Pet peeve: mispronounced French
May 15th, 2006, 12:42 PM
#42
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Speaking with a French accent works very well for improving French pronunciation—provided that the accent is truly a French accent, and not a "fake" accent like you might hear from Inspector Clouseau or Pepe Le Pew. These latter accents are for entertainment and there are many discrepancies between them and a real French accent. However, if you listen to real French people and imitate their accents when they speak English, it can improve your French pronunciation considerably. But then again, you can achieve similar results just by studying French pronunciation directly.
May 15th, 2006, 12:42 PM
#43
Forte -I have always pronounced this as fort-tay because I assumed it was Italian - you live and learn.
buffet = /byfɛ/ (double consonants are not pronounced separately in French)
lingerie = /lɛ̃ʒʁi/
chaise longue = /ʃɛz lõg/
Tis is really helpful - now how do I pronounce buffet = /byfɛ/, /lɛ̃ʒʁi/, /ʃɛz lõg/ - which loook like Klingon
(semi serious - where do these stange letters come from, and where do you learn how to pronounce them?)
buffet = /byfɛ/ (double consonants are not pronounced separately in French)
lingerie = /lɛ̃ʒʁi/
chaise longue = /ʃɛz lõg/
Tis is really helpful - now how do I pronounce buffet = /byfɛ/, /lɛ̃ʒʁi/, /ʃɛz lõg/ - which loook like Klingon
(semi serious - where do these stange letters come from, and where do you learn how to pronounce them?)
May 15th, 2006, 12:51 PM
#45
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Forte in music is Italian and thus pronounced for-tay.
In French it means strength and is pronounced just fort In order to be pronounced fortay it would require an accent aigu over the e, as in é.
In French it means strength and is pronounced just fort In order to be pronounced fortay it would require an accent aigu over the e, as in é.
May 15th, 2006, 12:56 PM
#47
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The strange characters are simply IPA symbols, used in dictionaries and other references to unambiguously indicate proper pronunciation (of any language, not just French). Their advantage is that you don't have to guess how to pronounce something, since a given IPA symbol can only be pronounced in one way.
You can find a small but useful table of IPA symbols here:
http://www.atkielski.com/main/IPAChart.html
A complete chart showing articulations can be found here:
http://www2.arts.gla.ac.uk/IPA/images/ipachart.gif
In addition, dictionaries that use the IPA often provide information on how to read it in a key somewhere.
You can find a small but useful table of IPA symbols here:
http://www.atkielski.com/main/IPAChart.html
A complete chart showing articulations can be found here:
http://www2.arts.gla.ac.uk/IPA/images/ipachart.gif
In addition, dictionaries that use the IPA often provide information on how to read it in a key somewhere.
May 15th, 2006, 01:00 PM
#48
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I give due respect to people who are making an honest attempt to speak another language and falling short of perfection.
I don't cut any slack for mispronouncing foreign words that are being used to impress others with the speaker's sophistication.
I see a number of posters agree with me. Shall we put it to a vote?
I don't cut any slack for mispronouncing foreign words that are being used to impress others with the speaker's sophistication.
I see a number of posters agree with me. Shall we put it to a vote?
May 15th, 2006, 01:06 PM
#50
Anthony - thank you, that was most useful. I have one other question. When it gives the example as :
/ʒ/ leisure /liʒɚ/ gèle /ʒɛl/
is that English English as in les (to rhyme with the turkish hat Fez, or American English as in Leez to rhyme with ease ?
This explaining pronunciation is harder than it looks.
/ʒ/ leisure /liʒɚ/ gèle /ʒɛl/
is that English English as in les (to rhyme with the turkish hat Fez, or American English as in Leez to rhyme with ease ?
This explaining pronunciation is harder than it looks.
May 15th, 2006, 01:24 PM
#52
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I agree with Janis, NYTraveler, Guy, Francophile and Pausanias, this is truly an obnoxious thread.
By the way a famous singer from the fifties was Fabian Forte - last name pronounced FOR TAY. Maybe someone should enlighten him that he has been mispronouncing his last name for years, he then in turn can enlighten his parents as well.
My French is minimal and I try as hard as I can to perfect the pronunciation of the language. Some of these remarks are only intimidating those of us who make an effort.
Get a life!!!!!
By the way a famous singer from the fifties was Fabian Forte - last name pronounced FOR TAY. Maybe someone should enlighten him that he has been mispronouncing his last name for years, he then in turn can enlighten his parents as well.
My French is minimal and I try as hard as I can to perfect the pronunciation of the language. Some of these remarks are only intimidating those of us who make an effort.
Get a life!!!!!
May 15th, 2006, 02:12 PM
#55
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If we try to speak French (even though we don't speak French) -so as not to not be one of those ugly people from the US who assumes that everyone speaks English- then we will most likely mispronounce some words.
If we do not , then there is the ugly person from American label to pin on us.
Which is it going to be?
I agree with the nytraveler and really, having lived in NYC for a long time, I never laughed at nor did I get peevish when a German/Japanese/Italian or French person/tourist asked for directions in Broken English.
I treated them just the way I am treated in Europe when I try.
That would be politely and with a smile.
Robes. you are making me cranky and you are doing it in English
If we do not , then there is the ugly person from American label to pin on us.
Which is it going to be?
I agree with the nytraveler and really, having lived in NYC for a long time, I never laughed at nor did I get peevish when a German/Japanese/Italian or French person/tourist asked for directions in Broken English.
I treated them just the way I am treated in Europe when I try.
That would be politely and with a smile.
Robes. you are making me cranky and you are doing it in English
May 15th, 2006, 02:31 PM
#57
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Due respect? That's not the way it sounds and so glad YOU can tell the difference. I think I'll keep my improper french to myself, I don't appreciate getting giggled at when I'm making an attempt...so afraid I'll make a "fox paws"..oh dear, have I done it? Oh no!!!!!!
May 15th, 2006, 02:45 PM
#59
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The interesting thing about <i>fox paws</i> is that people who use it <u>know</u> it's fractured French and say it for comic effect. People who say <i>lawnzheray</i> think they're being clever.
wtm003 - please state your point (if you have one).
wtm003 - please state your point (if you have one).
May 15th, 2006, 02:48 PM
#60
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Just this morning I went downstairs to my office tower's cafeteria for my morning bagel & cream cheese, and overheard a co-worker speak English all except for the croissant "cwah-san" and like Robes, I had to giggle to myself.
I don't see it as murdering French, but screwing up a perfectly good order just to rub in the fact that one knows (or thinks she knows) how to pronounce "croissant".
If you want to see a snob, try speaking English with a foreign accent to most Americans outside of coastal cities with a large immigrant population.
We can cop an attitude faster than the French in that vein.
Personally, when I hear someone make an honest attempt to speak any language other than their own, I do respect that person more, just because they're trying. I'm one of those people that would rather have a very small, well-pronounced vocabulary over a very large, badly-pronounced one. And I think that's to my own detriment.
Jules
I don't see it as murdering French, but screwing up a perfectly good order just to rub in the fact that one knows (or thinks she knows) how to pronounce "croissant".
If you want to see a snob, try speaking English with a foreign accent to most Americans outside of coastal cities with a large immigrant population.
We can cop an attitude faster than the French in that vein.
Personally, when I hear someone make an honest attempt to speak any language other than their own, I do respect that person more, just because they're trying. I'm one of those people that would rather have a very small, well-pronounced vocabulary over a very large, badly-pronounced one. And I think that's to my own detriment.
Jules
