A conundrum for me is whether to obey laws in Europe that i consider stupid - namely the no crossing at red lights for pedestrains even if there is no traffic in sight! Now i usually wait with the Germans, Austrians and Swiss for what seems hours until the cross now light comes on, but at times i bolt - feeling guilty about doing so. I was once fined for jay walking in Austria! Here in the US where i live the law says you can cross against red lights if there is no traffic coming which makes sense to me. In Germany i can't help but think of the stereotype of Germans following orders and not dare cross. Whereas in France Italy and most other countries they cross perhaps too chaotically against the lights.
Well what do you think? Do you obey these 'stupid' laws, like i do, or do you cross?

In Los Angeles you can get a ticket for walking against a red light or jaywalking, I have.

In some of these places you may be run over by a stupid car if you don't obey their stupid laws. Is it worth it? Do as the locals do.

Not your job to decide if the laws in another country are stupid or not, PalQ. If anything, I'd be more conscientious about obeying the local laws, and keep my opinion to myself.

In my country (Molvania) we do not have laws against theft of personal property. So I think these laws in your country are stupid. Please remember this when I steal your wallet.

Do you drive through a red light, too, if there's no traffic coming?

Well - being a New Yorker - I view many of these "laws" as suggestions - and always cross right through traffic - would never think of waitng for any kind of light. (As a pedestrian only - in the car we always obey the lights - unlike NYC).

Why not just bolt out on the dinner check when no one is looking. You'll never be back in that country for a long time anyway.

You loser.

At home I pick and choose... but traveling I figure I am a visitor in their country and obey any laws I am aware of.

Seems the least a polite guest can do in someone else's "home".

I believe there are some completely silly alcohol related laws in the USA (not drinking it in a public place or not handing it to underaged people, for instance). If I'm not mistaken, paying a prostitute is illegal too, and the age of consent if often as high as 18 (15 in France)

So, do you advise me to pay a 16 yo for sex after giving her enough alcohol to get her drunk, preferably while driving a car above the ludicrously low speed limit if I come to visit the country?


Generally speaking, I don't think it's a good idea to break laws you find stupid while vacationning in a foreign country. Actually, this idea is probably much more stupid than the law, if it's actually enforced.

Being German, I can assure you that I cross red lights as a pedestrian all the time, provided there are no children around and I don't take any risk with passing traffic!

However, I will only adhere to this policy here at home (and I will admit it, a bit reluctantly in Austria, which happens to be so very much related...;-) ).

I will do my best to comply with any rules, even if I may find them ridiculous, when I am abroad (and especially in the U.S. quite a couple come to mind!). This is just a matter of respect towards the country hosting me and that I chose to travel to. It also has something to do with democracy. This is my country where I am entitled to elect the legislative authorities and thus am sort of entitled to change laws that I don't deem right. This is not the case in a foreign country - and when its citizens decide that they want certain procedures followed in their territory, who am I to refuse?

So you're saying that tourists should follow the letter of the law even if locals don't - thus in chaotic Italy i should be the only dunce waiting at the no cross light when there's no traffic?
The only time i cross the Verboten pedstrian go light in Germany (or Austria, which wasn't the phrase was more German than Germany at one time?) is either when i'm alone and no cars are coming or when Germans like you, often immigrants, cross. I appreciate your point - do you think that Germans are becoming more Italian-like in regards crossing lights - like Brits who often now disregard queues, becoming less orderly?

I just take my cue from the locals. That generally means in Germany, Austria, and Switzerland I don't cross at red lights (I was roundly scolded once in Germany for doing that, and learned my lesson). In the Mediterranean countries, the locals seem less inclined to follow the law, so if others are crossing at red lights, I'll probably do so, too.

In Italian cities, I wait for nuns and priests before venturing across the street no matter what color the light is.

That is exactly what my son said!
It is a Stupid law and why should he obey it..
Of course, he was 5 then so we counciled him on the idea of people make rules for certain reasons and he is just gonna have to go by them or pay the price.
In NYC we jaywalked all the time, I hear they will ticket me in California.
I think that is sort of stupid, but then when enough people get killed jaywalking, some one has to do something!
So anyway- I obey the law because mostly, 1- my luck, someone would run over me 2- I do not want to include the inside of a jail cell as part of my travel itinerary

PalQ,

in fact, and I do admit that I sometimes find myself to disapprove despite the fact that I am still not that old and fairly liberal, I believe that the image of Germans being orderly is one of the past.
We have had so much immigration and other influences imported from travelling and otherwise, that to my feeling nowadays we tend to be more dis- obedient than Americans, Brits and other nationals are.
This might also be influenced by a state that is regulating life to such a large extent that it sometimes makes oneself feel better by knowingly ignore another stupid law (apart from the ones that even I, being in the legal business, simply do not know).

I worked in downtown Dallas a few years ago and one of my coworkers got a $50 ticket for jaywalking - yikes! There are policeman on bicycles that I had seen ticketing people before, but I never knew the amount. I heard it has since gone up to $80 per offense.

In Denver, it seems that no one pays any heed whatsoever to traffic lights (half the lights don't have walk/don't walk symbols anyway). I rarely see any sort of police officer in downtown Denver (as compared to Dallas) and the ones I do see only appear to be dealing with the panhandlers (which are a huge problem). Hence, jaywalking is rampant - oncoming cars, or not!

Seems to me that enforcement certainly influences what people do re: these "little laws".

Austrians cross against the light (at least in Vienna) all the time. Maybe it's just the tourists not crossing, believing what they've heard about Austrians.

<So you're saying that tourists should follow the letter of the law even if locals don't>

PalQ, do whatever you want... YOU asked US "what do you think" not what do we think others should do.

suze: touche! i agree.

Some thirty years ago I crossed a street in Lucerne when the light was red and no cars were in sight. I was greeted with screams of "Verbotten!" from both sides of the street and nearly died of embarrassment on the spot. I honestly think those days are long over. These days I see locals crossing against the lights all the time when there is no traffic.

What would I do? If there is a whole crowd waiting for the light to change, I certainly wouldn't be the one to ignore it and go anyway. But if others started to cross, I'd join them. OK, so call me a sheep.

TexasAggie, we were warned by the hotel staff at the Brown Palace in Denver about no jaywalking. They must really be serious about that in Denver!

Whassup with Denver? My God - what would Prof Ward Cornell say about that?

My guess is that he'd be figuring out how to make the whole thing about him, make claims to be a member of the long victimized Jaywalker tribe and finish up by representing the injustice of it all in a highly original painting featuring Campbell's Soup cans.