Guenmai

egwright10: I'm glad you posted your experiences and I had to smile while reading some of your items. I've been basically going to Paris, almost annually, since the mid-70s and when I think back to the very first trip, I can understand many of your observations.

It's a list that could help some newbies, so I see no harm in posting it. Glad you had a great trip.

Happy Travels!

Ackislander

I liked all your observations. They are among the observations I made on my earliest trips abroad, and they are things that still strike me after many trips. I think those who were critical must have been in a cranky mood yesterday since all you offered were your observations. Others have followed up with additional good observations.

France is a high context society, a place where there are many rules, and we don't know them until we learn them. You have done very well except on the ticket issues, where I shudder to think what would have happened had you been caught. I will simply say that ignorance of the law is no excuse. But you were lucky!

I hope you are looking forward to your next trip. The tough part will be deciding whether to go back to Paris, where you already know a lot of the rules, or going to England or Italy, where there is a whole new set of rules to learn!

Gretchen

As for the dinner hour, we are of course talking about restaurants. When I'm on vacation, in the US or Paris, we eat late--maybe not 10, but usually 8. But we have always eaten later than 6 for sure!!
And something not exactly covered by the checklist, that table at dinner is "yours" for the evening, if you want to linger. And the waiter will not be constantly pushing you for your next course, and most especially for your check--you have to ask for it.
And yes, Europeans have learned MUCH better than we have to be conservation minded and bring bags--otherwise you can pay for them. Take your bags HERE to the supermarket. We don't need more plastic.
Also, definitely in the no nap the first day group.

Nikki

Hoosier Reader, I see nobody has answered your question about the kids trying to get people to sign their petitions. This is a form of panhandling. People approach you with petitions to sign and ask for donations for phony charities.

nytraveler

Yes - but Paris isn't a small town or a rural area. Why would one expect it to be like a small town - rather than like other large cities?

Unless the OP hasn't eve visited other large cities - or somehow missed the differences between big cities and rural areas - or eaten in real restaurants versus fast food joints - many of these things should NOT be a surprise.

I 'm sorry if I sound cranky - but I feel like I just saw a huge list of items like:

The earth isn't flat and you won't fall off
The streets are full of traffic
Everyone in France speaks French
You don;t get automatic refills on all your beverages (you don't in cities in the US either - or in restaurants anywhere)
They don;t serve breakfast at 6 am (no - most people are still sleeping - same as in the US)

Ackislander

One of the questions I would ask when doing workshops on cultural differences is this:

You are invited to a party at 6 PM. What time do you actually arrive?

The differences, like when one appropriately eats dinner, were enormously varied. And these were only from people who live in the United States.

The fact that everyone else in the world laughs at New Yorkers who stand "on" line rather than "in line" doesn't stop New Yorkers from saying it nor mean that they don't ever get to the head of the line.

These are customs. No one is born knowing customs. You don't learn about what it is like to be in Rome from Woody Allen's latest fantasy. You learn the way children learn, but bumping up against things and adjusting your behavior. We don't slap children who don't know how to eat an artichoke. We explain and encourage them.

My family never ate dinner before 7:30, by the way, and I have eaten artichokes since I was a toddler.

LSky

It doesn't matter to me where I am, since I wake up with the sun, I like to eat dinner early.

It's never been a problem for me to eat at 6 or 7 wherever I've been.

The only place it hasn't made sense for me to get up at the crack of dawn is Spain. The last time we were there it was difficult to get an early morning coffee so we got into the rhythm of the late night dining.

Nikki

"Yes - but Paris isn't a small town or a rural area. Why would one expect it to be like a small town - rather than like other large cities?"

Restaurant hours in Paris are not like restaurant hours in the US, including large cities. In Paris, most restaurants (as opposed to brasseries and cafes) are not open for dinner until 7:30 or later. In the US, including every large city I know, including New York, restaurants are open for dinner much earlier than that. If you are expecting restaurants to be open at 6:00, it is useful to know that in Paris they are not.

If you are expecting dinner at a restaurant to take an hour to an hour and a half, it is useful to know that in Paris it takes longer.

The list is things that the original poster learned. If they were new to her, they will be new to somebody else also.

janisj

nyt: At the finest restaurants in SF for example dinner service can start at 5:00 or 5:30 . . . Why do you find it so hard to understand why the later hours could be surprising to a first time visitor?

tarquin

I agree with E G that the begging in the streets, whether overt or as post-petition signing, is surprising and disconcerting. Even in England it is veiled as Big Issue selling.

sofarsogood

<< ... begging in the streets, whether overt or as post-petition signing, is surprising and disconcerting. Even in England it is veiled as Big Issue selling.>>

wrong, wrong, wrong.

The Big Issue exists to offer homeless people and those at risk of homelessness the opportunity to work and earn an income. Sellers have to buy the paper then sell it for a profit which they keep.

I have never encountered any seller behaving in any way that could be described as begging. They are polite and never insistent.

Even David Cameron described The Big Issue as ‘a fantastic example of how we can reduce dependence on state hand-outs’.

egwright10

nytraveler- I have traveled to several big cities throughout the US: San Diego, Los Angeles, San Francisco, Phoenix, Chicago, Miami, DC, Philadelphia, and New York. However, dinner is always available by 5:00 in any of those places regardless of the type of restaurant you choose to dine in. Even with kids we don't eat fast food so your suggestions in regards to that are ridiculous. I feel as though you live a very different life from the people I know. In my world being up and even out of the house before 6am isn't unusual. So suggesting that you can't get breakfast at 6am because most people are still sleeping is ridiculous. In Phoenix, most people are leaving the house before 7am for work. And you DO usually get automatic drink refills at restaurants in the US. So you don't like my list? Don't comment. Have a little class.

apersuader65

I knew there was a reason I didn't want to return to NYC for anymore visits. Now I remember why.

I will return to Paris next year, though.

LSky

I would rather have people trying to sell me a paper than the "I will work for food" guys we have on our street corners in San Diego.

It's also better to see people working at taking care of a public restroom than hanging around doing nothing while they collect public assistance here.

egwright10

apersuader65- Haha! Funny. The thing is, my OP mentioned the manners of the French...for a guy who seems to know so much about traveling and Paris, he appears to have forgotten those classic French manners. Oh well.

On a separate note, I've now been home for 3 days and the longer I am away from Paris, the more I want to return. I found myself dreaming of cappuccino and soupe a l'oignon gratinee today, as well as the sound of french being spoken around me and the beautiful views around every corner. I assume this is normal for those of you who love Paris?

egwright10

LSky- the kids I saw were all deaf and were trying to get people (tourists really, as they were conveniently placed at very tourist heavy areas) to sign their petitions and give a MINIMUM donation of 70E! We were bombarded by these kids on a bridge by Notre Dame, Place du Tertre, and the Eiffel Tower. There were easily 15 kids at each post and so we weren't asked just once, but several times at each location. No one tried to sell us anything, they just wanted "donations".

Most of the people asking for money on the streets really played the sympathy card to get money- they had puppies, were dressed in military uniform, and even had their children!- on the street with them. The funny thing was, that we saw several of these people get up and talk on their cell phones. The one thing was was VERY different in comparison to the homeless in the US, not even one of those people directly asked for money and they were genuinely polite to those people who put money in their cups- they always said thank you. In the US I have been yelled at for not giving people money.

vjpblovesitaly

"When you're used to stores opening at 5:00am and people being out to run or get to work before 6:00am, 9:00 was late"

Where do you live that so many stores (and what type?) open at 5:00 a.m.?

maitaitom

"I found myself dreaming of cappuccino and soupe a l'oignon gratinee today, as well as the sound of french being spoken around me and the beautiful views around every corner. I assume this is normal for those of you who love Paris?"

and escargot...and vin rouge at a cafe in the rain...and Beef Bourguignon...and...."

Every day away from Paris just makes me want to return. I only wish there was a way we could be beamed there like Star Trek (see your #27).

denisea

Don't get too worked about the posts that seem negative. There are always some whose posts seem a bit sharp! There will definitely be lots of disagreements no matter what you post.

But, yes....I always miss my cafe creme and pain au chocolat (and all things Paris) when I get home.

egwright10

vjpblovesitaly- I live in a suburb north of Phoenix. The grocery stores here all open either at 5:00 or 6:00am. The drug stores (CVS, Walgreens) open at 8:00. Where I grew up, in Western NY, the grocery is open 24 hours a day.