Yes, if it is on the list, the building has obviously authorized holiday rentals in the appropriate apartments.

I guess I don't get the criteria...the building in general is on the list...that means there short term rentals are okay with the governing board/owner etc. but I thought criteria was also having the owner living in the said apartment xxx number of days per year? So there can still be apartments in that building at that address are not being rented legally...correct? I guess I don't get the usefulness of this list without specific apts being listed.

<i> I guess I don't get the usefulness of this list without specific apts being listed.</i>

Is it not obvious the usefulness of the list? If an apartment address is not on the list, then there is absolutely no chance that said apartment has been approved by the city as a full time, vacation rental.

In Paris, specific apartments are identified by the owner/resident´s name, not by a number. Even having the owner´s name is probably not useful to you because listing agencies do not advertise or promote properties based upon who owns them.

The list is not meant to be used as a direct source for apartment hunting in Paris.

<i>I guess I don't get the criteria...the building in general is on the list...that means there short term rentals are okay with the governing board/owner etc.</i>

By a building being included on the city´s list, that means that one or more owners of one or more apartments within that building have met the governments requirements, allowing the owner(s) to offer their apartment(s) to be rented on a short term basis without restrictions.


<i>but I thought criteria was also having the owner living in the said apartment xxx number of days per year?</i>

Without the specific approval of the government, an individual owner/occupant may offer his personal apartment for short term rental not to exceed 120 days a year. This provision is completely different from someone´s purchasing an apartment to be offered primarily as a vacation rental.

What is clearly illegal is for owners to offer their apartments as short term rentals if either:

1. The apartment has not been specifically granted short term rental status by the city.

2. The owner is not himself the principal resident of the apartment so offered.

Thank you all, I am so glad for your info. I had started a thread a few weeks ago regarding how to tell an apartment was legal, and had decided on taking Paris out of the vacation running for the next few years. But on this thread, I found a apart'hotel I could afford! Thank you so much Sarastro, for the link to the Hotel Residence Henri IV - that is where I am going to stay. Unless there is something I don't know, it is perfect: legal, has a kitchenette, good location, I can afford it, and I am not contributing to the housing issue in Paris. So - please, if there IS something I don't know, I would appreciate the education.
Respectfully,
Kelly

There is always the link for legal apart-hotels which is useful: http://www.cityzenbooking.com/fr/r-3...FQX3wgodZaUP-Q

Does the agreement that the City of Paris has with AirBnB as of March 31st, 2016 mean ANYTHING?

We all know that AirBnB is collecting the city tax as of November 1st, 2015.

Will AirBnB turning over the taxes collected help to determine legal or illegal? OR

Isn't it now up to the city of Paris to determine legal or illegal.

It's not up to me.

For me, having been called ethically and morally corrupt in past posts and have seen this subject explored to the inth degree, if I were going to Paris next month, I would definitely consider Paris Perfect or AirBnB.

And Pariswat, I would love to sit down with you over a glass of wine--you?

Definitely Iris !
Red wine preferably.

<i>Does the agreement that the City of Paris has with AirBnB as of March 31st, 2016 mean ANYTHING?</i>

People have tried to infer all kinds of things in reference to airbnb´s agreeing to collect and to pay the taxe de séjour. The agreement only has to do with the taxe de séjour, absolutely nothing else.

>>People have tried to infer all kinds of things in reference to airbnb´s agreeing to collect and to pay the taxe de séjour. The agreement only has to do with the taxe de séjour, absolutely nothing else.<<

Same story here in San Francisco. Paying the Hotel Tax and then offering "legal" rentals are two separate issues.

Stu Dudley

[absolutely nothing else]

Well, it seems to me that the city of Paris is giving all the rentals of AirBnB, [60,000] each one hundred and twenty days to rent and at the end of that time the city would send a letter to the owner of those rentals to ensure their compliance to current laws. This as of March 31st, 2016.

If that's the tax you are talking about, OK!!

AirBnB agreed to collect the tax as of November 1st, 2015.

Or are you talking about that tax?

<i>Well, it seems to me that the city of Paris is giving all the rentals of AirBnB, [60,000] each one hundred and twenty days to rent</i>

Interesting iris1745. I think that this has been explained over and over. The 120 day exemption only applies to apartments which are an owners official, full time residence.

The 120 day exemption does not apply to an owner´s vacation apartment, investment property, a renter´s apartment, a sublet, a foreign owner´s apartment, or any apartment which is not owned by its full time occupant.

I am sure that there are a number of airbnb apartments which qualify under the owner/occupant rule but no where near 60,000.

[but no where near 60,000]

OK, how many??

Of course you don't know.

But the agreement, March 31st, 2016, seems to imply more than just collecting the tax you suggested.

You could be right. Go back and read the link I offered.

iris

I think Satastro is mainly talking about the issue if whether the Apt is "legal" - registered with the city, primary residence, number of days per year "guests" are allowed, etc.

The scenario is following the same path as here in SF;
Approx year
A. 2014......... Tax the rentals via AirBnB or whoever
B. 2015......... Pass laws stating that each apt has to register with the city and rented no more than 90 days/yr & other restrictions on the apt owner
C. late 2015...... Realize that the passed law is unenforceable unless info is provided by AirBnB as to the owner's address, days rented, etc.
D. 2016....... Draft new law that requires AirBnB to obtain registration certificate number from each of their listings, the address of the listing, and # days rented, and provide this info to the City. Fine of $1,000/day per rental to AirBnB for not doing this. Hope that the new law passes in the next election.

Summary
1. AirBnB collects the tax along with the rental fee, and passes the tax on to the City
2. Apt owner obtains certificate from The City, and passes it on to AirB&B
3. AirB&B reports to the City - the rental address, certificate #, days rented. If a rental is rented through multiple rental agencies - hopefully the City will tally them up

Go Warriors!! (iris is a basketball fan)

Stu Dudley

[iris is a basketball player at 81] Go Warriors.

C. Late 2015.

That is when AirBnb started collecting the tax and then passed the tax information on to the city. [Nov. 1st]

The city now knows the owner of the rental when it receives the tax information and if it is registered with the city. Yes or NO

This has been said over and over. Perhaps it is not accurate.

I believe in the past I have provided links.

Anyways, getting close to my bed time.

And Stu, BB today I was pretty good against 'kids'. Well, I did have a 50 plus YO guarding me---old guy.

I have no doubt that the government can use the hotel tax information for a great deal more than just collecting the taxe de séjour. The data base that will evolve will aid the government in determining if owner´s declare apartment revenues to income tax authorities, if owners are legally or illegally operating their apartments, and in fining owners who operate illegally.

However, there was never any doubt that airbnb and others like them had been skirting the law by not collecting the tax and forwarding the amounts to the city. At the time of the discussions, airbnb´s biggest concern was that they were liable for years of back taxes that they had never collected nor paid. Effectively, airbnb dodged a big bullet by agreeing to pay the tax in the future, thereby avoiding the city´s pursuing the back tax issue.

The taxe de séjour or hotel tax issue applies to anyone who rents vacation apartments, even resident owners; not just to airbnb.

>>That is when AirBnb started collecting the tax and then passed the tax information on to the city. [Nov. 1st]

The city now knows the owner of the rental when it receives the tax information and if it is registered with the city. Yes or NO<<<

NO

At that time, the owner & address was not "passed on" to the City. AirBnB knows who the owner is, but because of "privacy" claims by AirBnB, they would not disclose the info. Definitely no "registered" info. That was why the original "laws" were claimed to be unenforceable by everyone on both side of the issue. Just recently, the City drew up more stringent "proposals" for AirBnB that will be on the ballot soon. AirBnB is giving lots of $$$$ to politicians, everyone's favorite "charities", and trying very hard to influence voters.

Halftime in the Warriors game.

Stu Dudley

kerouac - how did anyone determine that the properties in the link you provided are legal?

I see Adagio and some others that qualify, but it seems that many other apartments are listed on other websites, such as AirBnB, VRBO, etc.

I would be cautious using this list, since most agencies and individuals have caught on to the benefits of listing an illegal rental apartment as an "apart'hotel".

If there is not a front desk staff available 24/7 - and there should be a photo on the website - chances are very good that the rental won't be legal.

Paris data link but in French, don't complain, just sharing the link. I know many hate Adrian but good info none the less.

http://adrianleeds.com/component/acy...tmpl=component

I don't hate Adrian - in fact, I have met her several times and rented from her agency 7 years ago. But I am astounded by the fact that someone who has lived for 20 years in Paris and operates a business here categorically refuses to comprehend the French mentality, and insists on trying to conduct business like an American entrepreneur. Comparing the Mayor of Paris to a Nazi Storm Trooper because she was forced to sell some of her illegal rental property is obviously not a step in the right direction.