Gal_in_EdmondsWA

We've just returned from our 3rd trip to Italy in three years. Next year (1st 2 weeks of September, 2012), although we want to visit Piemonte for the first time, my husband would also like to drive or train through Germany, Austria and Switzerland. We plan to fly R/T to/from Amsterdam, and would like to spend 2 nights in Amsterdam and then travel a big circle and arrive back to Amsterdam. We are planning to have 16 full days in Europe. I know it's alot to cram in, but hubby would like to see highlights and then return to favorite spots the following year. We love beautiful scenery, history, wine and food. I've been to these countries before, but it will be hubby's first time to the Netherlands, Germany, Austria and Switzerland, and he would love to travel by train if possible. We've also driven extensively in Italy, so aren't afraid to travel by car if more expedient. Any suggestions re: routing? Is this even possible?

p.s. I know everyone's feelings about losing at least 1/2 day traveling to each place, and about not having more than 3 destinations...... Grazie mille!

zeppole

For Italy, instead of Piemonte, consider Friuli-Venezia-Giulia and the Dolomiti for the Italian portion of your trip. It will be easier to fit into your trip overall than Piemonte. However, you would do best to rent a car for this portion of your trip. (Even if you go to Piemonte, you will need to rent a car.)

I also suggest that you not try to complete a circle that forces you to fly out of Amsterdam. Sixteen days is not really a long time for such an ambitious trip. If you must start in Amsterdam or end in Amsterdam, fine. But fly open jaw -- into one airport and out of another, so you don't back track.

PS: I don't believe in those "lose a half day" dogmas. I can never figure out what people are doing that it takes them half a day to check in or out of a hotel. I do road trips all the time and enjoy scenic driving.

bobthenavigator

I like the concept except for Amsterdam---why there?

Aramis

They said they wanted Piemonte and they said they wanted a circle route from Amsterdam.

So, let's recommend the other side of the country (where they might well have been during one their 3 recent trips - ergo the desire to visit Piemonte) and a one way open jaw.

A circle from Amsterdam that includes Germany, Switzerland, and Austria, could look something like this;

Amsterdam - Brugge - Luxembourg (Mosel side trip) - Strasbourg (Alsace Wine Route) - Freiburg (Black Forest) - Bern (Lauterbrunnen Valley) - PIEMONTE - Verona - Bolzano (Dolomites) - Innsbruck - Salzburg - Munich - Bamberg - Aachen - Amsterdam

Those are, for the most part some of the places I think are worthy of a stay. You certainly can't stay in them all in a 16 day trip focused on Piemonte, and unless traveling by car, which I always do, I doubt if they could all be hit in "order" with any sort of comfort or efficiency.

Germany has the lowest rental cars in Europe (the Netherlands is not too bad either), and a car will be of infinitely more value in the Alps, along the Mosel, the Alsace Wine Route, etc.) so I suggest you look into the rental option closely, especially if your husband likes to drive. Maybe even do both; taking the train as far as Trier (Luxembourg) renting there to drive the Mosel and then continuing on with the car for the rest of the trip until you reach Aachen where you can drop it off and quickly train back to Amsterdam.

Gal_in_EdmondsWA

Wow, such quick and thoughtful responses! Thank you all so much! Bob, we can get great non-stop flights from Seattle to Amsterdam, and hubby has expressed a desire to return with me to visit Anne Frank's house; that's why Amsterdam.

I'll certainly review your recommendations and start charting a course and looking at transportation. I absolutely love planning the next trip, so will appreciate any and all comments.

nytraveler

That sounds like a great trip- I've been to almost all of those places and they are well worth it. And a roadtripis definitely the way to go. But toreally see much of anything you would need at least a month.

I think with 16 days you would need to pick and choose really carefully.

bobthenavigator

OK, but something has to give and Amsterdam is the outlier.

zeppole

Gal in Edmonds WA,

Even with a RT transatlantic flight in and out of Amsterdam, there are easy flights back to Amsterdam from all over Europe that would add to your ability to see all you want to see. I have flown out of Italy at 5pm in the evening and been in Amsterdam by dinnertime. The airport hotelsa at AMS are really quite good for doing a simple overnight before leaving on a transatlantic flight the next day.

If your husband would like to travel by train, I would give that the priority in trying to work out a plan, and only do driving as a last resort. If you opt to drive to cover all those miles, it will be relentless driving, especially if you stick to the concept of a circle.

I wouldn't now add Belgium (especially not Brugge) or Luxumbourg since neither was in your original wish list -- which was already very ambitious -- nor Strasbourg in France. I would head straight to Germany after spending time in Amsterdam, via train.

I think the Dolomiti in Italy are such a spectacular scenic sight that if you haven't seen them, it is really worth renting a car just for that. But I honestly don't think you have the time to do both Piemonte and the Dolomiti. So if Piemonte is what you really want, there are ways to get there pleasantly by train, although the scenic hilly wine country of Piemonte itself will be hard to access without a car.

But you can easily get rid of that car before returning to train travel or ending your road trip in Milan and flying to Amsterdam. If you decide to include the Dolomiti instead, there are a number of airports that fly to Amsterdam between Milan and Venice, but Transavia -- which is KLM's budget carrier -- out of Verona might work best. There are also flights out of Venice.

Have fun whatever you choose!

zeppole

PS: This article about great rail journeys across Europe is 2 years old, and it doesn't have your exact wish list, but I still think you might find it interesting reading.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/tra...cle5815577.ece

and scenic train routes

http://goeurope.about.com/od/scenict..._in_Europe.htm

http://www.examiner.com/european-tra...n-trips-europe

Maybe you can get out scissors and a paste pot, and a nice big map of Europe -- or did the internet do away with all that kind of fun?

PalenQ

, my husband would also like to drive or train through Germany, Austria and Switzerland.>

Trains if going largely to big cities cars for rural areas without good rail service though a surprisingly number of those places, like the Wunderbar Mosel Valley and Rhine Gorge and Saxon Switzerland in Germany can indeed be very well explored by train and boat - anyway great sites IMO for planning a pan-european rail extravaganza - www.budgeteuropetravel.com - check out their free and superb IMO online European Planning & Rail Guide for lots of rail itinerary tips - www.ricksteves.com - lots on railpasses - you may investigate the Eurail Select Saverpass good in 3, 4 or 5 countries of your chosing and cheaper than a Global Eurailpass good in dozens of countries; and www.seat61.com.

PalenQ

Germany, Austria and Switzerland. We plan to fly R/T to/from Amsterdam, and would like to spend 2 nights in Amsterdam and then travel a big circle and arrive back to Amsterdam. We are planning to have 16 full days in Europe.>

How about

Amsterdam 1, 2 3

Germany - Rhine Gorge/Mosel Valley 4, 5, 6

Munich 7, 8

Salzburg, Austria day trip from Munich 9

Train to Zurich, Switzerland and go onto Interlaken and base there or in a mountain village like Wengen or Grindelwald - this is Switzerland Alpine Wonderland etched in your minds eye and to me the highpoint of Switzerland both figuratively and literally

10, 11, 12, 13, 14 in Interlaken area - one day day trip to Lucerne, one of Europe's most gorgeous cities

15 back to Amsterdam

16 Amsterdam

Train to Interlaken

Gal_in_EdmondsWA

Thanks again for such detailed responses! I appreciate the help more than you know. Zeppole, I have a huge map of Italy taped to my office closet doors, which I've used extensively for the last 3 trips. I recently printed one of Central Europe in color just to visualize "the circle!" Great minds......

Gal_in_EdmondsWA

Since I don't want any of you to think your advice is in vain, we have decided to remove Amsterdam from the equation! I found that Lufthansa has non-stop flights from SEA to Frankfurt, so now we'll start "the circle" there. I think it will now be easier to incorporate Piemonte/Dolomites into the trip. Any changes in recommendations, or new ones? Again, your time and advice are much appreciated! ♥

bobthenavigator

Good for you---that makes more sense.
Get your car in Germany--best rates.

PalenQ

I loved staying in Cortina d'Ampezzo (sp?) in the Italian Alps - hosted a winter Olympics long ago and a great base for the whole rugged area - if sans car public buses are good - if going by rail you can take Austrian trains to a station from where Cortina is a short enough bus ride - we did it in the opposite direction - coming from Venice to Cortina by train/bus (really scenic route to drive too_ and then up to the Austrian rail system which connections everywhere.

charnees

I am still not sure why you must do the circle. Fly into one place and out of another, so you don't have to backtrack. If you check "multi-city" on the search box for flights, you can see all the alternatives, and it won't cost you more than having to travel back to your starting point.

Gal_in_EdmondsWA

@charnees: because we've discovered that we really only like non-stop international flights, and Frankfurt, Amsterdam, Paris and London are our only options. Therefore, we plan to fly in and out of Frankfurt.

Gal_in_EdmondsWA

I've seen mention of an inexpensive airline for flights within Europe. Can someone please remind me of the name?

bobthenavigator

There are many---most you can find at:
whichbudget.com

PalenQ

www.skyscanner.net is also a cheap air finder site often given out