PalenQ

By allowed I meant tolerated once there - a simple check of documents that I believe Europeans must carry would show they are illegal - there are whole camps of illegals in various cities in Italy I understand - easier to spot them and give them the boot - better to assimilate them but France has learnt that that is pie in the sky.

pariswat

We should kill them all before they reach our borders.
Or at least ask them to wear a distinctive sign on their clothing, so that we would know who they are and take necessary precautions.

A yellow star ?

PalenQ

pariswat - my French son just returned from a 5-week trip back home to France and his uncle seriously suggested that all refugees who are allowed in or somehow come in should have a chip inserted under their skin - like dogs do - and be kept track of that way - he seriously suggested that retired people be recruited to do the implanting!

so at least for some French your ideas are not far out.

raincitygirl

Wow PalenQ, that's a pretty out there idea your son's uncle has!

No easy answer to the problem of illegal immigrants, many of them throw their documents away. I think some countries lack the political will to send them home or keep them in centres until they can be properly processed.

Italian friends have told me some towns are required to provide public housing for them, but yes, many of them end up in camps. We saw some of those outside Naples, I thought they were garbage dumps at first, it was bad.
Lots of the Italian ones end up working for the Mafia, all those ones you see selling the fake designer crap and going around selling socks and other little bits and pieces. They are apparently taken to a warehouse each day and given a sum of money and get to choose their stock. At the end of the day they have to pay back the money plus interest. I don't know how they survive and their own countries must be real hellholes for their European life to be better.

pariswat

Pq
Your uncle is a vet from the LVF ?

PalenQ

flanner - read carefully raincitygirl's excellent take - now you know why I used the term immigrant types? Poor folks stuck in camps who turn to petty crime to survive.

Capiche?

P_M

Last year I traveled to Rome alone (I am female) and I walked from the train station to my hotel while rolling my suitcase behind me. It was about a 10 minute walk. I walked in a very brisk pace and I kept looking all around me as I walked. I was OK but if it makes you uncomfortable then of course take a cab.

raincitygirl

Just to clarify PalenQ, by camps I meant make-shift shanty-town type camps, not official government sanctioned camps. Nobody is keeping them in there, what is keeping them in those living conditions is lack of money and probably lack of official paperwork.

sandralist

Just to clarify, what I wrote above is that most "Fodorites" cannot distinguish an immigrant from a Italian (let alone an immigrant or refugee with documents) and I stand by that assertion. And it obvious from continuing to read the thread that most people do talk on Fodor's as if their bigotry posed no negative consequence to vulnerable people -- and when this is pointed out, those who point it out are attacked by regular posters, who are more concerned with their petty selves and grudges and being a "Fodorite" in good standing than they are with Europe or other people.

Just about everything PalenQ pigheadedly believes about Italy and Fortress Europe based on one or two conversations or experiences is nonsense, and bigoted nonsense at that.

Pickpockets on the street in Rome -- the subject of this thread, not refugee camps and shanty towns -- would not exist if Italians were not making money off it. If Italians were not making money on it, the problem would vanish overnight. Italians are responsible for the security of the Italian train stations, and they have plenty of resources to clean it up if they can find a reason to do that. To continue to talk vaguely about "immigrant-types" is -- well, not just stupid but evil (don't flatter yourself thinking you are being bravely "politically correct."

Janisj, yestravel, I'm not here for you. But I won't dispute that is very, very hard to read what I read on Fodor's from Fodorties, and not want to undo it, for the sake of other people. It is contemptible, and it's too bad you want to attack me relentlessly for pointing it out.

sandralist

(You know, this travel website wouldn't be more informative for people traveling if I didn't post here. It would only be a more cozy place for a handful of people --- some of them quite mean and shallow -- who want the outlet for their egos.)

pariswat

Sandra
Everyone is entitled to having his/her opinions.
Yours are also quite enteresting, even if I find some exxagerated (I don't follow your reasoning here for example).

We are not binary, and we cannot consider that one is always right or always wrong. (Albeit some think they are always right, I'll grant you that)

I kind of like PalenQ even if I like to tease him, and I've found him giving quite a few good pieces of advice (when it comes from his first hand experience, not from his uncle...).

Except on Bruxelles

klabarba

I have been to Rome several times and travelled as a woman alone. Whilst I would avoid dragging my suitcase anywhere- because I want to avoid looking like a tourist (which is quite easy to do and very achievable)- I have never felt unsafe in Rome and have never been pick pocketed...

Get yourself a good over the body bag which zips shut- and even better- with a zip that clips once its shut so you can rest assured no ones going to get their hand in there no matter how distracted you get. Mine is Pacsafe and its served me well for years of travel. Always have it around your body even when sitting down so it can't be quickly snapped up.

Don't carry a map on your way from the station to the hotel...or anywhere for that matter (use your phone and google maps its MUCH less obvious that your a traveler that way) and don't stop for anyone asking you "where your going" "where your from" ect ect -safe travel is common sense. Look confident and like you know where your going, keep your valuables close and zipped up-its always worked for me.

bvlenci

I often disagree with Sandralist, and she often disagrees with me, but I would never suggest that she should abandon these forums. She has an excellent in-depth knowledge of Italy and has been a very useful resource for people planning a visit here. I've seen some people posting here who do seem to be flaunting their sophistication, simultaneously spreading misinformation.

bvlenci

It's almost impossible not to look like a tourist. It doesn't even make sense to try, because there are over 12 million tourists in Rome every year, and only about 100 pickpockets. As long as you don't look like easy pickings, they'll find someone more distracted.

Just stay alert, walk purposefully, and try not to look rich. As others have said, thieves are not likely to want your suitcase. They mostly want cash and phones, even more than credit cards. Violent crime is very rare in Rome.

I am often in Rome alone, and walk around after dark. (Anyway, I don't see where Blaneturner said she was arriving after dark.) I just use my regular shoulder bag, but keep it towards the front in crowded places. I've never felt the need for a money belt in Rome, and even though I've been going there several times a year since 1994, I've never had anything stolen from me there.

yestravel

Another, huh? "Attack me relentlessly" - not sure where that is coming from. Oh well, I hope the OP has gotten an answer to the question posted.

PalenQ

Just about everything PalenQ pigheadedly believes about Italy and Fortress Europe based on one or two conversations or experiences is nonsense, and bigoted nonsense at that.>

Um let's see over 50 visits to Europe, many of business over decades - I have more European travel overall than you do probably save for Italy perhaps. A collective several years spent in Europe - lived for three months at a time in France for a decade (when my French son was young) - you like to insult others without any basis really and then wonder why folks attack you - lose the persecution complex! -

IMDonehere

Interesting that the one poster who HAS come close to equating "immigrants" with thieves rarely loses an opportunity to attack those he thinks support Britain's Conservative party in general or Margaret Thatcher in particular.
_____

I did not know Maggie was immigrant. And a dead one at that.

rncheryl

Just a heads up: We were on a tour in Rome with a university alumni group. Arrived at the hotel before the rooms were ready. Luggage left in a remote corner of the lobby (Don't remember if there were more secure arrangements). One of our group left $$ and passports in their (locked) suitcases. Yes, you guessed it, all gone.

If it's important to you, keep it safely on your person, or in a safe.

raincitygirl

Well just to clarify, I will put my hand up as the one who got sidetracked by one of PalenQ's remarks. I do believe that there are Italian pickpockets and don't believe it is illegal immigrants for the most part that you have to watch out for. From what I have seen, the Africans seem to sell the knock off stuff and the little household items and the Bangladeshi's seem to sell the selfie sticks and sometimes goofy little toys. (some of them may well be there legally, but I bet most of them aren't)
I don't feel afraid of them, they are annoying occasionally but if you ignore them they go away. Mostly I feel sorry for them and wonder what their lives were like before to make this a better life.

There are Roma operating all over the place and if it is not PC to say so, well too bad. I am not saying all Roma do this but there are a significant number who do. Despite all my awareness I narrowly escaped being robbed in the Florence train station by a team of three..they were good, but not that good. And there are cops all over that train station, they just seem to turn a blind eye.

I feel perfectly safe in Europe to walk around with a regular handbag, taking the normal big city precautions etc. When friends ask for my advice I never want to scare them but just make them aware of what they may encounter.

raincitygirl

mcheryl, that is too bad and I'm not being snarky but what in the world would possess someone to leave money and passports in a suitcase, locked or otherwise?