martha python

I imagine my life would be much easier if I believed without reservation that "Travel lifts us out of the mundane and makes us think." If you pick the wrong place (for you), travel can throw you right into the mundane. I don't think travel makes us think; I don't think anything can make you think if you're not that way inclined. And if you are that way inclined, you don't need to travel to think, although you make like to travel because you like what it gives you to think about. <BR> <BR>At least, that's what I think. <BR> <BR>The only place I really liked in Germany was Heidelberg. As for the rest of it, you must all stop liking it immediately or I'll know you have no judgment at all.

Jem

To Elvira, I really do not think you can compare a flag with a country! I have no opinion about the flag, and if I did, I am sure there is probably a website dedicated to it. I came and had a look at this site because I thought it would be an informative EUROPEAN TRAVEL related site. Not a "free for all, put down other peoples countries (and homes)" site.

ilisa

Just because someone has no desire to visit a place does not mean he or she is putting it down. My g-d, I'm from New Jersey, and if I got upset every time someone truly put it down, I'd be more neurotic than Jemaine.

martha python

Ilisa, you're from Jersey? Which exit?

Konstantin

I'd gladly go to any country I've not been before, especially to those, listed by Al, IF i could be 100% sure that I won't get any exotic sickness or parasites or get troubles because of my race, citizenship, religion or the wallet too thick for the locals. As I think it's the main reason, right Al? <BR>By the way, what's the main reason for you to avoid my homeland Russia (just interesting)? <BR>

AJ

I have to agree with April, that travel interests change over the years. Changes can occur because of the age, health, and experience of the travelers, the politics and history of a country, and a multitude of different reasons. For example, my husband and I spent our early married years vacationing in Mexico, Jamaica, Bahamas and Caribbean islands, and began to bring our kids along when they were born. We probably visited Mexico 10 times or more, and loved it for its beaches and ambiance, but never really considered it a cultural or learning experience. Then we began European travel as a couple and with the children. We were just beginning to plan our March 2000 trip to Egypt to see primarily archeological sites, when our sons asked why can't we see the pyramids in Mexico instead. At first we refused to even consider it (been there, done that), then began to think about it. The Mexico that our kids wanted to see was quite different from our early trips to big hotels on the beach. Our trip is now planned for visiting five major Mayan and Toltec sites, several which are not seen on the bus tours. And Nick did some digging on the net, and found some other excellent ecological ventures, cenote diving, jungle stuff, and even visiting the school, and bringing in a load of supplies for the kids. <BR> <BR>So when I say "I can do without Podunk City", I mean "for now, I can do without Podunk City". But who knows, maybe Podunk City with the Paris of the new millenium!

elvira

Jermaine: <BR>You called Al a close-minded, opinionated snob because he dared to express some likes/dislikes. You stated your likes, but no one is allowed to state their dislikes? Wow, thank heavens the thought police are on the job. And it's good you're keeping us all in line here, reminding us not to diverge from the European theme. Sure hope I get to visit your neck of the woods someday.

ilisa

Martha, EXIT 9 AND DARN PROUD OF IT!!

Catherine

Martha, I stand by my statement.The mundane to me is, housework,shopping,cooking and going to work.If I am anywhere at all where I don't have to do those things then it isn't mundane.Travel is what you make it!!!! <BR>One would have to be an imbecile not to think, when you travel somewhere different.Travellers usually have much broader minds and interests than people who never go anywhere. <BR> <BR> <BR>

Neal Sanders

Al, you can be reliably depended upon to pose a fascinating question that, by the responses generated, cause me to re-examine the reasons for my own likes and dislikes. Assuming you have to have been someplace at least once in order to be able to do without it in the future, my list looks like this: <BR> <BR>Disney World. The smiles are as synthetic as Cinderella's castle. <BR>Las Vegas. Just as ersatz as Disney World, except almost no one is smiling. (Sorry, Erika!) <BR>Key West. My lingering memory is olfactory: Duval Street at 8 a.m.; the smell of stale beer mixed with vomit and urine. <BR>The French Quarter, New Orleans. It could be one of the nicest places in America, but over the years, it has evolved into a place where people go to get drunk. <BR>Caracas, Venezuela. Maybe it was because I was caught up in anti-American riots, but I was not impressed. <BR>Cairo, Egypt. Put 15 million people, too many of whom are poor, into a city. Add cars that ooze hydrocarbons. <BR>La Defense, Paris. The worst excesses of Euro-modern architecture, allowed to run rampant. <BR> <BR>Maybe it's a case of "familiarity breeds contempt," but most of the places I can do without tend to be in the United States, and several are places to which I've gone multiple times, increasingly unwillingly. Had I been to New Orleans or Las Vegas only once, my opinion wouldn't be nearly so negative. On the other hand, I had only to visit Disney World once to ensure I never get near the place again. <BR>

elvira

Will never go back: <BR>Milan - anyplace that has too many fur coats and not enough restaurants gets ixnayed from my to-do list. <BR>Nogales, Mexico - squalor mixed with Americans bargaining for a $2 doll is not my idea of a holiday. <BR>Germany & Austria - I got the creepiest feeling when I was there, like a black cat crossing my grave. Instinct says don't go back. <BR> <BR>Don't want to go, wish I could make myself want to: <BR>Africa that's not the desert: I hate jungle, and staying in an expensive hotel amongst dire poverty feels weird. <BR>Tokyo - New York but I can't read the signs. <BR>Shanghai/Singapore/Hong Kong - see above <BR>Vietnam - see "I hate jungle" <BR>Caribbean cruise - oh yawn <BR>Siegfried and Roy <BR> <BR> <BR>

Rosalita

Ilisa: <BR>Bruce Springsteen is from Jersey, so it's not all that bad!!!!! BRUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCE!!!!!!!

elvira

A quote I love from some dj sort: <BR>We ought to run Bruce for President; heck, he got people to actually LIKE New Jersey. And my mother was born in Atlantic City (pronounced "lannick city"), so I know all the Jersey jokes. <BR>Can't beat their tamatahs or coorn.

lisa

Have to agree that Athens tops my list of places visited that I hope never to return to -- polluted, unattractive, and unfriendly. I don't ever plan to go back to Milan either. In the US in the same category, the Wisconsin Dells made me retch (for some reason a family reunion was held there -- and no, we're not from Wisconsin. For the record, the family reunion was also held in Branson, MO one year, for which I sent my "regrets" and am so glad I did. Some places you just KNOW aren't for you). <BR> <BR>Place I've never visited that I have no desire to go to: Korea. Most of the rest of the world appeals to me! <BR> <BR>On the confederate flag issue: My boyfriend and I were driving down the road 2 weekends ago on the way from Virginia to New Jersey, and a car about 40 feet in front of us had a confederate flag bumper sticker on the rear bumper. We talked about how racist that was, until we approached the car to pass on the left and found to our surprise that a young black woman was driving. We were dumbfounded. Maybe claiming the symbol takes the sting out of it somehow? I still can't quite figure it out. At any rate, as a native Michigander who moved to North Carolina for several years, I never did adjust to seeing confederate symbols, but I did come to realize that it is genuinely viewed by many who live there as a historical symbol, and I've even met African-Americans in the south who collect confederate memorabilia. I certainly wouldn't have missed visiting Charleston for anything in the world, for the same reasons I wouldn't have missed New Orleans. Great architecture, great food, great history.

Erika

<BR>My dear friend Neal - you always make me smile! I didn't say I liked Las Vegas - just that it proves to be financially lucrative for me! It's better than a part-time job!

becky

The tower of london tour in London england. That was the most boring hour i've ever had. I never even finished the last 15min...i walked out. All u do is WALK up teh towers, and watch little videos along the way on how it was built. Nice for little kids, not if you're 13+ (my 13yr old sister even fell asleep!)

dan woodlief

Lisa. It's hard to know, but I have a feeling that the bumper sticker you saw was there when they bought the car, or it just happened to be on a sticker representing something different (such as a place they had been). I have lived in the South for all but eight years of my life, and I can tell you that it would be rare indeed for an African American to place a Confed. flag on something for reasons of regional pride. Yeah, you really don't have to believe in something to collect it. I consider myself fairly left of center, but I have a small collection of Nazi items (there is a huge market for these), out of historical interest. I am pretty careful about the way they are displayed though, since I would hate to offend visitors to my home or have them get the wrong idea. <BR> <BR>The thing is, most Southerners see nothing racist about that flag, and really many just use it as decoration. Then there are many who are interested in Civil War history or display it out of regional pride. There are an unfortunate few who display it for intentional racist reasons. The real controversy is with the states that fly it over capitol buildings where legislatures meet that are supposed to represent all the residents of the state (and all three states have large minority populations). As far as I know there is not any comparable feeling over having Confederate monuments at public buildings (a huge number of Southern cities and towns have these). Just as with any issue though, there are many in the offended group that are either apathetic about it or feel that it is not such a big deal.

Al

Someone above asked why I don't want to visit Russia. An unexamined prejudice on my part, I suppose. But, to be frank, I know that Russia (or rather the former Soviet Union) cost me about eight years of my life, most of it at sea, hoping that Ivan would not put a torpedo into our ship or a missile into downtown Cleveland. Untold billions of dollars and rubles disappeared down enormous rat holes. I have a queasy feeling that there was enough blame to go around on both sides. Fortunately, life goes on. <BR>But I see no reason for me to spend my dollars visiting Russia.

topper

any place this person is!! <BR> <BR>Al ([email protected])

Deb

I've been surprised at how this thread has gone. I would like to take a different tac. <BR> <BR>There have been places that were not high on my list to visit but I finally decided to go and for the most part, I have been pleasantly surprised. For example, I had been to Europe many times before I "brought" myself to finally go to Italy. Somehow I envisioned it so differently from how it was, that it stymied my going there. Well..guess what...I fell in love with Italy...so much so that I purposedly went back there the very next year and took my parents! <BR> <BR>Although I agree with some of the comments above and wouldn't necessarily make a point to go to these places again, I wouldn't have missed: 1) Athens (the ruins and the museum are worth it as is eating dinner at 11pm with flaming ouzo in front of you); 2)Bangkok (the temples are awesome though the pollution is difficult to deal with) 3) Las Vegas; & 4) Pisa (glad I saw the Leaning Tower and Baptistry). <BR> <BR>Al--South Africa is DEFINITELY worth a visit. Capetown is one of the most beautiful locations I have ever been to. And the Transvaal region is gorgeous. <BR> <BR>Although in the past, India was never high on my list now that I am hooked on safaris, I really want to go and see tigers in the wild. <BR> <BR>Deb <BR>