair. I remember being amazed at seeing more fair people in Denmark compared to Norway and Sweden. <BR> <BR>Never had any problems in Japan with the signs, at least in major cities (Tokyo, Kyoto) - I managed to get around on the underground in Tokyo by reading the station signs in English (which are provided) and following the coloured diagram of the various lines. A good map of the city is all you need to navigate yourself around the streets. <BR> <BR>There isn't really any place in the world I would say I wouldn't say no to if given the chance to visit - except, of course, war/disaster zones.

Kim

Every place has something different to offer, and it is reasonable to expect people to be unenthusiastic or uninterested in what certain cities or countries have to offer. I don't believe this is to give any sort of offense to the country, or city, or to the people who live there. <BR> <BR>Personally I must admit every place has a different level of appeal to me, but there is no place I would not be willing to see, though obviously there has to be something at the bottom of my list. Though the only reason a country or city is given that position on my list is simply due to the degree of danger it offers me as a young white American female. It is not logical to think every place is even an option for me to travel to. <BR> <BR>As far as something on my list of 'not returning to' places, it is empty, but I think this is mostly due to my lack of travel… <BR> <BR>I have been to Vegas and absolutely loved it, though 4 days was enough, and I did not gamble once. It may be filled with casinos but that is not all there is to do, though I did enjoy touring all the different casinos (and of course the real thing is 100% better than their Paris, Venice, New York….). The shows there are the best in the world and completely amazing (as well as expensive…). <BR> <BR>As far as future travel, I am a little disappointed to hear that Greece and Jamaica were on a number of people's 'places I wouldn't go back to' lists… I am going to Jamaica this December/January and hope to have a wonderful time…any specific reason 'you' wouldn't go back (to the people who mentioned it) and am planning a trip to Greece this upcoming March (2001) and understand that it is just one of those places you have to go to at least once, but still hope it is a place I would go back to. <BR> <BR>I think a trip is what 'you' make of it, and I hope to see the best of every place I visit. I wouldn't like to put a place on my 'not to return to' list mostly because I think it is the fault of the traveler more than the location…. <BR> <BR>That was quite a long message and I thank the people who made it all the way through!

damyankee

Place to avoid like the plague: Atlanta! A city with no sense of history - if a building's over 50 years old, it's time to be torn down and replaced by an office building. Downtown closes down at 7PM (except for the strip joints catering to conventioneers). Downtowners travel uptown to Buckhead to drink themselves silly til 4AM when they can then get shot or stabbed by the locals or visiting football players and their entourages. Midtown consists of 67 streets with Peachtree in their name. (There are no real peach trees in Atlanta.) Second rate art museum; third rate symphony orchestra. Wretched school system; incompetent administration sitting back and overseeing a collapsing infrastructure: potholed roads, structurally impaired bridges, water pollution (multi-$1000 daily fines for polluting the Chattahoochee with wastes); impossible traffic congestion. The only city in America where 3 interstates converge in the heart of the city. <BR> <BR>Atlanta should advertise itself in the same way Chicago did last year with its gaily decorated cow sculptures on city street corners and Lexington, KY is doing this year with its horse sculptures. I see alternate Atlanta street corners peopled with statues of muggers and their victims. <BR> <BR>Workplace of John Rocker, true southern gentleman.

Jenelle

Maybe it's because I am from a country of (comparatively) such little history (USA); but I would give anything to visit just the places that you all won't touch. I mean come on, Russia, China, India! All these places have such an ancient mystique how could you not be loured? I read these posts with my mouth gaping open. <BR>It would be such a shame if these statements of places you could "do without" came from taking your ability to travel for granted. <BR>But...Unless it would be too "snobby" I would like to go on record saying that I too could do with out Dallas or Atlanta. Trust me, there's nothing exotic or mysterious about either of them.