I am trying to decide whether to catch the night train from Venice or Milan to Paris next June with family of four. I see that there are some advantages to flying as has been pointed out to me by some who post here. Is it true that there is no shower on the night train ? That may settle this question once and for all.

Go to www.seat61.com and you can see pictures of the accommodations offered.
Click on Italy on the left-hand side bar and then scroll down to the "guide for accommodations."

You'll see that in the First Class doubles there is an en suite toilet and shower offered.

But be aware that those showers are not big by any means, but adequate and better than none at all.

All three night trains from Italy to Paris have an 'Excelsior' carriage - these are new carriages where the sleeper compartments have individual showers and toilets. The other carriages are older and have no showers. Obviously, the Excelsior compartments are more expensive.

Hi ok,

If you go to www.sncf.com you will find that 2 adults and 2 children in 1cl compartments with shower will cost at least 660E.

www.volareweb.com has evening flights for about 200E for the 4 of you.

Note that the fare Ira quoted would probably be for the passage itself as well as the accommodation. It would obviously be less expensive if you were traveling on passes.

All depends on what you want out of the journey. You would be, obviously, "saving" money by not having a brick and mortar hotel room for the night and the experience of the night train may or may not be memorable for you/the children.

On the other hand, if the main concern is saving money I would, train buff that I am, opt for the air travel...that coupled WITH another night in a conventional hotel would probably still be cheaper than the train.

Good luck. Some of us here do realize that getting there in the fastest manner isn't always the most desirable option.

Hi topman,

Yes, the price quoted is the discounted fare for 2 1cl doubles with shower.

>Some of us here do realize that getting there in the fastest manner isn't always the most desirable option.<

Oh, I agree. We are going to visit the children and grandchildren in Sacramento and Tucson over Thanksgiving.

My first thought was to take the train from Atlanta and see the countryside.

We didn't mind having to spend the night in New Orleans, but the train leaves at 7:00 AM (both ways), and my LW found that a bit bothersome.

We also decided that having to take buses (2) as well as trains to get between Tucson and Sacramento made this trip something of an expedition.

By air, we fly nonstop Atlanta/Sacramento and Tucson/Atlanta and one-stop Sacramento/Tucson.

Train Fare $3700. Air fare $1075

Sometimes slow travel just ain't worth it.

I'm not an expert on overnight train travel, as a matter of fact I HATE it.

But from everything I've heard, even if you supposedly have a shower on board, don't expect it to necessarily work.

Thank you for clarifying that a shower is available - the gentleman I spoke with at raileurope.com said not. I should specifically ask for the Excelsior carriage. Well, I am still undecided, however, I have lots of time to decide ?

Ira, does the air fare on volare.com fluctuate ? Will the prices fall if I keep watching and waiting ? The taxes are as much as the fare, so total cost does come out to about 75-80 Euro one-way to Paris per person.

You might also go to www.whichbudget.com to see if there are any other low-cost air options between the two cities.

Patrick brings up a good point about the operating condition of the showers but I suppose you apply that principle to about any aspect of travel.

Those showers on trenhotels and other night trains have always worked for me and I can tell you the level of service on European is far, FAR above what you get on Amtrak.

BTW..IF you end up doing the rail route and RailEurope says what you want isn't available, try using another agency such as Railsaver or Railpass.

I love traveling by overnight train! It's great fun as long as you have a private cabin. Mine have never included a shower, just the two bunks, window, small sink, and toilet down the corridor.

Thank you for the information. However, I am still unclear as to what a T4 is. Is this an open cabin ? The Excelsior is described as having a private key. Does this mean a T4 cabin cannot be locked ? How concerned should I be about this ? We are a family of 4,therefore, a T4 sounds resonable. The Excelsior is pretty pricey, unless we have a pass. Can somebody describe to me what a T4 is ? Thank you.

T4 means Tourist(i.g.2nd cls)- 4 banks.
That's a compartiment that can be locked.

For Top Man: I agree with you that RailEurope are ill-informed and they over charge. Can you please tell me about Railsaver and Railpass ? Do they book single tickets and single berths ? If so I shall add them to my notes.

For Okoshi 2002: A T4 is as Kappa says, and I want to add that I think you have no washbasin and am sure you have no shower. No problem: the four of you take turns to go to the toilets at the ends of the car and wash as much of yourselves as you like. The result is a damp toilet floor, but you can live with that, and as you have seen the T4 is much cheaper than two first class doubles. I agree with Top Man that RailEurope are better avoided. I think you could write an e mail to say what you want, date, time, and style (how many beds, shower or not) to specialist agencies, offer to pay by credit card, and ask each of them the fare. My notes on agents are these.

You can use Euraide in Florida, http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homep...e/homepage.htm, telephone 1 941-480-1555 fax 1 941-480-1522 [email protected]). Also you can book through four firms in Britain:

Trainseurope Ltd, of Cambridgeshire and London, take credit card bookings by phone and mail tickets to any address. Have the widest access in Britain to rail systems and tickets. http://www.trainseurope.co.uk/ - E-mail [email protected]. Phone 00 44 900 195 0101 - calls from Britain cost 60 pence or 40 euros a minute, maximum 5, but if the enquiry results in a booking, the cost of the call is deducted from the final invoice. Phone Mon to Fri 10 to 5 British time

German Rail UK: www.deutsche-bahn.co.uk/ Phone : 00 44 870 243 53 63 then 6. Fax : 00 44 208 339 4700. E-mail : [email protected]

Ffestiniog Travel, site http://www.festtravel.co.uk, e-mail [email protected], phone 00 44 176 651 2400

Inside France (Canterbury). Phone 0044 1227 450088. 29/30 Palace Street, Canterbury, Kent, CT1 2DZ. Booking form on site www.rail-canterbury.co.uk/. Or e-mail [email protected]/.

For international tickets, berths and seats Trainseurope are ten percent cheaper than German Rail UK or Ffestiniog Travel. For domestic Italian trains they are cheaper again. German Rail UK are cheaper than Trainseurope or Ffestiniog Travel for domestic trains within Germany and may be competitive with them for international trips with a big proportion of miles in Germany. Trainseurope take Visa and MasterCard, but not Amex or Diners.

[email protected]

Hi ok,

>does the air fare on volare.com fluctuate?<

Yes. The closer you get to your travel date, the less likely to get the very low fares.

The prices I gave you were including taxes. They listed 29E per adult and 10E per child, + tax.