New pope

Apr 19th, 2005, 09:37 AM
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Just a couple of quick notes to some of the replies. Ratzinger was forced into the Hitler Youth along with over 80 % of German youth at the time. Remember, Hitler's Germany was totalitarian. Ratzinger would desert the German army towards the end of the war.

As for Cardinal Arinze, he is in many ways more conservative than Pope Benedict XVI(Cardinal Ratzinger) and probably voted for Ratzinger in Conclave.

As this is a travel board, I would add that one of Pope Benedict XVI's biggest tasks will be to fill the many historic Cathedrals and Churches of Europe, many of which are little more than museum pieces. It will be an uphill climb but, if successful, the historic churches of Europe may be much more interesting and vital as travel sites.
Shane is offline  
Apr 19th, 2005, 09:52 AM
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Thanks for posting that link Bardo1. It makes me sad to see that change is probably not going to come soon.
SharonG is offline  
Apr 19th, 2005, 10:06 AM
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Shane, I realize that not everything is available on the Internet, but if you can find any online articles discussing Ratzinger's eventual opposition to the Nazis that might be interesting and helpful. I am no longer (not since early teens) a practicing Catholic, so the choice of pope is not my business except to the extent that the pope is a person of tremendous influence in the world and therefore, in a way, everyone's business. But I have to admit I'm less than thrilled with the idea of a pope who was a teenager or older in Germany during the Nazi period and whose past history was anything short of unequivocally ANTI-Nazi. However, I would welcome more information.
cmt is offline  
Apr 19th, 2005, 10:23 AM
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I read AP article saying the new pope deserted from training and faced possible death because of this.

I'm sure most every child of his age who met the requirements (breathing, not Jewish, not lame) was sent to youth camp.

If only they elected the cardinal from Dusseldorf, and he decided to become Pope Rolf ( "I have come Dusseldorf, that is why they call me Rolf. )

ncgrrl is offline  
Apr 19th, 2005, 10:25 AM
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I believe Benedict will serve as a care-taker for a few year as other, younger Cardinals develop stronger reputations.

If he was just two years older he would not even have been eligible to vote for pope so at 78 Benedict's service will likely be short.

Perhaps the world needs a few more years before electing a pope from the New World, probably Latin America.

mm is offline  
Apr 19th, 2005, 10:28 AM
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Cmt there is information regarding Cardinal Ratzinger's desertion from the army in most of the articles about Cardinal Ratzinger on Yahoo and CNN.

I love the Church, but I'm feeling discouraged with the choice to elect Cardinal Ratzinger as Pope.

kureiff is online now  
Apr 19th, 2005, 10:31 AM
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Thank you all for those Nazi comments. I am sure you all now a lot more than those cardinals who dared to elect him. This lack of common decency is really amazing.
logos999 is offline  
Apr 19th, 2005, 10:40 AM
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Whatever happened or he did in the past, is the past, finito.
Important is what he is going to do now for the Catholic church. There is no doubt that he is very conservative and actually we were in need of a more liberal Pope. I was born and raised Catholic but not practicing it. There are too many issues and i do not agree with lots of things within catholisim.
miguelgcuadra is offline  
Apr 19th, 2005, 11:15 AM
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Elizabeth_Reed: Thank you for a good laugh!

twina49 is offline  
Apr 19th, 2005, 11:21 AM
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Is it true that one of the rituals after a new Pope is elected is that one of the Cardinals touches his testicles to confirm that indeed it is a male.
miguelgcuadra is offline  
Apr 19th, 2005, 11:33 AM
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I heard this on an early am talk show. A mystic/seer type person in the eleventh century predicted every future pope--until this one. The new pope , according to the mystic, would be a man of olive skin or possibly black. We recently heard that the new pope would not be an obvious choice but it did appear that Ratzinger had the lead. I think the choice is a good one even though I am no longer a practicing Catholic.
nini is offline  
Apr 19th, 2005, 11:38 AM
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I personally am thrilled that it is not a far more rigid choice. And I was absolutely sure it would be a European. And it will be next time, as well. And also, don't count on it being a short term reign. It's obvious- former Catholic or not, most of the above posters and most Christians in general here don't really seem to understand the Catholic Church as an organization, and maybe don't care to. Many seem to have believed a lot of Pope JPII media hype over the years- which included so much "personal" warmth. Underneath was cold and rigid dogmatics- increasingly so with the years. And basic beliefs have never changed one iota. Even Pope John XXIII, if he were alive today, would not begin to consider the "change" that you are suggesting as pivotal.

This man is much smarter, brilliant in fact, and is far more diplomatic than either JPII or some of the Italians in the running would have been. He is the one who tried to talk JPII out of putting the birth control related material into that Vitae encylocal of '93-'94. He did not want to make it a manner of faith and morals/ infallible issue. He also has no tolerance for evangelical type off-shoots from what I hear/read. So I think he will be curtailing some of that in the USA,IMHO.

And what better person than one who has had to look evil right in the face! Until you have, almost all else is just rhetoric. After that you know who you are, and it's a strong faith to build upon. They say he is the kind of a person who can talk about clergy problems realistically and person to person. Doesn't flinch from calling a spade a spade- type of person. Good- he might review the priesthood and alter the requirements- not to include women, but for married men/ deacons etc.

If you think that women as priests or "choice" would ever be considered as church policy variables, don't. And we aren't going to see another 50 something year old Pope for a long, long time. The Church didn't last 2000 plus years by reflecting the belief systems of the subsequent current ages.

This J. Ratzinger is not as charismatic as the last Pope, very smart people seldom are. But I think we will see renewed strength coupled with ideas (have been missing) and solidification. And maybe some excellent verbage to include arenas that haven't been included for ages. He is a listener and much more of a conversation man, and has been at times extremely pragmatic.
JJ5 is offline  
Apr 19th, 2005, 12:45 PM
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Oh well, so the cardinals have elected the most conservative and dogmatic of their number to act as transitional pope (remember that the office he held up to this evening was formerly called the "grand inquisitor").

So there cannot be any negative surprises:

Either he surprises us liberals positively in opening up the church or he acts true to form, which means that we will get more of the same minus the trips abroad...
raspberry7 is offline  
Apr 19th, 2005, 01:19 PM
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He (Ratzinger) is definitely NOT the most conservative nor dogmatic in the College of Cardinals- not even close. By your definition of "liberal"- raspberry7, there are no liberals in the College of Cardinals.

Also their ages are almost all above 70. I believe when I looked at them last week there were only 10 or 12 under 68. This very well may NOT be a transistional position. He may well live to be 90- he is in much better shape than JPII was at 78.
JJ5 is offline  
Apr 19th, 2005, 01:32 PM
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JJ5, aren't you the poster who felt so confident that the "mystery cardinal" or cardinal in pectore who was secretly appointed by Pope John Paul II would come forward? Funny, I only counted 115 attending the conclave, with 2 stating they were too ill to attend. Who was that mystery cardinal, BTW? You're such an expert on all things Vatican, I'm quite sure you must know.

bookchick is offline  
Apr 19th, 2005, 01:52 PM
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No, I did not say he would, I said he COULD. Totally different. And he could have, if he was alive, had the right paper, and it was "safe" and prudent for him to do so. And the Catholic Reader and guesses that he is most probably in China and has been sick or has passed. And I happen to also be a life-long practicing Catholic, whose father is a practicing deacon for the Catholic Church, still at 86 next week, and who has lived/learned through 20 plus years of Catholic schooling at every level and in every span of my life. That's just the part before I started to teach for the Christian Brothers of De La Salle (French).

If you think I am a know it all, you should meet my parents. Both alive, mid-80's, Americans now- who come from Europe and have lived in the shadow of the Vatican city itself.

This is a quote from the new Pope: "We are moving toward a dictatorship of relativism which does not recognize anything as for certain and which has as its highest goal one's own ego and one's own desires."

JJ5 is offline  
Apr 19th, 2005, 04:03 PM
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Sorry, JJ5, but "very smart" people don't believe in the nonsense of the Catholic Church. Pope Benny means no more to me than the Easter Bunny.


I can't understand why intelligent people want to exist in the 15th century, living their lives like a Bosch allegory.
ThinGorjus is offline  
Apr 19th, 2005, 04:51 PM
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JJ5 -- very interesting information. Thanks for sharing. I, for one, am willing to hear what the new pope proposes before putting him in a box marked "conservative" or "inflexible".

The Catholic Church has survived for 2000+ years -- I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for it to fold.
Tries2PakLite is offline  

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