bendigo

We're planning an approx three week family trip from end of November, allowing around a week each for London (with a day trip or two) and Paris(with a day trip or two).
We are also allowing around a week for Italy. Our early thought was to base ourselves in Rome, with a possible side trip to Florence for a couple of days. However, are now considering the Thello night train from Paris to Venice. If we allowed a couple of days to see Venice, we would then move on to Florence for, say, two days, which would leave us with 3-4 days to see Rome.
Does anybody have experience with the Paris - Venice night train?
Is trying to see the "essence" of Vencie-Florence-Rome in 7 or 8 days too desperately rushed? My hope is that there will be fewer people about in mid December, making gallery and museum access somewhat easier, but perhaps this is a misjudgement?
Our family is self and wife in late 40's, and our three kids (two girls 20 & 18 and 16yo son) - we would still need to work out the trip detail, but I know it will be one of compromise - they're not all going to want to just do the things that I'd like to do and see (they certainly don't at home!!!). We live in Australia, so it will be a big trip.

thanks,

Rob

kybourbon

http://www.fodors.com/community/euro...eper-train.cfm

That's pretty rushed for three cities. I would narrow down exactly what you want to see in each and then decided whether you will have time. Pay attention to museum closing days. No point in stopping to do something in a city if what you want to see will be closed.

justineparis

Well you don't really have 7 full days in Italy,, the since on the 7th day you are leaving right? So that means you will have only 6 days. I think three cities is pushing it. I would do one or two days in Venice( yes, its pretty, yes its romantic, yes, its worth seeing,but.. the other cities have so very much more to see , especially Rome) and spend more time in Rome . Rome for 4 nights and Venice for 2, and remember, two nights really equals only one full day.



Your Reply

adrienne

You could do the three Italian cities in 8 days if you only see a few things. As to the time of mid December being less crowded - I wouldn't count on that. I can tell you that mid December in NYC is a lot busier than it is in August. There may be fewer non Italian tourists in December but there will still be lots of people who live in the area or who come to the cities for the weekend.

I don't have experience with that particular night train but I have taken a night train from Paris to Venice. What are your questions?

If your family doesn't want to do what you want to do doesn't mean you should not do things. Let them go off and see what interests them and you do the same.

Dukey1

I would goo to www.seat61.com for info and pictures about the train service including the rolling stock which has yet to be upgraded.

As to your three cities: I agree that you should plan carefully. It takes longer to get around in Venice than in the other two; there is certainly a lot to see in each depending on your interests.

kybourbon

Dukey1 - The link I gave above is a trip report about the Thello by maninseat61 with video links.

RJD

Paris/Venice night train. Wife and I have done it two or three times, but always in a first class two person sleeper compartment. It's adequately comfortable but cramped.
Not a good value for five of you in in first class and if you take a second class couchette you might wind up with a stranger in your space. And it would still be pricey. Not recommended.

bendigo

Thanks for your responses.
I note that there is a new night train due to commence operating in December that will run from Paris to Rome via Florence.
Thinking that we may be better to give Venice a miss (being on the water in the dead of winter has some drawbacks!), spend a couple of days in Florence, and then on to Rome for 5 days, which is more in line with the original plan.
Just need to get over the feeling that we need to see as much as possible when we are going that far - what really counts is the experience and the memories, not how many towns / sights can be ticked off a list.
I know that from my previous travels, and that's probably where I need to set a responsible "Dad" example!

justineparis

Venice does flood sometimes in winter, I have seen St Marks square knee deep in water,, and wooden plank boardwalks set up around it mostly for unprepared tourists to walk on( locals have rubber boots, tourists rarely so, lol )

nytraveler

I think there are a coupe of things yuo haven;t taken into account:

1) bad weather may make some travel difficult and touring unpleasant
2) it will get dark very early
3) some sights - it italy especially, have off-season hours that are very short - from 9 am to only 1 or 2 in the afternoon

I would not attempt to bounce all over Italy in only 7 days in winter - but would stay in Rome and do perhaps one day trip from there.

As for a night train - OK if you know you can sleep. I don't do them - want to be more comfortable than that.

bendigo

Thanks for the responses.

I've no idea whether or not I'll be able to sleep on a night train, but I've never dashed across Europe on a train in the middle of the night, so it has some definite appeal as a new experience.

I'm a fairly resilient traveller - I spent five weeks freezing in the USA a couple of years ago, with most of my accom in shared hostel dorms - my kids were surprised at how comfortable I looked with the backpack on, after it had sat in the cupboard for nearly twenty years!

The "roughing it" is likely to be more of a challenge for the rest of the family - wife not a big fan, and the kids untested, but if I can manage a decent standard of accommodation when we stop, the rest should just be part of the adventure - I hope ;-)

kybourbon

>>>I note that there is a new night train due to commence operating in December that will run from Paris to Rome via Florence.<<<

Same as Milan/Venice - Thello. Thello took this route (France/Italy night train) over in the past year.
https://www.thello.com/

bendigo

Talking to my travel agent today - she says we could easily fit in Venice by taking a couple of days out of Paris - says a week is too long for Paris, even with a day out to Versailles.
thoughts from anyone?

thanks,

Rob

Christina

It's hard to say as it depends on your style and desires. As a blanket statement, of course a week in Paris is not too long, what an absurd statement. It's probably one of the most interesting cities in Europe with a lot to do and see. However, it could be within your particular schedule if you have other priorities. YOu could make the same statement about London, that a week is too long. I personally find Paris more interesting than London, but I speak French and have some other local interests, so it's a little different, sure, than just a random tourist who hasn't been to any of these places.

I think if you want to do so much in Italy, it probably would make some sense to cut a day or two out of Paris to do that. It's just up to you as to which you prefer, that's all. There is no "correct" answer.

suze

Yes we did the night train Venice/Paris (transfered at Milan from a regular train onto the sleeper). We had a private cabin and it was nice/fun.

Yes I think 7/8 days for 3 cities is too rushed, but for me personally it's Florence I'd skip, keeping Venice and Rome.

suze

or Venice and Florence (but not all 3)

justineparis

Rob,, I haven't used at travel agent in over 20 years, and you have cited exactly why, most are not very experience, and have very little on ground experience in most destinations, they only know what they can see on a computer, and frankly are more concerned about how to sell products, plane tickets, train tickets, passes, hotels,, that is how they actually make their money after all ( and that is fair enough, some people can't seem to do it themselves so they do provide a service ) Ask her or him how often they have been to Paris,, was it on a FAM trip for 3 days( yes, I know a bit about the industry,actually proceeded to get my TA licence at one point, but realized they were a thing of the past once internet took off) A Fam trip is a familarization trip, often free or very cheap for travel professionals, and usually short.

A week in Paris, minus one day for Versailles, so she/he actually thinks 6 days is TOO long for Paris. Sad, but whatever,, perhaps for some people it is, but if we just want to list plans, then I know I could easily fill a week long itinerary for you, but bet she is cluless, told you to see the ET and Louvre right, lol ,,

bendigo

And Disney!
Although I know that she has travelled - but probably mostly deals with uni students and those on short breaks after international conferences.
Would much rather gather some views and ideas from genuine travellers rather than a TA. She'll be used for plane bookings only - via some employment relationships and discount entitlements, I think she can get me better fares than I can get directly - so in to London and out of Rome is all she'll need to worry about.
Happy to manage the rest myself, as I've done since I was much younger!

rosetravels

We spent two weeks in December with our kids about 5 years ago: a week in Paris, night train to Rome, then a week in Rome. Our kids were 14 and 24 at the time.

We had a 2 bedroom apartment in Paris and LOVED it. Really enjoyed the space and having a kitchen. It was fun to run out in the morning for pastries.

The night train...it's OK. It's really noisy and rattly and hard to sleep. I thought it would be lovely but it just wasn't.

We also loved our week in Rome. We arrived there on Christmas Eve so it was crowded because the city was full of Italian tourists. But it was easy to get around. We had an apartment there too.

Paris wasn't crowded at all while we were there. We absolutely loved our 7 days (and it wasn't quite enough!)

Then 4 years ago my daughter and I partly repeated our trip, with a week in Paris in January, the night train to Venice (and I swore to NEVER do that again), a few days in Venice, a few in Florence and then just 2 in Rome. We flew back to Paris then home.

So to recap: it will be less crowded, Paris could be a wonderful full week, don't take the night train, and I agree with those who suggest 2 locations in Italy, rather than 3. Also - check into apartments.

rosetravels

Here are our tales of our family's December trip to Paris and Rome:
http://www.fodors.com/community/euro...t-nuns-wea.cfm

There's also a trip report from the next year's trip w/ my daughter where we detail what went wrong on the night train (a burgler went through while people were asleep) and why we recommend flying:
http://www.fodors.com/community/euro...heir-way-t.cfm