Paris for the first timer: clothes
Dec 16th, 2005, 06:17 AM
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Paris for the first timer: clothes
Recent discussions of what to wear in Paris made me recall what I wrote after returning this time last year. I hope it will be helpful, though fashions will surely have changed!
The French are very particular about their appearance. In general, they are much more pulled together than Americans and much less likely to appear in public in informal clothing. If you wish to be taken seriously in shops and restaurants, you should do likewise. Paris is not the place to be a slob, if you wish to be taken seriously. If you don't care about being taken seriously, wear anything you want.
People have more presence than in the US because women dress like women rather than teenage girls, and fathers do not model their dress on their sons’ fads. As a result, Paris has more attractive women in their fifties and sixties than I have ever seen anywhere in the US.
In Paris last November, women were wearing dark clothes but not the inevitable and tedious New York “put-on-five-shades-of-black-and-call-it-an-outfit” look. Women who did wear black invariably enlivened it with a bright scarf, hat, bag, or shoes. Brown, from chestnut to dark ochre; green, from deep olive to off sage; and reds in many deep shades (bright red short jackets on the weekend) were always visible in public places. In three weeks in France, I never saw a woman in navy blue. Their scarves are justly famous, and most women wore dark hosiery, though many had patterned stockings. Small bosoms, well, natural bosoms, surgically unaltered, are still the norm.
Skip the hip hugger pants or jeans that show your belly button, buttocks cleavage, or the top of your thong. French women wear body suits with hip huggers, and their belly buttons don’t show. In three weeks, I never saw a single French woman or girl with her belly button, thong, or butt cleavage showing. When I did see someone dressed like that, they always turned out to be American, Italian, or Spanish. I also never saw a visible tattoo on a French woman.
Men tended to dress a bit more dramatically than in the US. They often wear swoopy scarves but very rarely hats. There were fewer men in suits than we would expect in a financial center in the US or UK, but those who wore suits were impeccably adult looking – no spiky crew cuts! Men’s clothing was also dark, and I saw no French male in khakis, though they are common in late spring and in the summer.
To be taken seriously (you are not trying to look French, just like a serious person because it makes your life easier) in restaurants and shops, don’t wear any of the following: baseball caps; white or colorful athletic shoes or those tan or gray Rockport walking shoes that senior citizens seem to like (black is fine). Don’t wear fleece suits or sweats of any kind; shirts, sweaters or jackets with club or team logos (no one in France cares where you went to college or played golf). Despite Paris being home to well-known brands like Hermes and Louis Vuitton, you don’t see much in the way of logo clothing. French men and women are not walking advertisements the way many Americans are.
People will know you are a tourist the first time you open your mouth, if not by your size and shape, but if you are seen as both a tourist and a serious person, you will be treated far better than if you are seen as a tourist and unserious.
The French are very particular about their appearance. In general, they are much more pulled together than Americans and much less likely to appear in public in informal clothing. If you wish to be taken seriously in shops and restaurants, you should do likewise. Paris is not the place to be a slob, if you wish to be taken seriously. If you don't care about being taken seriously, wear anything you want.
People have more presence than in the US because women dress like women rather than teenage girls, and fathers do not model their dress on their sons’ fads. As a result, Paris has more attractive women in their fifties and sixties than I have ever seen anywhere in the US.
In Paris last November, women were wearing dark clothes but not the inevitable and tedious New York “put-on-five-shades-of-black-and-call-it-an-outfit” look. Women who did wear black invariably enlivened it with a bright scarf, hat, bag, or shoes. Brown, from chestnut to dark ochre; green, from deep olive to off sage; and reds in many deep shades (bright red short jackets on the weekend) were always visible in public places. In three weeks in France, I never saw a woman in navy blue. Their scarves are justly famous, and most women wore dark hosiery, though many had patterned stockings. Small bosoms, well, natural bosoms, surgically unaltered, are still the norm.
Skip the hip hugger pants or jeans that show your belly button, buttocks cleavage, or the top of your thong. French women wear body suits with hip huggers, and their belly buttons don’t show. In three weeks, I never saw a single French woman or girl with her belly button, thong, or butt cleavage showing. When I did see someone dressed like that, they always turned out to be American, Italian, or Spanish. I also never saw a visible tattoo on a French woman.
Men tended to dress a bit more dramatically than in the US. They often wear swoopy scarves but very rarely hats. There were fewer men in suits than we would expect in a financial center in the US or UK, but those who wore suits were impeccably adult looking – no spiky crew cuts! Men’s clothing was also dark, and I saw no French male in khakis, though they are common in late spring and in the summer.
To be taken seriously (you are not trying to look French, just like a serious person because it makes your life easier) in restaurants and shops, don’t wear any of the following: baseball caps; white or colorful athletic shoes or those tan or gray Rockport walking shoes that senior citizens seem to like (black is fine). Don’t wear fleece suits or sweats of any kind; shirts, sweaters or jackets with club or team logos (no one in France cares where you went to college or played golf). Despite Paris being home to well-known brands like Hermes and Louis Vuitton, you don’t see much in the way of logo clothing. French men and women are not walking advertisements the way many Americans are.
People will know you are a tourist the first time you open your mouth, if not by your size and shape, but if you are seen as both a tourist and a serious person, you will be treated far better than if you are seen as a tourist and unserious.
Dec 16th, 2005, 06:25 AM
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I'm never serious on vacation or not. Life is much too short to be serious! And to be mistaken for a serious person--EGAD!!!! No wonder the French have such a sourpuss reputation!
So next trip to Paris it's definitely the Groucho Marx moustache glasses, the Cartman "Respect My Authori-tie"
t-shirt, and my red and purple Nikes. Maybe a Mohawk haircut, or the American Eagle cut into my hair.
Oh, and khakis--I wouldn't go so far as to forgo pants. Hmmmmmm...
So next trip to Paris it's definitely the Groucho Marx moustache glasses, the Cartman "Respect My Authori-tie"
t-shirt, and my red and purple Nikes. Maybe a Mohawk haircut, or the American Eagle cut into my hair.
Oh, and khakis--I wouldn't go so far as to forgo pants. Hmmmmmm...
Dec 16th, 2005, 06:46 AM
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I appreciate the time it took to pen this original post and the intent with which it was offered.
Fortunately, what happens and is worn in Paris, is not necessarily indicative of france in general, just as what is worn, and happens, in New York does not speak for the USA.
Fortunately, what happens and is worn in Paris, is not necessarily indicative of france in general, just as what is worn, and happens, in New York does not speak for the USA.
Dec 16th, 2005, 07:44 AM
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I am wondering why this was written and was it written for a publication? It wasn't posted on here, and it doesn't seem like the kind of thing one would write to oneself in a travel journal. It also implies comprehensive knowledge of how people dress in France, in general, and in all seasons, which isn't the kind of thing one would write after one's first trip of a couple days (ie, seasons for mean wearing khakis). Some of the phrases are a bit odd for normal casual posts (such as the comment on surgically-enhanced breasts).
While I think it has some good points, it is not, in fact, accurate in some cases regarding all French people, and reflects a certain age and class. For example, younger French guys do wear lots of logo clothing with teams, etc., it is fairly popular. I remember being there during World Cup and lots of guys were wearing "Go les Bleus" Tshirts, etc. Also, there are many French people who do dress casually, and yes, like slobs, and in public. To claim that none do means a rather limited exposure to various segments of French society. I have been in restaurants in Provence, for example, where local men came in wearing running shorts and sneakers -- for dinner! Now I do agree the post is generally about Paris, but blanket statements were made such as "the French are very particular about their appearance". It also means no excursions were made to the less wealthy areas, or non-central areas for regular folks, or even in the masses of people on the metro at various times.
However, I think if people need to be told not to wear sweatsuits, etc., in public and told not to look like a slob in restaurants and nice places in Paris, that is good advice. I just can't envision some slob reading this post and saying -- oh, yes, what was I thinking, now I understand that I shouldn't dress like a slob but before I thought it was a good idea.
While I think it has some good points, it is not, in fact, accurate in some cases regarding all French people, and reflects a certain age and class. For example, younger French guys do wear lots of logo clothing with teams, etc., it is fairly popular. I remember being there during World Cup and lots of guys were wearing "Go les Bleus" Tshirts, etc. Also, there are many French people who do dress casually, and yes, like slobs, and in public. To claim that none do means a rather limited exposure to various segments of French society. I have been in restaurants in Provence, for example, where local men came in wearing running shorts and sneakers -- for dinner! Now I do agree the post is generally about Paris, but blanket statements were made such as "the French are very particular about their appearance". It also means no excursions were made to the less wealthy areas, or non-central areas for regular folks, or even in the masses of people on the metro at various times.
However, I think if people need to be told not to wear sweatsuits, etc., in public and told not to look like a slob in restaurants and nice places in Paris, that is good advice. I just can't envision some slob reading this post and saying -- oh, yes, what was I thinking, now I understand that I shouldn't dress like a slob but before I thought it was a good idea.
Dec 16th, 2005, 11:46 AM
#7
I tend to not seek out nor exhibit "gravitas" when I visit Paris. If a person is polite and pleasant and makes an attempt to speak even the most rudimentary French, you will be treated in kind. What they wear and what I choose to wear will not matter.
Dec 16th, 2005, 12:40 PM
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Ah yes, without exception all Americans are slobs. We need posts like this once in a while to remind us how to dress. How kind of the poster! If it wasn’t for him or her, my husband would have packed his overalls and Ohio State sweat shirt, and I would have packed my hip huggers and low-cut blouse with spaghetti straps (and a push-up bra to go with it). We thought that’s what all middle-aged couples wore when they put their shoes on and venture into the big city. Thanks Ackislander, for setting us straight.
Dec 17th, 2005, 04:58 AM
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My, my, my. Do I think all Americans are slobs? No. Do people ask for advice on how to dress in Paris? Yes, right here on this list! This would be my answer. These were not unsolicited opinions, and I am not attempting to impose my views on anyone else. Why should anyone care what someone else thinks about the way they dress? But if you ask . . . .
Christina asked the right questions: Q: for whom was this written (A: it was distributed as part of a larger document on visiting Paris to a group of friends). It attempts to meet the needs of friends who have the time and money to go to Paris but are afraid to go because they don't want to make fools of themselves or be treated rudely.
Christina correctly notes that my observations are only applicable to Paris and then only to parts of the city. My experience in Paris, over three seasons over the last decade, is mostly restricted to the area represented by a pair of lines, one extending from the Cirque d'hiver to, say, Radio France and the other from the Gare de Montparnasse to the Gare du Nord. Outside that X and a quarter mile on either side of it, my experience is limited. People certainly don't dress like that in the poorer areas of the city and banlieues. But then most tourists/visitors don't spend much time in those parts of the city.
I have also spent time in Aix en Provence and in the Dordogne, and she is quite correct that people dress differently there.
When my wife and I visit Paris, we stay for at least a week, and we rent an apartment in a neighborhood. We ride buses and find as much pleasure in going to Monoprix as to the Louvre. We visit the sights, but we spend just as much time looking at people in cafes and on buses and in the Metro, observing how their appearance and their actions differ from people in the US or UK. We do not stay in expensive hotels or go to starred restaurants.
The document from which this section was taken has many other sections, some of which are very practical (eating in restaurants, using the various types of French toilets, buying a Carte Orange) and some of which (good manners in France)I now suppose would make some people feel insulted ("Oh, sure, all Americans are crude!"
Americans are not crude but good manners in France are often very different from good manners in the US -- as posters have noted on this list for some time. The friends for whom this was written just don't read posts on the internet!
Now if we really wanted controversy, I could post "Why Le Rubis is the Most Intimidating Restaurant in Paris"!
Christina asked the right questions: Q: for whom was this written (A: it was distributed as part of a larger document on visiting Paris to a group of friends). It attempts to meet the needs of friends who have the time and money to go to Paris but are afraid to go because they don't want to make fools of themselves or be treated rudely.
Christina correctly notes that my observations are only applicable to Paris and then only to parts of the city. My experience in Paris, over three seasons over the last decade, is mostly restricted to the area represented by a pair of lines, one extending from the Cirque d'hiver to, say, Radio France and the other from the Gare de Montparnasse to the Gare du Nord. Outside that X and a quarter mile on either side of it, my experience is limited. People certainly don't dress like that in the poorer areas of the city and banlieues. But then most tourists/visitors don't spend much time in those parts of the city.
I have also spent time in Aix en Provence and in the Dordogne, and she is quite correct that people dress differently there.
When my wife and I visit Paris, we stay for at least a week, and we rent an apartment in a neighborhood. We ride buses and find as much pleasure in going to Monoprix as to the Louvre. We visit the sights, but we spend just as much time looking at people in cafes and on buses and in the Metro, observing how their appearance and their actions differ from people in the US or UK. We do not stay in expensive hotels or go to starred restaurants.
The document from which this section was taken has many other sections, some of which are very practical (eating in restaurants, using the various types of French toilets, buying a Carte Orange) and some of which (good manners in France)I now suppose would make some people feel insulted ("Oh, sure, all Americans are crude!"
Americans are not crude but good manners in France are often very different from good manners in the US -- as posters have noted on this list for some time. The friends for whom this was written just don't read posts on the internet!Now if we really wanted controversy, I could post "Why Le Rubis is the Most Intimidating Restaurant in Paris"!
Dec 17th, 2005, 05:45 AM
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Last year, we had a party of 25 people from California visiting us in Germany. The group leader asked me: "Why do Europeans immediately identify us as Americans, even if we haven't spoken one word?" - It's the shoes! Very few Europeans (over 18 years) would wear sneakers in city like Paris. Besides, we would not wear colorful rain jackets in the city. It is right that people in province cities dress differently from people in Paris; it is mostly a matter of social class and occasion.
I just made a reservation for Furnace Creek Inn, Death Valley. They told me the dress code in the restaurant is "casual elegance". This may also be the dress code for European cities.
I just made a reservation for Furnace Creek Inn, Death Valley. They told me the dress code in the restaurant is "casual elegance". This may also be the dress code for European cities.
Dec 17th, 2005, 06:21 AM
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"Small bosoms are still the norm..."
Well, that's a relief! I was afraid I was going to have to go to the attic and unbox the various larger sets I keep stored there....now, please tell me a more or less symmetrical pair is still in fashion....
And what about eye colour? Now that blue is out and black is in, this sounds like my road to ensuring that my order is taken in a restaurant is going to be painful. But, mon dieu! What is the lot of nous femmes, but to suffer, suffer for la cause!!!
Well, that's a relief! I was afraid I was going to have to go to the attic and unbox the various larger sets I keep stored there....now, please tell me a more or less symmetrical pair is still in fashion....
And what about eye colour? Now that blue is out and black is in, this sounds like my road to ensuring that my order is taken in a restaurant is going to be painful. But, mon dieu! What is the lot of nous femmes, but to suffer, suffer for la cause!!!
Dec 17th, 2005, 08:38 AM
#13
What a strange attitude this post conveys, also a number of things I question (i don't recall "swoopy scarves" on men in Paris, nor women dressing like teenagers in the US).
If you know how to dress at home, you know how to dress in Paris. Fashion is about what looks good on you, it does not change with your destination.
If you know how to dress at home, you know how to dress in Paris. Fashion is about what looks good on you, it does not change with your destination.
Dec 17th, 2005, 08:53 AM
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My first reaction to the original post is Whoopie. Let's all buy new outfits and visit Paris to wow the natives.
My second reaction was/is not printable.
(Big brother still lurks.)
For our first visit to Paris, and the Opera Bastille in particular, we brought along our best clothes.
I thought for sure e were appropriately dressed for the occasion, that we were well turned out to sit in the very expensive seats for which I had splurged. All went well until we sat down next to a highly refined gentleman who was elegantly dressed in a formal black T-shirt!!
Ever since then, I have ceased to worry about my Paris attire - as long as it was legal and comfortable.
PS. The opera was Turandot with Franco Farina as Calaf, Patricia Racette at Liu, and Jane Eaglen as Turandot.
All singers were in fine voice and the production was incredible, stupendous, overwhelming even. Not only that but it was good, too.
My second reaction was/is not printable.
(Big brother still lurks.)
For our first visit to Paris, and the Opera Bastille in particular, we brought along our best clothes.
I thought for sure e were appropriately dressed for the occasion, that we were well turned out to sit in the very expensive seats for which I had splurged. All went well until we sat down next to a highly refined gentleman who was elegantly dressed in a formal black T-shirt!!
Ever since then, I have ceased to worry about my Paris attire - as long as it was legal and comfortable.
PS. The opera was Turandot with Franco Farina as Calaf, Patricia Racette at Liu, and Jane Eaglen as Turandot.
All singers were in fine voice and the production was incredible, stupendous, overwhelming even. Not only that but it was good, too.
Dec 17th, 2005, 07:28 PM
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Was it the Mars and Venus guy, Dr. Phil or some other pyschologist who pointed out that -
When girls talk about problems they are not really looking for a guy to fix them. They just want to talk about them.
I think the advice Ackislander has offered may very well be read by some of those who post dress questions. They will probably enjoy his advice. And they may even take some of it to heart. But they will still post the questions and solicit replies because what they really want - IS TO HAVE A CONVERSATION ABOUT CLOTHES!! It evokes the delicious excitement of trip anticipation and the love for clothes all at the same time. For traveholic shopaholics it's like a small hit. I should know.
When girls talk about problems they are not really looking for a guy to fix them. They just want to talk about them.
I think the advice Ackislander has offered may very well be read by some of those who post dress questions. They will probably enjoy his advice. And they may even take some of it to heart. But they will still post the questions and solicit replies because what they really want - IS TO HAVE A CONVERSATION ABOUT CLOTHES!! It evokes the delicious excitement of trip anticipation and the love for clothes all at the same time. For traveholic shopaholics it's like a small hit. I should know.
