Paris Aug 15 with 2 teen boys - looking for Apt rental ideas.
Dec 14th, 2014, 12:34 AM
#42
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Peter_S_Aus - just booking through an agency does not mean that an apartment is legal.
Legit, maybe - in that the agency will probably be able to offer you another property if the one you booked is taken off the market because it is illegal...
Legit, maybe - in that the agency will probably be able to offer you another property if the one you booked is taken off the market because it is illegal...
Dec 14th, 2014, 03:15 AM
#43
yes, SJ, our let is legal [as our huge council tax bill proves to us every year] and no, I'm not going to give you details. I only mentioned it as the fact that I have a little personal knowledge of these things is relevant to the subject in hand.
Peter - I just hope that you can live with yourself, renting properties that you have not checked are entirely legal. [said ironically, just in case some of our friends can't spot that].
Just HOW you're supposed to do that of course is a problem which SJ does not address.
One good point you make, SJ, is the fact that we as legitimate renters face competition from those who aren't. I'm struggling to know what I can do about that in the UK context, unless I trawl the internet for neighbours who are renting out rooms and report them to the local planning authority. Even then, you can legally rent out up to 3 rooms on a B&B basis without applying for change of use so I'm not sure that would help. We are of course approved by the local tourist board so I can only hope that potential customers will be looking out for that and prefer those of us who pay a considerable sum to the tourist board for the privilege of being inspected by them, [every year and they are very strict] as opposed to those who don't.
Peter - I just hope that you can live with yourself, renting properties that you have not checked are entirely legal. [said ironically, just in case some of our friends can't spot that].
Just HOW you're supposed to do that of course is a problem which SJ does not address.
One good point you make, SJ, is the fact that we as legitimate renters face competition from those who aren't. I'm struggling to know what I can do about that in the UK context, unless I trawl the internet for neighbours who are renting out rooms and report them to the local planning authority. Even then, you can legally rent out up to 3 rooms on a B&B basis without applying for change of use so I'm not sure that would help. We are of course approved by the local tourist board so I can only hope that potential customers will be looking out for that and prefer those of us who pay a considerable sum to the tourist board for the privilege of being inspected by them, [every year and they are very strict] as opposed to those who don't.
Dec 14th, 2014, 06:49 AM
#44
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Forum rules certainly don't prevent people from posting links to commercial websites, people do it all the time. Every time someone asks people's opinion of various apts, they are doing that. Not to mention there are tons of links to all kinds of commercial websites on here, that's what people do when giving information out.
What isn't allowed is advertising on Fodors, which is soliciting business for some company where you have some benefit in the outcome.
I don't think Annhig is remotely interesting in posting a link to her property on here, it clearly is unrelated to this post as it's no in Paris, so why should she. And even if she did because someone asked, that wouldn't be advertising.
SOme people on here advertise all the time, actually, and it slips by -- there is one guy who tags all his posts with his online website which is clearly soliciting business to it, that's why he does it, even if he doesn't say anything. And anyone running a website usually gains something from people going to it, in advertising revenue if nothing else (clicks on traffic). More blatant posts that exist solely for advertising and people starting threads for them usually get caught.
I do think most people aren't aware of these laws and haven't thought about them. And others who may be vaguely aware of them don't know local laws in a particular city usually, and probably don't consider it their responsibility to police people, such as they don't examine their tax returns, either. Lots of people in the Italy forum claim they get discounts for paying small hotels cash and they say they know it's because the hotel isn't declaring it as revenue (whether this is true or not, I don't know). That is even more blatant IMO, as a way of abetting illegal activity.
The comparison to prostitution is interesting, but it is actually illegal to pay the money to a prostitute in many countries, such as several Nordic countries, and France. In France, it didn't used to be illegal nor was even taking money for sex, it was just soliciting business that was, as I recall. But they just changed the law this year and now it is indeed illegal to pay for sex, in fact, I think it may be illegal to pay for it but not illegal to take money for sex. They wanted to focus on the buyers as a way to solve the problem, rather than the suppliers, or something like that.
What isn't allowed is advertising on Fodors, which is soliciting business for some company where you have some benefit in the outcome.
I don't think Annhig is remotely interesting in posting a link to her property on here, it clearly is unrelated to this post as it's no in Paris, so why should she. And even if she did because someone asked, that wouldn't be advertising.
SOme people on here advertise all the time, actually, and it slips by -- there is one guy who tags all his posts with his online website which is clearly soliciting business to it, that's why he does it, even if he doesn't say anything. And anyone running a website usually gains something from people going to it, in advertising revenue if nothing else (clicks on traffic). More blatant posts that exist solely for advertising and people starting threads for them usually get caught.
I do think most people aren't aware of these laws and haven't thought about them. And others who may be vaguely aware of them don't know local laws in a particular city usually, and probably don't consider it their responsibility to police people, such as they don't examine their tax returns, either. Lots of people in the Italy forum claim they get discounts for paying small hotels cash and they say they know it's because the hotel isn't declaring it as revenue (whether this is true or not, I don't know). That is even more blatant IMO, as a way of abetting illegal activity.
The comparison to prostitution is interesting, but it is actually illegal to pay the money to a prostitute in many countries, such as several Nordic countries, and France. In France, it didn't used to be illegal nor was even taking money for sex, it was just soliciting business that was, as I recall. But they just changed the law this year and now it is indeed illegal to pay for sex, in fact, I think it may be illegal to pay for it but not illegal to take money for sex. They wanted to focus on the buyers as a way to solve the problem, rather than the suppliers, or something like that.
Dec 14th, 2014, 08:27 AM
#45
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Actually annhig I gave you an opportunity to quite properly provide a link without it being YOU spamming your business. Christina has explained it quite well.
"And even if she did because someone asked, that wouldn't be advertising."
Moving on since you missed that opportunity, you wrote, "Just HOW you're supposed to do that of course is a problem which SJ does not address."
I think I have addressed it quite clearly annhig. You must do your own due diligence since the third party sites are not doing it for you. That you or anyone else might not find it convenient or easy to do that due diligence doesn't mean it hasn't been made clear 'HOW you're supposed to do that'.
Another step is to stop using third party sites that do not screen their advertisers. I am sure that if you have a property that is approved by the local tourist board then it must be a legal rental or they would not approve or list your property.
For example, if I wanted to book in St. Andrews, Scotland, I would book through this official site.
http://www.visitscotland.com/en-ca/d...accommodation/
Similar sites can be found for anywhere. Not all third party booking sites accept illegal rental listings.
As for what you can do, yes you can search and report the illegal rentals in your area. Why shouldn't you? I would say you would be crazy not to do your best to stamp out illegal cockroaches renting illegally in your area.
Also, do not confuse B&Bs which are allowed pretty much everywhere with properties where the owner is NOT present on the property. B&Bs are not the problem, it is an apartment in a residential building that impacts others, not a room in your neighbour's house where your neighbour is present.
In cities like Paris, someone from say the USA leases an apartment by the year with the sole intent of renting it out by the night. They don't live there, they aren't renting out a room now and then, they are operating a BUSINESS and doing so knowing it is illegal. That's a cockroach in my book.
A company that knowingly accepts their listing is also a cockroach. But if someone rents through a site like http://www.visitengland.com/self-cat...and-cottages#/ , they can be sure the 3 rosette cottage is a legal rental or it would not be on that site.
I do not think it is that hard to answer, "HOW you'r supposed to do that" (rent a legal rental) annhig. The problem is some people don't realize there is a problem and so contribute to illegal rentals. Those people can be educated on forums such as this one.
Other people don't CARE if they rent illegally and all we can do about them is post and give them a guilt trip. As I wrote already, "What people really don't like is having the issue pointed out to them and then having to accept that they don't care." They are the ones who come up with all the excuses and situational ethics to try and justify their actions.
"And even if she did because someone asked, that wouldn't be advertising."
Moving on since you missed that opportunity, you wrote, "Just HOW you're supposed to do that of course is a problem which SJ does not address."
I think I have addressed it quite clearly annhig. You must do your own due diligence since the third party sites are not doing it for you. That you or anyone else might not find it convenient or easy to do that due diligence doesn't mean it hasn't been made clear 'HOW you're supposed to do that'.
Another step is to stop using third party sites that do not screen their advertisers. I am sure that if you have a property that is approved by the local tourist board then it must be a legal rental or they would not approve or list your property.
For example, if I wanted to book in St. Andrews, Scotland, I would book through this official site.
http://www.visitscotland.com/en-ca/d...accommodation/
Similar sites can be found for anywhere. Not all third party booking sites accept illegal rental listings.
As for what you can do, yes you can search and report the illegal rentals in your area. Why shouldn't you? I would say you would be crazy not to do your best to stamp out illegal cockroaches renting illegally in your area.
Also, do not confuse B&Bs which are allowed pretty much everywhere with properties where the owner is NOT present on the property. B&Bs are not the problem, it is an apartment in a residential building that impacts others, not a room in your neighbour's house where your neighbour is present.
In cities like Paris, someone from say the USA leases an apartment by the year with the sole intent of renting it out by the night. They don't live there, they aren't renting out a room now and then, they are operating a BUSINESS and doing so knowing it is illegal. That's a cockroach in my book.
A company that knowingly accepts their listing is also a cockroach. But if someone rents through a site like http://www.visitengland.com/self-cat...and-cottages#/ , they can be sure the 3 rosette cottage is a legal rental or it would not be on that site.
I do not think it is that hard to answer, "HOW you'r supposed to do that" (rent a legal rental) annhig. The problem is some people don't realize there is a problem and so contribute to illegal rentals. Those people can be educated on forums such as this one.
Other people don't CARE if they rent illegally and all we can do about them is post and give them a guilt trip. As I wrote already, "What people really don't like is having the issue pointed out to them and then having to accept that they don't care." They are the ones who come up with all the excuses and situational ethics to try and justify their actions.
Dec 14th, 2014, 08:47 AM
#46
Actually annhig I gave you an opportunity to quite properly provide a link without it being YOU spamming your business. Christina has explained it quite well.
"And even if she did because someone asked, that wouldn't be advertising.">>
well actually I do think that it might be construed as advertising and in any event I am not going to avail myself of this "opportunity" and you can make of that what you will.
as for the rest of it, I've got better things to do than spend my time searching out illegal rentals in this or any other area, given that we have more than enough business anyway.
"And even if she did because someone asked, that wouldn't be advertising.">>
well actually I do think that it might be construed as advertising and in any event I am not going to avail myself of this "opportunity" and you can make of that what you will.
as for the rest of it, I've got better things to do than spend my time searching out illegal rentals in this or any other area, given that we have more than enough business anyway.
Dec 14th, 2014, 08:59 AM
#47
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"...all WE can do about them is post and give them a guilt trip."
This is puzzling to me. I think this attitude is what turns friendly informative message boards Into a forum for people's pet peeves. I've been coming here a long while, don't feel the need to so much anymore. If advice given or a question asked becomes an unpleasant excuse for hectoring, the usefulness of the site disappears.
This is puzzling to me. I think this attitude is what turns friendly informative message boards Into a forum for people's pet peeves. I've been coming here a long while, don't feel the need to so much anymore. If advice given or a question asked becomes an unpleasant excuse for hectoring, the usefulness of the site disappears.
Dec 14th, 2014, 09:16 AM
#48
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Annhig, you are the one who wrote, "One good point you make, SJ, is the fact that we as legitimate renters face competition from those who aren't. I'm struggling to know what I can do about that in the UK context, unless I trawl the internet for neighbours who are renting out rooms and report them to the local planning authority."
Now you want to say you aren't 'struggling' and don't care about the illegal competition? That's a strange about face I'd say.
Macdogmom, so speaks someone who suggested using sites that knowingly post illegal rentals. I can understand why you might object to being 'hectored' as you put it rather than 'informed' as I tried to do when you first raised the issue.
My first response to you was, "Macdogmom, just be aware that you may not be welcome by the neighbours if you rent an illegal rental in Barcelona. Airbnb is coming under increasing attack."
I see no 'hectoring' in that response at all. I gave you the benefit of the doubt and presumed you were not aware of the issue. I tried to 'inform' you that an issue does exist. You could have simply responded and said something like, 'oh, I didn't know they listed illegal rentals, thanks for the heads up.'
I see no reason for hectoring anyone UNLESS they say they don't CARE if what they rent is illegal or not.
Now you want to say you aren't 'struggling' and don't care about the illegal competition? That's a strange about face I'd say.
Macdogmom, so speaks someone who suggested using sites that knowingly post illegal rentals. I can understand why you might object to being 'hectored' as you put it rather than 'informed' as I tried to do when you first raised the issue.
My first response to you was, "Macdogmom, just be aware that you may not be welcome by the neighbours if you rent an illegal rental in Barcelona. Airbnb is coming under increasing attack."
I see no 'hectoring' in that response at all. I gave you the benefit of the doubt and presumed you were not aware of the issue. I tried to 'inform' you that an issue does exist. You could have simply responded and said something like, 'oh, I didn't know they listed illegal rentals, thanks for the heads up.'
I see no reason for hectoring anyone UNLESS they say they don't CARE if what they rent is illegal or not.
Jan 4th, 2015, 08:02 AM
#52
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Well mind is made up -- going VRBO route and looking for a place in Arr. 4 either on one of the islands or in the Marais away from the super touristy area, if that is possible.
Thanks for all of the advice!
Thanks for all of the advice!
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