pariswat

So

My daughter comes back from her first trip to Paris on her own, with a friend of her who had never been before.

we booked the hotel quite late and found a nice one in 14th arr, close to Porte d'Orléans - so a little bit more metro than more centrally located.
They liked the area.

They walked a lot, used up about 5 metro tickets a day each.
They climbed the 710 steps of Eiffel Tower up to second floor, no queue.
Walked Les champs to Concorde.
Walked around the Seine each day around Notre Dame.
Took a vedette for a cruise on the Seine.
Went to Sacré Coeur.
Didn't even get lost too oftne in metro or in city.
Didn't visit any museum (teenagers) but did some shopping (girls).

Didn't feel unsafe but were 'cruised' by several young men in the metro several times.
Were approached by the petition girls several times (I had forgotten to warn her) and they just said no. My daughter was appalled at the way these girls behaved when a US tourist gave them 20 €, he wasn't even far away that they shouted 'Yessss' and were giggling between themselves..

Ate in some brasseries in touristy areas (was raining yesterday) were treated like ... by waiters who couldn't care less. Never left a tip. Had some sushis that they liked.

they had a great and fantastic time.

nytraveler

Glad they had a good time but ca;t believe they didn't do any museums. My first trip to europe (19 with my BF) I got to every museum I could nail down. But then I have never been a hopper although I did do some window shopping and spent a brief time in one of the major stores to have lunch on the roof. (And my BF would have been bored silly with shopping.)

Lois2

sounds very typical for young girls and actually they covered alot of great sights. I completely believe they did not delve into museums..for most kids that age museums are not first priority...they love the streets and buzz of the city.

kerouac

I think this is an excellent overview of a young person's trip to Paris, and pariswat is probably very lucky to have a daughter who was willing to give so many details of what she and her friend did (perhaps to better hide the things that she did not tell ).

However, there are two details missing that would be very important for a lot of the readers here: the age of the girls and where they were from. Many North American parents would not want to let their girls loose halfway around the planet, but I don't think that this is the case here.

As for the interests of young people, I made my first solo trip to Europe when I was 17. It wasn't planned that way, since I tried to recruit various friends to go along, and they were all enthusiastic about the idea but for some reason when it came time to think about paying for an airplane ticket and other finances, I was the only person left. That absolutely did not stop me, but it seems to stop quite a few people.

Anyway, I had been on family trips to France before and had been to the Louvre, the Invalides, the Eiffel Tower, etc. before, so if I had come with a friend with no interest in seeing those places, I don't think it would have bothered me all that much (but maybe I am wrong about that -- I probably would have lobbied very strenuously to convince the other person). Having grown up in a place with absolutely nothing to see or do, it went without saying for me to see every single museum or monument that I could go to, anywhere in Europe. Then again, I was not a normal child.

As for things that I would never have told my parents, there was plenty of that, but somehow I survived. And when I think back about those parts, very many years later, they were some of the best things I did, even if they are still illegal.

bvlenci

These days a 17-year-old couldn't go to Europe alone, even if their parents didn't mind. Hotels won't rent rooms to them, to start with.

I never traveled to Europe on my own as a teenager; it would have been absolutely beyond my financial possibilities, but I did a lot of things then that wouldn't be possible now.

In those days you could work at age 14. You could get married (where I lived) at age 16 without parental consent. I knew a 16-year-old who was given custody of her younger siblings when their parents died in an accident. The only thing that's got easier to do at a younger age since I was a teenager is having sex.

pariswat

Yes Ker, good remark !

My daughter and her friend are both 17.
They come from Belgium, and speak French (at home).
(They do speak some Flemish too, but it is of no use in Paris.) They came by bus to save some money compared to the Thalys. Took 4 hours instead of 1,5 hour - but it was their choice.

I wasn't expecting that the hotel would make a problem about the age, having read so many times about teens going on their own to Paris - but would have come myself (I was in Paris too the first day of their visit).

They also went to 'le jardin des plantes' and accepted a dinner with myself the first evening... (Il Far'Niente in 14e, very good italian restaurant).

I do expect they did things I will hear of later, much later maybe but everything went ok !

kerouac

<b>These days a 17-year-old couldn't go to Europe alone</b>

Do you have any documentation about that, bvlenci? I made this trip in 1971 when I was most definitely a minor in every single country that I visited (France, Luxembourg, Belgium, Netherlands, Germany, Denmark, Sweden, Norway, Finland, Switzerland, Austria, Italy, Spain, Portugal, Monaco, United Kingdom) at a time when you had to present your passport to get a hotel room. And I most certainly did not look any older than my age. Not a single hotel in any country ever told me that I could not get a room. And since those times, a great number of the countries no longer require any sort of identification to rent a room. In France, there are even automatic machines in many of the chains that allow you to get a room without even seeing anybody at reception.

I think that age 16 was and continues to be the accepted age for independent travel in Europe.

Interestingly enough, I repatriated to France at age 20 but took an Italian ship to get from New York to Cannes. For that trip, my parents were obliged to sign authorization because minors under age 21 were not allowed to take a trip on an Italian ocean liner.

justineparis

Sounds like girls had a fun trip.. and of course with no language barrier they did have an advantage.. plus with all your trips I bet you did give them lots of ideas..I am not surprised they did not visit the museums.. and preferred to shop, but not all teenagers are like that.. my daughter was very interested in musuems, but she also liked to shop.

I am also not surprised they accepted a dinner invite from you.. FREE dinner! My kids always accept dinner invitations from us.. and they are older then your kids! Its actually something we enjoy anyways. Last trip they went to a music festival a few hundred miles away on mainland.. but were happy to meet us after in a nearby resort for a free dinner and a free night in a hotel with a shower and flush toilet( music festivals here are very basic, tents and porta potties!)

Your kids are lucky to live in Europe and will no doubt be experienced travellers within a few years.
Tell them when I was young my favorite place to visit was the Greek islands.. the food, the nightlife, the beaches.. ah.. fond memories.

Ps can't believe you forgot to tell them about the petition girls!

bvlenci

I don't doubt that you could get a hotel room at age 17 in the 1970s, and maybe even younger. I don't think you can now. As I said, only one thing has gotten easier to do at a younger age.

In Italy, the law prohibits renting hotel rooms to minors (under 18 years of age) unless their parents fill out a form authorizing the stay.

http://www.lineaamica.gov.it/rispost...i-presso-hotel

I'm not so great at searching the web in French, but it appears that the same is true in France:

http://www.meilleurevasion.com/discu...tel-.5810.html

I'm not sure I understand the situation, but it seems that perhaps Pariswat reserved the room for his daughter and her friend.

I remembered another thing I was able to do at age 16, and that in most places you can no longer do: I got a completely unrestricted drivers license at age 16.

My father emigrated alone to the US as a minor.

nytraveler

Yes, many people's ancestor emigrated to the US as minors - often to stay with older family/friend there. My great grandmother emigrated from Ireland at 17 to stay with an older, married sister in NYC.

But that was many years ago - and then 17 was an adult who was working and self-supporting for most families.

Not sure of the rule on hotels in europe since I was 19 the first time I went - and my BF 23 - and room was in his name.

And in the US in many states you can still get a license at 16 - and in some a learner's permit at 15, although here it's 18 since we have too many drivers on the road at it is.

teacherCanada

I've looked at hostels in France lately and one must be 18 or over to book a bed in the hostels I researched. Under 18's are allowed if they are staying with an over 18 person.

tC

kerouac

The FUAJ site just says you need written authorization from your parents for ages 16 and 17.

http://www.fuaj.org/f-a-q

bvlenci

Kerouac, is that any different from what I said? Minors can't legally sign a contract and a hotel rental is considered a contract. Ergo, according to the law, they can't rent a hotel room.

It's the same as the Italian source I quoted (which was a government source, so presumably (?) reliable, except that the Italian source added that minors can't leave home without parental permission.

kerouac

Yes, it is quite a bit different actually. Just one paper from a parent or guardian is sufficent for going to any of these places. There is no "form" to fill out.

Hotel do not ask for any proof of age or even for an identity document in France, except the expensive ones where guests tend to steal things.

pariswat

Obviously nobody asked my daughter's ID.
Neither did anybody ask for her Id when she ordered alcohol beverage(s) : I can't believe she only drank water during her stay...

bvlenci

Actually, the only Italian form I saw was a suggested one issued by the association of hoteliers. The Italian government web page I gave a link for just says the written consent of a parent or guardian, with a copy of an identity document attached (I assume the child's).

I would think a hotel would want to be assured that the person renting the hotel room was not a minor, if a minor can't make a contract. If the guest didn't leave, or wouldn't pay, it would be rather difficult to resolve the situation if there were no valid contract.

Pariswat, did your daughter and her friend go alone to a hotel to rent a room? It's not altogether clear to me from what you've said.

manouche

Most hotels are booked online with a credit card (at least for the deposit). ParisWat probably took care of this before his daughter arrived. No doubt she had the card to use for the initial imprint and the final bill. If the kids presented themselves well, there wouldn't be any reason for the desk clerk to question them.

It is not at all unusual for teenagers to drink in cafes. We live near a couple of colleges and there are always kids no older than 16 who skip class and go sit in the neighborhood cafes having Panache's and Monaco's until it's time to go home. Nobody ever asks for ID.

pariswat

Manouche
I exactly did that.

Paid 2 nights via my 'miles' from hotels.com and paid the third online with CC (no deposit, but prepaid).
When my daughter arrived, they were asked to pay the local tax, then shown to their room.

My daughter has managed to get alcohol (at least beer) from cafés since she is 14 years old. That means I still beat her by half a year.

welltraveledbrit

<Many North American parents would not want to let their girls loose halfway around the planet> or even in their own city....

pariswat - how refreshing to read about someone letting their kid do their own thing, have their own experiences, and make their own mistakes. I can tell you there isn't enough of this in California!

My brother went on his first trip abroad (from the UK sans parents) when he was 15. Five days cycling in Belgium and Holland with his friends. They drank too much, had all sorts of adventures (which we only heard about years later) and he came home just fine.

Self esteem comes from doing things for yourself and taking responsibility, luck for your daughter and her friends that they both have parents understand that.

justineparis

welltravledbrit.. to be fair.. Pariswats daughter is only a few hours from home, and speaks the language.. much like perhaps when our kids go to neighboring towns for music concerts or camping with their friends( well my kids did that at 16 and 17 ).