NeoPatrick

Last year when we bought our first Carte Orange passes, the girl selling them clearly knew we were tourists and probably didn't know what we were doing. I had printed information off the internet and figured we'd go back to our place and add the pictures or whatever. But she asked if we had the pictures and asked for them. She got out her scissors, cut them to fit, and then glued them into our passes and showed us where to sign them. I can't imagine a ticket seller in New York or most anywhere else doing that!
We were lucky that we got the friendliest agent in town, but it really is your own responsibility to know what to do with the thing.

kerouac

I've had a permanent pass for years, Neo, but that's the way the ticket agents used to do it for everybody, back in the early days of the Carte Orange. I have no idea if it is still part of their training.

Christina

I've had one for years, and I think the clerk pasted the photo on for me when I first got it, but that was many years ago. I don't agree with roundtrip at all, it isn't the clerks job to babysit people and the OP did know she was supposed to have the card. That's the whole point.


While I agree with most of what djbooks says, I don't agree with this statment:

<<according to the RAPT website, Carte Orange is intended for residents only, anyway - as it is heavily funded by taxpapers.> It doesn't say that in French. It doesn't say anything about being funded by the taxpayers at all. I don't see anything that could be translated as it being "intended" for residents, either, but it was designed for commuters for work were the ones who were seen to have a need for this kind of pass. I don't see that it says anything even close to that on there, anyway, but I know it doesn't say anything about taxpayers. Children don't get reduced rates for a Carte Orange, either, and that's because it was planned for adult commuters, also. They describe the Carte Orange on www.parisinfo.com and it doesn't say anything on there about being funded by taxpayers and being intended for residents, either -- in French or in English, which it does have.

This is the exact complete English description of the Carte Orange on the Paris Tourist Office website which, by definition, is information not for residents:

<<Carte Orange
A weekly or monthly pass valid for zones 1 & 2, 1 to 3, 1 to 4, 1 to 5, 1 to 6, 1 to 7 or 1 to 8. This card is non-transferable and you should affix a passport-sized photo to it and place it and the travel coupon into the cover provided. Don’t forget to copy the card number on to the travel coupon.>>

xyz123

This topic comes up quite a bit....several years ago because of some conflicgting reports I e mailed RATP and basically was told Carte Orange is intended for residents of ile de France as their taxes subsidize it heavily...that being said they never came out and said it is illegal for foreigners to buy carte orange and as noted there is no mention of carte orange on the English language RATP site.

Every so often we read messages from people who run into some sniffy RATP clerk who refuses to sell the Carte Orange and tries to steer them to Paris Visite...it doesn't happen all that often but it has been reported on this board and other travel boards.

The solution is usually to simply walk over to another clerk even in the same satation and much more likely than not there won't be a problem.

djkbooks

I received the same response as xyz from RATP when I e-mailed them.

When we bought our first Carte Orange, the clerk did not speak English. I requested two passes with my rudimentary French. We were there on a Sunday, purchasing them for the next day. He apparently thought we wanted to ride the Metro immediately, and suggested a Paris Visite. After considerable exchange, I took out our photos. He pulled out a calendar, whereupon I pointed to the following week. Then, he grabbed two "kits", trimmed our photos to fit perfectly, assembled everything, "demonstrated" copying the number on the Carte to the coupon, then came out of his booth and walked us over to the turnstile and showed us how to use the coupon.

At any rate, susieq made no mention of photos. Her story just does not add up.

xyz123

One more quick point on this based on what I have read...

EU regulations prohibit discrimination against citizens of any other eu country. So if Carte Orange is sold to French people, then it must be sold to any other citizen of an EU country...I would suppose if it was only made available to citizens of ile de France, RATP could probably get away with it.

Several years ago, I have a situation with a French metro clerk who refused to sell me a mobilis ticket, despite the fact that in the case of mobilis it is described on the English language RATP site....she kept insisting that she could only sell me Paris Visite...after about 5 or 6 minutes of arguing, she finally sold me the mobilis ticket (at that time, mobilis also came with a card (no picture) where you had to insert the number and date (not done anymore)....one gets the feeling clerks are given commissions or whatever trying to steer unsuspecting tourists to Paris Visite instead of mobilis or carte orange...(of course in 99% of cases Paris Visite is not a good buy)....

kerouac

It seems to be common knowledge among Parisians (but it could be an urban myth) that the sale of all the various metro tickets covers only 30% of the operating costs. This would imply that even the most expensive sort of ticket is still heavily subsidized -- probably at least 50%.

Gretchen

I have never seen a FRench metro clerk that had time to do what Roundtrip says!! You have to ask for what you want--Carte Orange--and provide what it takes to fulfill what you want/need. If it is a first time, a PICTURE.
Our first experience with the CO was what Donna's and Christina's was. I looked clueless, held out my pictures, clerk trimmed them and pasted them in!

superheterodyne

>> It seems to be common knowledge among Parisians (but it could be an urban myth) that the sale of all the various metro tickets covers only 30% of the operating costs. This would imply that even the most expensive sort of ticket is still heavily subsidized -- probably at least 50%. <<

I've got the exact figures somewhere, but 30% is a good idea.

MorganB

-------By going up to an authorized ticket agent to purchase access you're saying, "I want to ride the metro/bus/train. WHAT do I need to do in order to make this happen (i.e. pay x amount of money, produce x documents/identification, etc.)?-----

Actually, the RATP has information windows for this where they dont sell tickets. Ticket agents are there to sell tickets and can give a minimum of info but cant hold your hand through the process. Plus it holds up the line.

yats

I just returned from Paris; I didn't have a problem with the Carte Orange card, but I was deeply disturbed by the behavior of Paris police (the police station is located on Rue de Maine).

Here is my story- I was robbed in Paris at around 9ish at night but didn't get to a metro station(Montparness) till like 10:30pm. Hoping to obtain help I talked to the Metro agent and asked if she can call the police for me so that the police can come and get me since I did not have any money or credit cards with me. To my surprize, my request was refused; instead I was given directions to walk to the police station. I walked for like 20 minutes on heels and after asking a woman on the way, I found the police station. I thought I would fine from then on. Not to my surprize, the police do not speak English; I used a few gestures to indicate that I was robbed and clearly they understood me. At that point, I knew I needed translation help with the police report; so I asked them if I can use a phone to call my french friend (it was a local number). To my dismay, the police officer(she) said there is no telephone in the police station and there is no way I could call. (One thing to note, in my situation, even if I had cash for a public phonecard, it was difficult to get one 'cause most tabac shops, which sell phonecards, were closed at that time). Then I asked if I could use the internet, hoping maybe there is a way I get some form of help, she replied they don't have internet access. Instead, she drew me a map to a internet cafe. Seeing that there was a police car idling outside the station and that there were at least 6 officers in the station chatting away; I requested if they could give me a ride to the internet cafe since I was not familiar with that area and it was past 11pm; again, not sympathetic to my situation, I was rejected one last time!

I am not writing to complain that they don't speak English, I am writing because I don't understand why they couldn't offer a little assistance (such as lending a phone) to a tourist who had just encountered a robbery. Aren't police trained to help with emergency?

According to my French friend who grew up in Paris, he said the Paris police wouldn't care to help tourists since they (tourists) are least likely to complain about them due to the language barrier. If this is true, I would advise travellers to avoid going to the police in case of emergency but rather get help from people on the street. I was able to explain my situation to a woman on the street who gave me some money which I used to get internet service. I was also able to find someone (after asking like 3 people) at the internet cafe to lend me his phone(he was reluctant at first but I begged for it).

I do not know the law over there but I wonder if I can file a complaint against police service?

Lastly, I wish people planning to travel to Paris good luck, hope you would have a better experience than the one I had.

cigalechanta

I don't photograph well, so I brought a photo from home that I trimmed to my passport size to get my orange card.

Apres_Londee

I am genuinely sorry to hear you were robbed, and I hope you are okay. I can understand why you would feel upset about your experience with the police.

Though they obviously did not extend themselves to assist you, don't take it personally. It is possible that there may be strict regulations about allowing members of the public to use their office telephones. I'm certainly not surprised to hear they did not allow you access to an office computer, or that an officer refused to drive you to an internet cafe in a police vehicle.

A language barrier makes a stressful situation feel even worse, and I do empathize with you. However, police stations in most big cities don't bend rules or extend themselves to provide comfort and support to people who have had their wallet stolen (no matter how personally upsetting that can be)

Now I'm wandering into general tangent territory here, but I think the same principle applies to the issues the OP posts about. Sometimes I wonder if these sorts of things don't stem from "urban shock" as opposed to "culture shock".

It's not the metro agent's responsibility to make sure every person who is buying a pass also has a carte orange. When my city used to require special photo id to use with the subway pass, the guy at the ticket window didn't remind everyone who bought a pass to make sure they got their id card.

Likewise, it's not the job of the metro agents to sort out who is a tourist and who isn't when issuing fines. How could they possibly determine that? It would be incredibly onerous. People cheat in the most imaginative ways possible. The only way for a system to be fair is for it to be universally applied. And ignorance of the law does not mitigate fault.

I'm sure metro fines ARE a cash cow for the city of Paris. Just like parking tickets are for the city I live in. The agents enforcing these regulations don't care whether someone speaks the language, is a tourist or a local or whatever. They just want to make their quota so they can go home for the day.

And, in fact, tourists do get reimbursed, which is great. It's just that if the tourist is responsible for violating the regulations, then the tourist is the one who has go out of their way to chase down their refund. No city anywhere is going to allocate funds to hire people to go looking for tourists to reimburse, it's as simple as that. Just like tax reimbursments. One isn't automatically exempt from paying sales tax at the point of purchase. You have to fill out and submit a form to the appropriate body with receipts, etc.

Anyways, I think these cultural frissons mostly result from a combination of unfamiliarity with how things work in large urban cities, and an increased sense of vulnerability from not speaking the language (and from that, in some cases-NOT necessarily these posters'- an increased sense of entitlement due to being a tourist, maybe in self-defense vis a vis the vulnerability)

So while neither poster was treated WELL by the relevant authorities, neither were they singled out for poor treatment. I think it's safe to say that most everyone gets the same indifferent treatment when it comes to metro fines and stolen wallets, in big cities the world over.

kerouac

As a Parisian, I was treated the same by the police when I was mugged (many years ago), so don't think it is a tourist or language problem. It was a violent incident, and I had blood all over my face and a broken nose. I was provided a tissue by someone being booked on charges, and it was only after great insistence that I managed to get a ride to the hospital in a police van full of Africans being deported. Very interesting experience, to be avoided if possible.

ira

Hi yats,

Sorry to hear about your problem.

However, don't expect cops in any large city, anywhere in the world, to be helpful to anyone, local or tourist.

I'm pleased to hear that some of the residents helped you.

yats

Hi Kerouac,

Sorry to hear about your plight; it 's too bad that you, as a Paris resident, are paying high taxes to these civil servants and not getting the service you needed.

Someone commented that the police in big cities are not helpful, but I wonder if it is even too much to ask for a phone, surely police in France carry mobile phones for personal use?? what is someone in my position, in that situation, supposed to do to get help otherwise? Just to mention, after I got robbed, I 've asked 3 people on the street to help but they totally ignored me that was why I decided to go for the police. the woman who helped me happened to speak English and was sympathetic to my situation. Yes I definitely think the residents in Paris were more helpful, but do expect maybe 1 out of 4 you approach would help you.
One comment, It's amazing how differently I was treated while in Spain (took the trip just before Paris), even though most people I talked to don't really speak english, but they were always eager to help when I approach them.

I disagree that all police in big cities are not helpful; I am pretty sure that if you get into trouble in NYC; you will not get that same kind of attitude that I got from the paris police.

BTilke

We've been fortunate to have a few very good experiences with Paris police.
The first was some years ago when we were renting a ground floor apartment in the Auteuil section of the 16th. Some snotty teenagers walking by threw lit cigarettes into the living room. My husband took off after them in a rage (he is a big guy and these kids had "twig boy" physiques). He grabbed one of them by the shirt and lifted him about a foot off the ground, shouting into shocked kid's face. An off-duty detective across the street ran over and smoothed things over, assured my husband he knew who the kids were and promised to follow up on it. As we left the scene, we saw the detective giving the kids a good dressing-down. (we still laugh about the kid's expression when my furious husband hoisted him up into the air.)

In November of 2006, a friend and I happened to go up to Montmartre (I hate it up there and each time swear I'll never go there again, but then another friend wants to see it and...). There was some kind of demonstration going on near Sacre Coeur; we got caught up on the fringe of it. Police in full riot gear were lobbing canisters of tear gas (which felt like really strong ammonia mixed with pepper spray). A few police saw that we were tourists in the wrong place, came over and personally escorted us to safety out of the melee. Oh, and did I mention they were REALLY good looking??? They even flirted with us briefly before heading back to whatever the heck was going on.

So...no complaints from us. Knock wood.

robjame

I am not unsympathetic with your story but you said <<I am pretty sure that if you get into trouble in NYC; you will not get that same kind of attitude that I got from the paris police.>>
Try approaching one and speaking to him or her in French and see what kind of response you get.

kerouac

In my own case, I tried to get a taxi to take me to the main police station for the arrondissement, since it was the only one open in the area at 2 a.m. He took one look at me and took off. I had to walk 2 km. to the police station, dripping blood the entire way. I still chuckle to myself about how grotesque the situation was.

A lesson learned: Never ever try to resist a mugging.