On the road in Lyon, Ecole des Trois Ponts, and Provence
Sep 23rd, 2004, 06:31 PM
#25
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Larry,
As I recall, you previously mentioned that you'll be dropping off a rental car in Lyon. Please post any details on the experience; I've read that this can be a thorny task in Lyon these days.
I returned a car at the Part Dieu station a few years ago and would have never found the facility without detailed directions from our concierge. Next month I'd like to drop off a car before checking into my hotel.
Thanks,
j.
As I recall, you previously mentioned that you'll be dropping off a rental car in Lyon. Please post any details on the experience; I've read that this can be a thorny task in Lyon these days.
I returned a car at the Part Dieu station a few years ago and would have never found the facility without detailed directions from our concierge. Next month I'd like to drop off a car before checking into my hotel.
Thanks,
j.
Sep 24th, 2004, 03:58 AM
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Cigalechanta, yes, we ate at several Boucheries. We ate at Le Mercière (Quennelle de Brochet, Souris d'Qgneau), which we found good, but not outstanding. Lunch at the Sol Café (I had moules, and Margie had a salad with smoked salmon and avocado). Dinner at "Le Caro de Lyon" (Filet de Rouget, Thon aux cepes). We found it better than Le Mercière, at about the same price, although the portions were smaller. We were not in the Dordogne on this trip.
Josh, we'll let you know how it goes with the car, but that won't be for a week (October 4, to be exact). Actually, we picked up the car at Part Dieux, and intend to drive into Lyon for our last night, and then return it at the airport, where I hope the return area will be well marked. But we are getting a little nervous about driving into and out of Lyon.
We could possibly change our plans. One choice would be to return the car a day early to Part Dieu. Since we've been there, it might be easier for us to find the return location, but I'm not so sure. Driving out of it is easier than finding it on the way back. In that case, we'd take a cab to the hotel, and to the airport the next morning (leaving the job of getting us to the airport on time to a professional).
Another possibility is to return the car to Avignon, and take the TGV to Lyon for our last night.
We also thought of changing our hotel for the last night to one at the airport. But we enjoyed Lyon so much that we'd rather go back, walk around, and have one more great dinner on our last evening in France.
We asked at the car pickup if there would be any problem returning it a day in advance, and there is not. Just drop it off at any office and the contract is terminated, But I don't think we'd get a refund for the unused day - we pre-paid through Auto Europe.
- Larry
Josh, we'll let you know how it goes with the car, but that won't be for a week (October 4, to be exact). Actually, we picked up the car at Part Dieux, and intend to drive into Lyon for our last night, and then return it at the airport, where I hope the return area will be well marked. But we are getting a little nervous about driving into and out of Lyon.
We could possibly change our plans. One choice would be to return the car a day early to Part Dieu. Since we've been there, it might be easier for us to find the return location, but I'm not so sure. Driving out of it is easier than finding it on the way back. In that case, we'd take a cab to the hotel, and to the airport the next morning (leaving the job of getting us to the airport on time to a professional).
Another possibility is to return the car to Avignon, and take the TGV to Lyon for our last night.
We also thought of changing our hotel for the last night to one at the airport. But we enjoyed Lyon so much that we'd rather go back, walk around, and have one more great dinner on our last evening in France.
We asked at the car pickup if there would be any problem returning it a day in advance, and there is not. Just drop it off at any office and the contract is terminated, But I don't think we'd get a refund for the unused day - we pre-paid through Auto Europe.
- Larry
Sep 24th, 2004, 04:05 AM
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Hi,
I was just wondering, which rental company are you using? There may be other drop-off points that are easier to access than the airport or Part-Dieu. I could certainly find out for you if you like.
Your mention of Caro de Lyon has got my mouth watering. I think it may be time I went there again for dinner - it's been a few months now!
Where are you planning to eat on your last night in Lyon?
I was just wondering, which rental company are you using? There may be other drop-off points that are easier to access than the airport or Part-Dieu. I could certainly find out for you if you like.
Your mention of Caro de Lyon has got my mouth watering. I think it may be time I went there again for dinner - it's been a few months now!
Where are you planning to eat on your last night in Lyon?
Sep 24th, 2004, 08:04 AM
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<b>Driving in France</b>
<i>The joys and woes of the rond-point</i>
But first:
hanl: we pre-paid through AutoEurope, and they arranged the rental through EuropCar (which I think is different from the "EuroCar" that has gotten some bad press on Fodor's). We got a free upgrade one car level, and got a really nice Peugeot 407 diesel with low mileage.
We haven't decided yet where to have our last meal in Lyon. Any suggestions are welcome.
<b>Driving:</b> France is dotted with <i>ronds-points</i>, which is the plural of <i>rond-point</i>, which means "traffic circle" in the US, or "roundabout" in the UK. For some reason, in my home state of Massachusetts, we say "rotary". The first time in Massachusetts that I saw a sign announcing a "rotary", I didn't know what they were talking about.
The <i>rond-point</i> has its advantages and disadvantages. A major advantage for the tourist is that you can keep going round and round. That may sound silly, but remember that the <i>rond-point</i> is an intersections, and as such will have lots of signs indicationg which exit to take.
In a foreign country, the signs are hard to read. They are in a foreign language, and use unfamiliar conventions. It can be hard to make a snap decision as to whether an exit is correct, and if you take the wrong exit, it can be hard to reverse direction (and you can't easily go back to re-read the signs).
But in a <i>rond-point</i>, if you have any doubt, don't get off. Just keep going around, reading all the signs until you are satisfied with your choice. It's great!
Furthermore, once you are in the <i>rond-point</i>, you have the right of way. Nobody will (or at least should) barge in on you. The <i>rond-point</i> is an exception to the general French rule of <i>priorité à droite</i> (priority to the right). Occasionally, some elderly Frenchman will forget this and barge right on in, remembering the old way of doing it (which killed lots of people), but that rarely happens these days. At every entrance, there's a "yield" symbol, a downward pointing triangle, and just in case you don't get it, there's a rectangular sign below it that says <i>Cédez le passage</i> ("yield the passage"
.
The disadvantage of the <i>rond-point</i> is that it jams up under heavy traffic, which we discovered in Boston, where we're getting rid of most of them. But I've seldom found that to be a problem in France, at least in the countryside.
Another reflection on driving in France: in the US, a highway generally stays a highway all along its length. But in France, it's common for decent highways to suddenly turn into a narrow road that goes right through the center of a village, only to become a highway again on the other side.
I was driving back to the Ecole des Trois Ponts from the north yesterday, on the N7 (<i>Route Nationale 7</i
. Once I got onto the N7, I figured I had no problem, as I knew my exit. When I had come up from Lyon, I exited the N7 at exit 66. Job done, I relaxed my guard, following the N7, following the signs towards Roanne.
Well, the N7 wandered through a few <i>ronds-points</i>, and I kept following the signs to Roanne. And where did I end up? Duh - Roanne! Roanne CENTER, that is, right in the city, well off the highway.
You see, I had to go past the bulk of Roanne to get to exit 66, and since I was following the signs to Roanne, and the N7 really ISN'T a highway north of exit 66, at some point I had deviated from the N7, and struck off towards Roanne <i>centre</i>.
My falut was to not carefully observe the REALLY SMALL square signs that said "N7", so as to stay on the "highway" (or what passed for a highway at that point). But even better would have been to follow the big signs to a destination further along the N7, such as Lyon, for instance. That would have kept me on the N7 until I saw my exit 66.
- Larry
<i>The joys and woes of the rond-point</i>
But first:
hanl: we pre-paid through AutoEurope, and they arranged the rental through EuropCar (which I think is different from the "EuroCar" that has gotten some bad press on Fodor's). We got a free upgrade one car level, and got a really nice Peugeot 407 diesel with low mileage.
We haven't decided yet where to have our last meal in Lyon. Any suggestions are welcome.
<b>Driving:</b> France is dotted with <i>ronds-points</i>, which is the plural of <i>rond-point</i>, which means "traffic circle" in the US, or "roundabout" in the UK. For some reason, in my home state of Massachusetts, we say "rotary". The first time in Massachusetts that I saw a sign announcing a "rotary", I didn't know what they were talking about.
The <i>rond-point</i> has its advantages and disadvantages. A major advantage for the tourist is that you can keep going round and round. That may sound silly, but remember that the <i>rond-point</i> is an intersections, and as such will have lots of signs indicationg which exit to take.
In a foreign country, the signs are hard to read. They are in a foreign language, and use unfamiliar conventions. It can be hard to make a snap decision as to whether an exit is correct, and if you take the wrong exit, it can be hard to reverse direction (and you can't easily go back to re-read the signs).
But in a <i>rond-point</i>, if you have any doubt, don't get off. Just keep going around, reading all the signs until you are satisfied with your choice. It's great!
Furthermore, once you are in the <i>rond-point</i>, you have the right of way. Nobody will (or at least should) barge in on you. The <i>rond-point</i> is an exception to the general French rule of <i>priorité à droite</i> (priority to the right). Occasionally, some elderly Frenchman will forget this and barge right on in, remembering the old way of doing it (which killed lots of people), but that rarely happens these days. At every entrance, there's a "yield" symbol, a downward pointing triangle, and just in case you don't get it, there's a rectangular sign below it that says <i>Cédez le passage</i> ("yield the passage"
.The disadvantage of the <i>rond-point</i> is that it jams up under heavy traffic, which we discovered in Boston, where we're getting rid of most of them. But I've seldom found that to be a problem in France, at least in the countryside.
Another reflection on driving in France: in the US, a highway generally stays a highway all along its length. But in France, it's common for decent highways to suddenly turn into a narrow road that goes right through the center of a village, only to become a highway again on the other side.
I was driving back to the Ecole des Trois Ponts from the north yesterday, on the N7 (<i>Route Nationale 7</i
. Once I got onto the N7, I figured I had no problem, as I knew my exit. When I had come up from Lyon, I exited the N7 at exit 66. Job done, I relaxed my guard, following the N7, following the signs towards Roanne.Well, the N7 wandered through a few <i>ronds-points</i>, and I kept following the signs to Roanne. And where did I end up? Duh - Roanne! Roanne CENTER, that is, right in the city, well off the highway.
You see, I had to go past the bulk of Roanne to get to exit 66, and since I was following the signs to Roanne, and the N7 really ISN'T a highway north of exit 66, at some point I had deviated from the N7, and struck off towards Roanne <i>centre</i>.
My falut was to not carefully observe the REALLY SMALL square signs that said "N7", so as to stay on the "highway" (or what passed for a highway at that point). But even better would have been to follow the big signs to a destination further along the N7, such as Lyon, for instance. That would have kept me on the N7 until I saw my exit 66.
- Larry
Sep 24th, 2004, 08:11 AM
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<b>You'll hear less from me next week</b>
By the way, "falut" in my previous message should have been "fault".
We're leaving l'Ecole des Trois Ponts tomorrow morning, for smaller towns in Provence. Hence I'll lose my great high-speed internet access, and be at the mercy of internet cafés, and probably French keyboards. I won't be able to do as much posting as I have been doing. But I'll try to drop a line now and again.
- Larry
By the way, "falut" in my previous message should have been "fault".
We're leaving l'Ecole des Trois Ponts tomorrow morning, for smaller towns in Provence. Hence I'll lose my great high-speed internet access, and be at the mercy of internet cafés, and probably French keyboards. I won't be able to do as much posting as I have been doing. But I'll try to drop a line now and again.
- Larry
Sep 24th, 2004, 08:45 AM
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Hmm. Europcar have an agency at Perrache station too, but it appears to be in the station concourse itself. Parking round there is no fun at the moment and the whole area is a mess of roadworks as they are extending the tramline. So if you want to drop off the car in the city, it looks like Part Dieu would be your best bet after all.
As for dinner, apart from the places I mentioned before (and I admit, I'm a creature of habit - once I find a place I like I tend to go there a lot!!) ... you could try and get a reservation on the covered terrasse at Maison Villemanzy, on the slopes of the Croix Rousse hill. The food is good (though perhaps not amazing) and reasonably priced, but it's the view that people go for. If they don't have a table with a view, though (and these tables get booked up fast), it might not be worth the detour.
Another restaurant which is a bit of an institution in Lyon is l'Etage, on place des Terreaux. I've never eaten there but it's well known and popular here and has a good reputation. You have to go up a few flights of stairs to reach the dining room which overlooks the place.
Another place you could try (which I've never been to either!!) is le Petit Léon, which is the little sister to Jean Paul Lacombe's famous <i>restaurant gastronomique</i>, Léon de Lyon. They are next door to one another on rue Pleney in the 1st arrondissement.
Or you could just take pot luck... and perhaps you'll be able to give me some recommendations!
As for dinner, apart from the places I mentioned before (and I admit, I'm a creature of habit - once I find a place I like I tend to go there a lot!!) ... you could try and get a reservation on the covered terrasse at Maison Villemanzy, on the slopes of the Croix Rousse hill. The food is good (though perhaps not amazing) and reasonably priced, but it's the view that people go for. If they don't have a table with a view, though (and these tables get booked up fast), it might not be worth the detour.
Another restaurant which is a bit of an institution in Lyon is l'Etage, on place des Terreaux. I've never eaten there but it's well known and popular here and has a good reputation. You have to go up a few flights of stairs to reach the dining room which overlooks the place.
Another place you could try (which I've never been to either!!) is le Petit Léon, which is the little sister to Jean Paul Lacombe's famous <i>restaurant gastronomique</i>, Léon de Lyon. They are next door to one another on rue Pleney in the 1st arrondissement.
Or you could just take pot luck... and perhaps you'll be able to give me some recommendations!
Sep 24th, 2004, 12:06 PM
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Thanks once again, hanl. We've printed your last message to carry with us, and we'll let you know what we do.
I'm about to go to bed here after our last dinner at 3 Ponts. The food's been very good. I need to write more on the forum about our experience here, which has been excellent, but I'm too tired now to do it justice, so that might have to await our return in a bit over a week.
One thought occurred to me regarding driving, which I missed in my earlier message: parking. Heading for a parking lot, a car right in front of us pulled out of a spot on the street, and we zipped right in. Hey, I thought, a free spot! There was no parking meter. But as we walked up the street, a sign caught my eye that contained the words "Stationnement payant", or words to that effect, so I looked around some more, and asked someone for advice.
It turned out I had to pay for my space, as with a parking meter, but the system is different. At intervals along the street are small machines called "horodateurs". You decide how much time you need, and read what it costs. Then you feed in coins (as for a parking meter, you'd better have them with you), and when the display gets up to the balance you want, you push a green button. The machine prints a ticket with a date and time of expiration on it, and you stick in on the dash board above the steering wheel.
I've seen this system in the US as well. What's a bit tricky in France is that you may have to look some distance along the street to see the sign notifying you that the parking must be paid (and you need to be able to read it, of course). If in doubt, you might look on the dashboards of other parked cars to see if there are tickets there.
Then, it took me some time to locate the horodateur. It's not that large, and it's set on a post on the sidewalk. I had to ask for help finding it, and I had to walk about 100 feet from the car to the nearest one. The problem is looking for something when you don't know exactly what it looks like. Once you see one, it's easier to find the next.
See what happens when you encourage me, luvtotravel? You get lots of detail.
But we're off to Provence tomorrow; you'll hear from me less for a while. I may have some comments from time to time, but more detailed reports from now on will probably have to await my return.
- Larry
I'm about to go to bed here after our last dinner at 3 Ponts. The food's been very good. I need to write more on the forum about our experience here, which has been excellent, but I'm too tired now to do it justice, so that might have to await our return in a bit over a week.
One thought occurred to me regarding driving, which I missed in my earlier message: parking. Heading for a parking lot, a car right in front of us pulled out of a spot on the street, and we zipped right in. Hey, I thought, a free spot! There was no parking meter. But as we walked up the street, a sign caught my eye that contained the words "Stationnement payant", or words to that effect, so I looked around some more, and asked someone for advice.
It turned out I had to pay for my space, as with a parking meter, but the system is different. At intervals along the street are small machines called "horodateurs". You decide how much time you need, and read what it costs. Then you feed in coins (as for a parking meter, you'd better have them with you), and when the display gets up to the balance you want, you push a green button. The machine prints a ticket with a date and time of expiration on it, and you stick in on the dash board above the steering wheel.
I've seen this system in the US as well. What's a bit tricky in France is that you may have to look some distance along the street to see the sign notifying you that the parking must be paid (and you need to be able to read it, of course). If in doubt, you might look on the dashboards of other parked cars to see if there are tickets there.
Then, it took me some time to locate the horodateur. It's not that large, and it's set on a post on the sidewalk. I had to ask for help finding it, and I had to walk about 100 feet from the car to the nearest one. The problem is looking for something when you don't know exactly what it looks like. Once you see one, it's easier to find the next.
See what happens when you encourage me, luvtotravel? You get lots of detail.
But we're off to Provence tomorrow; you'll hear from me less for a while. I may have some comments from time to time, but more detailed reports from now on will probably have to await my return.
- Larry
Sep 24th, 2004, 06:47 PM
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Enjoying your reports, Larry. Thanks for taking the time. I appreciate all your details regarding driving in France! I've driven there, but any hints are still very welcome. I'm glad to hear you had a good experience at the school. Hope you will write all about that in detail when you get home!
Sep 27th, 2004, 05:18 AM
#34
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Not too much right now. We've got a slow connection at this internet café, the first we've seen in a while. We're in St. Rémy de Provence, and we'll stroll around a bit, and maybe drive into the surrounding area, and later pick up a friend who lives in England, who's comin in to Avignon to join us.
Beautiful weather here, but with lots of wind (le Mistral). We saw the psychiatric hospital where Vincent van Gogh went after he cut his ear off, and we've been visiting a lot of places where the impressionists painted.
Cigalechanta, we're keeping lists of everything we're eating, and will give a more detailed report when we return. At the rate we're going, we'll be ten pounds heavier. Each. Margie has particularly enjoyed all your suggestions about things to paint. She's starting to photograph doorways and windows, and we're noticing the lacy "campaniles".
We'll be in touch when possible, and as you know, we'll be home a week from today, at which point more detailed reports will follow.
Margie and Larry.
Beautiful weather here, but with lots of wind (le Mistral). We saw the psychiatric hospital where Vincent van Gogh went after he cut his ear off, and we've been visiting a lot of places where the impressionists painted.
Cigalechanta, we're keeping lists of everything we're eating, and will give a more detailed report when we return. At the rate we're going, we'll be ten pounds heavier. Each. Margie has particularly enjoyed all your suggestions about things to paint. She's starting to photograph doorways and windows, and we're noticing the lacy "campaniles".
We'll be in touch when possible, and as you know, we'll be home a week from today, at which point more detailed reports will follow.
Margie and Larry.
Sep 30th, 2004, 04:58 PM
#35
Larry,
I'm glad to hear that your trip is going well. It sounds like you enjoyed your stay at L'ecole des trois ponts. I can't wait to hear your final trip report!
Reading the report has taken my mind off the wait for the first of the Presidential debates. I'm hoping it goes well for the one from your part of the country.
I'm glad to hear that your trip is going well. It sounds like you enjoyed your stay at L'ecole des trois ponts. I can't wait to hear your final trip report!
Reading the report has taken my mind off the wait for the first of the Presidential debates. I'm hoping it goes well for the one from your part of the country.
Sep 30th, 2004, 05:06 PM
#36
I know what you mean, Larry. At home I don't eat three meals but there, it's three plus wine and apertifs, digestifs, and many pastis in between. I always can't fit into my clothes near the end of our trip.
I'm so looking forward to more pictures.
I'm so looking forward to more pictures.
Oct 1st, 2004, 05:59 AM
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We're in Avignon, and nearing the end of a wonderful vacation. Our friend from England has been with us for four days, and we just dropped him at the train station in Avignon, where we still are (but not for long). It was a lot of fun having him along. He was eager to do whatever we wanted, and we also did a lot of catching up.
The weather has been absolutely perfect this week - sunny and warm every single day, and cool at night. The two B&B's were both great. Dinner at Le Mas de Cante-Perdrix a couple of nights ago was one of the best we've had in France, and that's saying something. We'll eat there again tonight.
We've driven around (and a bit through) Les Dentelles, and the Cotes du Rhone wine country. We visited Orange between the 2 B&B's. Today we went to our second large market, at Carpentras, before coming to Avignon to dance on the bridge.
Everyone talks about the Sunday market at l'Isle-sur-la-Sorgue, which we visited last Sunday. The town is beautiful, and the market was a lot of fun. But the market in Carpentras on Friday is similar in size, or even a little bigger, minus the antiques. It was easier to walk through (l'Isle was packed shoulder to shoulder). We greeted several vendors we had bought things from in l'Isle on Sunday who we saw again in Carpentras.
Due to having to drop our friend at the train, and the pressure of time, we never got into the Palace of the Popes, where the Vatican was in Avignon.
We haven't seen the debate, and need to go buy a paper. Every French person we've talked to in France hates Bush, and quite a few have commented that they simply can't understand Americans. Same goes for us.
We haven't decided yet what to do on our last day in Provence, nor chosen our final restaurant in Lyon. But we HAVE decided to drop the car in Avignon a day early, and we'll take the TGV back to Lyon. This will save us a lot of driving, and we won't have to drive in and out of Lyon and park the car.
That's it for now. You may not hear from us until we return Monday night. I promise more detailed reports will follow, with menus, and of course more detail on the Ecole de 3 Ponts.
Larry & Margie
The weather has been absolutely perfect this week - sunny and warm every single day, and cool at night. The two B&B's were both great. Dinner at Le Mas de Cante-Perdrix a couple of nights ago was one of the best we've had in France, and that's saying something. We'll eat there again tonight.
We've driven around (and a bit through) Les Dentelles, and the Cotes du Rhone wine country. We visited Orange between the 2 B&B's. Today we went to our second large market, at Carpentras, before coming to Avignon to dance on the bridge.
Everyone talks about the Sunday market at l'Isle-sur-la-Sorgue, which we visited last Sunday. The town is beautiful, and the market was a lot of fun. But the market in Carpentras on Friday is similar in size, or even a little bigger, minus the antiques. It was easier to walk through (l'Isle was packed shoulder to shoulder). We greeted several vendors we had bought things from in l'Isle on Sunday who we saw again in Carpentras.
Due to having to drop our friend at the train, and the pressure of time, we never got into the Palace of the Popes, where the Vatican was in Avignon.
We haven't seen the debate, and need to go buy a paper. Every French person we've talked to in France hates Bush, and quite a few have commented that they simply can't understand Americans. Same goes for us.
We haven't decided yet what to do on our last day in Provence, nor chosen our final restaurant in Lyon. But we HAVE decided to drop the car in Avignon a day early, and we'll take the TGV back to Lyon. This will save us a lot of driving, and we won't have to drive in and out of Lyon and park the car.
That's it for now. You may not hear from us until we return Monday night. I promise more detailed reports will follow, with menus, and of course more detail on the Ecole de 3 Ponts.
Larry & Margie
Oct 4th, 2004, 04:59 PM
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We're back, but just, from a great vacation. Long reports will follow, but not until tomorrow, after we've gotten some sleep. I've got lots to say, but it will probably take some time to get it all out.
(Dinner on our last night in Lyon was at <i>Le Rond de Serviette</i>. I had the crab and leek tart, followed by frogs' legs, which I hadn't eaten in about 30 years. A great <i>tarte aux poires</i> for dessert.)
More to come.
- Larry
(Dinner on our last night in Lyon was at <i>Le Rond de Serviette</i>. I had the crab and leek tart, followed by frogs' legs, which I hadn't eaten in about 30 years. A great <i>tarte aux poires</i> for dessert.)
More to come.
- Larry
Oct 6th, 2004, 07:08 AM
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<b>Trip Report is in a new thread</b>
We're back, and now somewhat rested, although still a bit jet-lagged and discombobulated.
I thought it better to start another thread for the trip report, so that the title would make it clear that it's a trip report, and that we're no longer "on the road". It's entitled, "Trip Report, France: Lyon, Roanne, Ecole des Trois Ponts, Provence (Luberon & Vaucluse)". You can find it at:
http://www.fodors.com/forums/pgMessa...p;tid=34533499
Both Margie and I will add to it as time allows. Thanks again to all the Fodorites whose advice helped to make this such a wonderful trip.
- Larry
We're back, and now somewhat rested, although still a bit jet-lagged and discombobulated.
I thought it better to start another thread for the trip report, so that the title would make it clear that it's a trip report, and that we're no longer "on the road". It's entitled, "Trip Report, France: Lyon, Roanne, Ecole des Trois Ponts, Provence (Luberon & Vaucluse)". You can find it at:
http://www.fodors.com/forums/pgMessa...p;tid=34533499
Both Margie and I will add to it as time allows. Thanks again to all the Fodorites whose advice helped to make this such a wonderful trip.
- Larry
