Christina

I"ve had plenty of nontouristy experiences and I wasn't visiting friends. They just happen because you aren't doing the usual "must visit the Eiffel Tower" kind of thing, that's all. It's very easy to do, just stay in a neighborhood that isn't the center of tourist activity, walk around some neighborhoods, shop in small places that are in those neighborhoods (bakeries, grocers), even hang out in some cafes or parks. It's just your itinerary and place you stay, that's all. I've had a lot when I wasn't in a city just as a tourist of course, but studying a language or somethign else for a month, but even when just a tourist, you can control these by not just going to the main attractions. Of course you want to see those, or some of them, but you can do other things, too. Of course it really helps if you know the local language, I will admit, although if you run into people that know your language, great.

I've had some great conversations with locals in some small parks in Paris, for example, where I was just reading a book and relaxing for a few hours. But I speak French, so that wouldn't happen for me in Germany (these were not locals who were fluent in English, most are not if not in the tourist trade, especially if out of school a while). And even in Paris, I always stay in a neighborhood that is convenient and of course has some hotels, but it isn't where most of the tourists stay. So there are lots of locals in the cinemas, shops, cafes, and restaurants.

So I don't think it's that hard myself if you have a little bit of independence and some time, and get some maps, etc. It may involve a little more research than just the top 10 tourist attractions, also, such as what might be an interesting neighborhood to walk around, etc.

cathies

The locals have jobs to go to, houses to clean, groceries to shop for, cars to wash, dogs to walk etc. you are a tourist whether you like it or not.

NewbE

< Don't try so hard up front to foster some non tourist fantasy. You are a tourist, that's ok. You can have interesting, unique experiences none the less pretty much anywhere. >
limmy, that was very well and kindly put.

janisj

You aren't going to have many 'local experiences' like Christina describes unless you stay in a neighborhood that is out of the city centers/away from the major attractions, is full of 'locals' and , are there more than a few days. Christina travels to Paris a LOT and is fluent - even went to school there I believe. That doesn't really describe your trip . . .

Nothing (at all) wrong w/ looking for things off-the-beaten-path or semi-off-the-beaten-path -- but on a lightening trip covering multiple places you'll just have to accept you are a tourist.

Stay a couple of months in Paris or Prague or Berlin or somewhere and you'll end up doing a lot of the non-touristy things the locals have to do every day.

suze

<Where do I start?>

The easiest trip would be to pick any ONE place from your list and just go there for 2 weeks. I also think this would give you the best shot for the less touristic experience you seek.

If you speak a 2nd language pick a place with that language.

PalenQ

Where do I start?>

figuring out how long it will take between cities - about a day is needed all in all to relocate - packing up, schlepping to station, schlepping to hotel; unpacking - the point is to limit those time-consuming and money consuming moves - base cities work great - chose three bases that are not too far apart (unless flying) and do day trips from the bases.

amsterdam is an obvious choice for you - Europe's party capital for younger folk and bike central - try bike tours like Mac's Bike Tours or others.

Paris, Amsterdam and Berlin would be three great choices for you - Berlin has a very energetic and eccletic nightlife, again lots of younger folk. fly into Paris out of Berlin - so-called open jaw flight.

anyway for train info in general check out these IMO superb sites: www.budgeteuropetravel.com (download their free online European Planning & Rail Guide for lots of suggested rail itineraries in various areas; www.ricksteves.com and www.seat61.com - with such short time it is hard to imagine how any railpass could be cost effective (unless on the move every other day or so).

PalenQ

Too bad advice can't be given to newcomers from Fodorgarchs without the seemingly necessity to be 'snarky' as it was perceived by the OP at least - one of just zillions of examples of Fodorgarchs who have to sound cute, etc at the expensive of a new Fodorite who may be turned off by needless IMO snarkiness and never return as has happened many times - hurting Fodor's

Fodorgarchs give great info but often in a tone that ridicules and chases newbies away and yes Fodor's in general suffers!

Let's be gentle with newbies please - save your venom for other Fodorgarchs like me!

kovsie

Hi Mally! Three years ago I was as much a new tourist as you are now. My advice is to read and read - read the trip reports on Fodors, read other forums, make notes. Do your research, then come back with specific questions. You will find great advice from experienced travellers here, people are incredibly helpful and most are wise and kind too. (Just do not ask questions about tipping!!)

Use as guiding principles that you cannot see it all, that you will be back, that whichever country you choose will be great, that it is mostly better to do less and have time to experience more, that it is not the best to spend precious time and money on moving between places.

Choosing where to go is a big one. If you have a limited budget, you may consider starting in Eastern Europe (some prefer to call it Central Europe) - Croatia, Prague, etc. If food is to be your focus, look at Belgium, Italy or France.

You can use this tool to compare costs:
http://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/comparison.jsp

PalenQ

Timne of year also is a factor - go in high season and air fares are higher and hotel rooms less available so budget ones may be gone - shoulder season or winter sees IME much less expenses and less waiting in lines...

RioD

I would suggest you start off with a week in Paris and then train down to Barcelona. You could spend the rest of your time in Spain.
Spain is a wonderful country for first time visits. Most cities have very good hostels and cheap Airbnb rentals. Visit Barcelona, Madrid, and another place that appeals to you. Spain has great food, lots of casual nightlife (people just walking around very late, bars, cafes, etc.).
I mentioned a week in Paris because my thought was you could see the wonderful city and do a couple of days cycling outside the city.
Use the search function and look for posts here by Kimhe. He gives great detailed information on Spain.
If you had a choice of times I would choose early fall or late spring.

RioD

I think you can definitely have "local experiences" any place you go.
Wander the back streets, attend a play or performance, have a picnic in the park and strike up a conversation, etc.
Locals live in all the big cities and many enjoy meeting tourists.

I would not spend 2 weeks in just one place. It is so easy to travel to more than one.
I think when you mention "touristy" things you are thinking standing in line for the Eiffel Tower, etc. You can get away from that any place if you just walk a bit.

PalenQ gave you great advice about train travel. Locals travel that way too!
I think maybe a good idea would be not to think of "touristy" vs. "local", but to think about it as what is a new experience for you, (taking the trains, shopping in a grocery store, finding a tiny bar off the beaten path).

It's hard to narrow down because all of the places are so wonderful. Once you do, your planning will be easier.

menachem

www.spottedbylocals,com is your friend. you can get in touch with the locals too. and sometimes it's nicer not to go to capitals, but to "second cities": the scene will be much more local there. Like in The Netherlands that would be Utrecht or Rotterdam or even Groningen, in Belgium it could be Gent. Etc.

janisj

that link should be www.spottedbylocals.com

PalenQ

Locals IME are often eager to talk to folks in English - trying out their English but not in places like Paris where there are too many tourists who are often in a rush to see this, then that, then that, etc. But even in Paris it is easy to get into neighborhoods that see little of the tourist crush - go into a normal cafe and try to use your French and chances are you'll end up speaking English!

and yes trains and public transports are a great way to mix with locals.

crefloors

I checked quickly so may have missed it, has MallyG even commented or checked back here in the last few days?

rtwin80days

Hi MallyG,

Seems like you have been in a bit of a pickle here. Don't worry. I can vouch from my own experience, Fodorites are super awesome and super helpful. I guess you gotta be clearer about your demographics, interests, budget, etc for people to get some sense about your travel theme. Plus, you are getting into the trap all enthusiasts get - too much to see, too little time. I'd say have faith that you shall get to return, and treat this as your first trip to Europe.

One way to look at it is that let this be a grand European sampler - pick 3 big cities that are must-see in Europe out of these - Paris / Barcelona / Berlin / Rome / Vienna.

My input is - pick Amsterdam, Berlin, Vienna. They have excellent connections from one city to another. Take overnight Eurolines bus if you are on a budget, are young and energetic and don't mind couple of nights sleeping sitting up. Plus these cities have reasonable international flight options. Amsterdam is great for cycling. Berlin is great for history and alternate sub-cultures. Vienna is charming, great for orchestra and opera concerts, etc. You'd get to have different experiences if you pick these 3.

justineparis

I am sorry.. but I really thought OP was snarky to janisj , not the other way around.

If one looks for offense easily they will likely have a very hard time in Europe on their own .. one must look for the positive.. overlook perhaps a cultural clumsiness or different custom.. ( ie.. in some europeon countries smiling widely and greet strangers as you walk down the street and they may think you are crazy, in other places,, not saying a formal hello can be construed as being rude by locals,, and not doing so can get you the raised eyebrow.. even all you wanted to do was pay for one bus ticket)

And frankly, I am a bit tired of the "wanna be a local " thing too, I confess to considering it meaningless. having "lived like a local" for months at a time all through my child/teen years.. it just means not having as much fun as a tourist sometimes.. doing dishes, taking out garbage, going to work, dentist, drycleaner..

Tourists have great times going to local markets, then instead of taking groceries home,, they get to go have an awesome picnic, on a Tuesday, at noon,, with wine, then a nap in the sun.. way more fun to be a tourist most times!

crefloors

"wanna live like a local", honestly, I don't even know what that means. I agree with your justinparis, visiting is never like living and working in a place. In many cases I think sometimes "oh it would be fun to live here" and then realize maybe not so much.

PalenQ

to live like a local you must move into a neighborhood and get familiar with folks - hard to do as an itinerant tourists - I lived in an ordinary French town two months each summer for about ten years watching my son in the summertime and yes I felt like I was living like a local and was. But actually except for being with my son it got to be boring - same ole same ole stuff - was always eager to get traveling again.

Yes the idea of meeting the locals sounds great but is hard to do as a tourist.

NewbE

I think it's a misguided, romantic notion held mostly by people who haven't traveled much. I understand that seeing the same stuff everyone else sees seems not special enough, but otoh, going to Paris and skipping, oh, Notre Dame, because it's so "touristy" is nuts. To me, of course.

If I had never been to Paris, I would not want to waste limited time riding a bike out of the city by myself, especially if I don't speak French. That's me.

Millenials have a yen for the unusual, the artisanal, the curated, the off-the-beaten-path, because they all believe they are special snowflakes and require their experiences to be as unique as they are.

I find that hard to relate to.