kam

Hello all, am in the very primitive stages of planning a trip to York/Newcastle/and Edinburgh. Have to fly from the west coast (U.S) and want to minimize the number of days we have a car. I know we'll need a car while in Newcastle to tour in North Umbria. No real desire to spend time in London, but think that's where we will land from San Francisco. The train to York leaves from Kings Cross. Any suggestions for transportation to Kings Cross from Heathrow, overnight hotel in London before train, or should we think about flying into Manchester or Edinburgh, although that would require a connection from California. Thanks to all for anything you can suggest.

Candace

I think the underground runs directly between the two. A taxi would cost around 35 pounds.

Candace

They also have an airport express bus I think it only costs 7 pounds.

John

Hi, Kam, <BR>You will get plenty of advice on this one, but my recommendation is to book a connecting flight either to Edinburgh or Newcastle and get the hard bits over with right away. The hassle of negotiating Heathrow to central London, then fussing with bags, the train or a hotel, then taxis or bus and more bags, etc. on the other end...well, I think connecting right through, then collapsing in a heap at your destination makes more sense. If you can't save money on a through ticket on your airline, there are a number of cheap internal flights out of Heathrow, for example British Midland for (this year) £69 each way LHR-EDI for tickets bought in the US. You'll make up the difference in hotel + taxi + train costs the same day. <BR>If you want to schlep, you can ride the bus or the tube from LHR to King's Cross, get on the train, and then hope you wake up when it rolls into York or Newcastle.

Paul

Kam, <BR>Concerning air from SF, you could opt the daily Continental flights to Glasgow <BR>or Birmingham (change in Newark) or the flight to Manchester (via JFK, I think). <BR>They often have very good fares when booked very early. I prefer the daily KLM non-stop to Amsterdam with easy connection to Edinburgh or Glasgow (or Bradford/Leeds for York). The KLM flight saves beaucoup time in the long run. Last time it was only 9.5 hours to A'dam, may be faster now that Canada and Russia approved airlines to fly closer to the North Pole - supposed to chop another 1.5 hours off flights from the West Coast. Good luck, bypass London if you can to get a head start on your holiday.

Paul

Kam, <BR>P.S. - I'm sure it already is, but make <BR>certain Durham is on your must-see list.

amik

Can't help you too much with these logistic decisions... However, if you end up staying overnight in London, I have a good B&B, walking distance from Kings Cross station. <BR>Also, I have a wonderful B&B to suggest to you in Edinburgh. <BR>Just got back a week ago. <BR>If you're interested, e-mail me and I'll send you the info. <BR>Amik.

Nigel Doran

I would fly to Manchester or E'burgh directly, saving time and money in London. From Manchester, you can get a train directly from the airport to Newcastle or you could tarry a while in the city and get a train easily from the city centre. Get a return ticket, as that is cheaper than two singles (single=one way) but always tell the ticket officer exactly when you are wanting to travel to ensure you don't get the wrong ticket. <BR>And I second not missing Durham. I M O, the cathedral is more impressive than the one at York. <BR> <BR>If you do go from Heathrow, once again, try to book ahead with a ticket. www.thetrainline.com will help you, but remember that Apex-style fares mean you have to travel on those dates, so either ensure you get on those specific trains or buy an open ticket (and that can be £££!) <BR> <BR>P S Northumbria is all one word.

Diane

Should you decide to go via London after all (after all the above advice), perhaps because you want to see York and places between York and Scotland, here's a plan: <BR>Take the Heathrow Express, which goes to Paddington Station. It's quicker and cheaper than a taxi, and it's easy to do with luggage unless you have more than you should be carrying. Get a room in one of the hotels or B & Bs on Norfolk Plaza, one block south (I think) from Paddington. We stayed at the Norfolk Plaza Hotel, which was comfortable and had a delicious breakfast buffet. It wasn't particularly expensive (for London), but cheaper B & Bs line both sides of Norfolk Plaza. The best thing about staying on this Plaza is that it is a lovely, quiet park, so it is QUIET at night and you can get a good night's sleep. You can search for hotels all over England on the Smoothhound.co.uk site. <BR> <BR>The next morning take the short walk back to Paddington and find the bus stop for the circular route between the train stations. I believe they are the SLl and SL2 (SL for Station Link), one going clockwise and one counterclockwise. Find the bus stop and check the schedule the day you arrive because I believe they pass only about once an hour (maybe twice). They expect people with luggage--have a low entry with no steps. It's very easy to use, though not as fast as the tube (underground). We took the SL from Kings Cross to Waterloo (to go to Paris) and later from Waterloo to Paddington (to go to Heathrow and then home) in June, <BR> <BR>York is fun (do a search on it if you want advice about what to see there). If you travel north from York you can see Castle Howard. I recommend one of the ruined Cistercian abbeys, Rievaulx (sp?) or Fountains. Have a great time!

frank

You can't fly from the US to Edinburgh directly, it would have to be Glasgow or Prestwick for Scotland.

Diane

We are flying from London Luten to EDI in August on EasyJet - $80 round trip. You can check their website - lots of flight times.

Julian

John's advice (16 July) is really sound - if you don't want to visit London, don't expend the time, money and stress in staying here. I really can't see the point in flying to Manchester, Birmingham or Leeds Bradford, and would suggest going straight to Glasgow (Prestwick) and hiring a car there. Glasgow to Edinburgh is a very straightforward 50 miles or so. Durham is a further 140 miles from Edinburgh and York is only about 70 miles from Durham, so it's all very manageable. Although Easyjet's prices are very attractive, London Luton airport is a pig to get to from Heathrow or Gatwick and you should really connect to an internal flight from the same airport. By the way, British Midland partners United and BA partners American so you should have no problems with through ticketing. <BR>If you do stay in London, I would follow Diane's advice and stay around Paddington and get a bus or taxi to Kings Cross. Diane is also right about the abbeys - if you do go to York, try to visit Fountains Abbey near Ripon (and Ripon itself is worth a very quick look en route). Fountains is a beautiful ruined abbey in very attractive grounds. The Yorkshire Dales National Park is also well worth touring. You should include Durham just as everyone else says.

kam

Wow, thanks everybody! Yes, I should know that Northumbria is one word if I intend to visit--slip of the fingers or the brain? Durham is certainly on husband's list--he's read a lot about the history of this area. I like the idea of flying from Heathrow maybe to Glasgow and then driving into Edinburgh. This is a return visit to Edinburgh, although it was a hundred years ago, but husband has never been. What does anyone think of reversing the itinerary ie, fly into Glasgow, rent car and drive to Edinburgh, spend a couple days there, drive via Durbam and castles to somewhere near Newcastle, spend a couple days there, and then drive down to York and spend a couple days. Then I'm stuck--drive back to Glasgow and return car, fly out? We are fairly experienced travelers, pack only one bag each (especially when a train is involved), and have spent a lot of time in London so no need to take the time this time. But, we do love taking the trains in the UK. Perhaps this time a plane is better though. If we fly UA to Heathrow and connect to British Midlands will we need to change terminals? Where do we clear customs--Glasgow? Any suggestions for an overnight hotel in Glasgow? Thanks for any and all.

John

Hi, Kam, <BR>I think your reverse itinerary makes a lot of sense. Fly to Edinburgh from LHR (yes, a terminal change) and pick up a car when you're ready to hit the road; it's an unnecessary expense and parking nuisance in Edinburgh proper. Or you can fly into Glasgow (Abbotsinch is the city airport - Prestwick is a now regional airport in Ayrshire some distance from everything) and get a car or take the train to Edinburgh, then eventually south. (I wouldn't bother with flying to Glasgow - there are lots of flights to EDI and the cost is the same.) Leave the car at the last town (York, for instance) before you go to London, then take the train, or else drive and drop at LHR on the way out. Most major rental agencies in the UK allow free drop-offs. <BR> <BR>On the way from Edinburgh south, try not to miss the chance of a couple of hours on the Holy Isle, reachable at low tide from the mainland near Berwick. It will make your visit to Durham Cathedral (a compulsory stop) more meaningful. Down the coast a couple of miles is Bamburgh, with a serious castle looming over the village. Northumbria is a great area, too often missed by tourists with pedals on metal.

Amanda

Durham's to the south of Newcastle so you can probably visit whilst you're staying there. Other Northumberland recommendations are Alnmouth, Dunstanborough (castle), Hadrian's Wall. I used to live in Durham - so if you have any questions about the area...just ask!

kam

John, We travel at a snail's pace trying to see every little detail of places--no pedal to the metal (who else could spend 2 weeks in Wales!). That said, for a two week visit do you you think there's enough to do in York, Yorkshire and around Newcastle with touring many of the castles and maybe we should skip Edinburgh altogether? I lived for 6 weeks in the Lake District some time ago and we went back as a couple more recently so don't want to repeat that. Can you tell me anything about Scarborough or Bamburgh?

Julian

John's right again - I only mentioned Glasgow Prestwick because I thought it still took transatlantic flights. With regard to Kam's last post, I have been on business to Scarborough on a number of occasions, and quite frankly I would give it a miss. It's okay but there are plenty of other much nicer places to go. There is plenty for you to do in the North of England, Yorkshire and the southern half of Scotland to easily fill a fortnight. The Coastal tour of the castles in Northumberland has already been mentioned (Bamburgh, Dunstanburgh, Warkworth etc) but there is also Hadrian's Wall (eg Housesteads Fort), and some very nice scenery (for example, the drive to the top of the Otterburn firing range is great when it's open). Holy Island is accessible by a causeway - tide details are available at http://www.northumberland.gov.uk/VG/tidetabl.html. There's also a great deal to do and in North Yorkshire (how about the brewery tours at Masham, for example). At least talking about this makes a change from the usual circuit of Bath, the Cotswolds and Stonehenge etc which most people from the US seem to end up doing!

John

Kam, I would never recommend skipping Edinburgh. For pictures of Bamburgh (also links to all sorts of pix of the UK and regions), go to this site: http://www.freefoto.com/pictures/ukn...urgh/index.asp <BR> <BR>I think you can find plenty to do in two weeks in the area.

Emily

Totally off the subject... <BR>Is "Julian Smith" a common name in the UK like "Bob Jones" would be in the US? Just wondering b/c I remember a Julian Smith from summer courses in Caen, France four years ago. Small world if they're one in the same!

Joan

We just got back and had a wonderful time. Great B&B in Edinburgh--Stuart's Guesthouse. Also, we stayed in Haworth in Yorkshire and loved it. It's where the Bronte sisters lived and wrote.Have fun!