Vince828

Hi there, i am seriously at my wit's end, this is my first time going to Europe and the info in internet is a little confusing, i need some advice here.

I will depart from Kuala Lumpur (Malaysia) in mid of November, i will be meeting a friend in Rome, then we will travel together. Due to some reason, i will fly to Paris first, alone, in order for us to travel in sequence, do i take the route as follow:
KL - Paris (alone) - Rome/Italy - Switzerland - Amsterdam - KL

Our initial arrangement on the duration for each country:
Paris - 3 days
Italy - 7
Switzerland - 7 days
Amsterdam - 4 days

Is the duration ok? based on each duration, which city(ies) would you recommend?

Appreciate your assistance in advance.

traveller1959

First of all, specify your interests - art, culture, architecture, history, scenery? - Then we can give you better advice.

Please keep in mind that in November Europe is cold, rainy, dark and dreary. No leaves on the trees. Southern Europe will be a little better.

Paris won't be the "City of Light" which it is in spring and summer. But you will have museum weather.

Southern Italy will be a bit better, but still expect cool, overcast and rainy days.

In Switzerland, do not expect to see mountains. Chances are great that they will be constantly in clouds. In the valleys, it will be raining, on the mountain tops it might be snowing. So, seven days in Switzerland will be o.k. if you concentrate on historic towns (Luzern, Bern, Zürich, Basel) and museums (there are excellent art museums in Basel, Bern and Zürich), but I am afraid you should forget about mountain scenery.

neckervd

I second traveller: don't visit Switzerland in November for outdoor things. Visit museums, castles, medieval cities (with and without city walls).
I would spend the whole 2 weeks in Italy (it will rain there too, but there is much more to see).

bilboburgler

Novemeber in Switzerland just seems a waste of time. I'd stay in larger cities where you can get warm and dry on a regular basis.

So where else to add? I'd put London in the pool for review.

southeuropetravel1

I have to agree with Traveller on all points.

Also, you are spending 7 days in Switzerland, I would spread 3-4 of those out against Paris IF you are big on museums. The Louvre itself will take you 2 days alone. It's a waste to go to Paris for 3 days. But, like Traveller says, if you are going to visit several towns in Switzerland and you don't care much about the museums in Paris, then I guess you are ok.

Looks like you're taking a loop that seems to make sense in terms of flights.

If you're ok with the drab weather…think about hitting Rome and then up to Milan in Italy. If you want warmer weather..go down to Sicily.

But again, really it's all about what your interests are in these cities?

Christina

Paris will be the City of Light because that term came from it being one of the first cities to have artificial gas lamps on the streets. Or reference to the Enlightenment, but it has nothing to do with the sun.

Vince828

Appreciate the info guys. Flight ticket has been purchased, as follow:-

06 Nov – KL – Dubai – 1910 2230
07 Nov – Dubai – Rome – 0355 0735
29 Nov - Amsterdam – Dubai 2200 0735
30 Nov – Dubai – KL – 1015 2125

Traveler1959:
Main interest will be food & scenery, followed by culture & architecture etc. (kindly enlighten me if there are some other things that I might miss out as a traveler)
I am aware of the weather and season for year end, that is why this period
Wasn’t our 1st preference in the plan (shorter day time) , we sticked to this
anyway due to some arrangement. We will also prepare some additional
clothes in case of extreme or unexpected weather.
As for Switzerland, does it mean that I should forget about going to swiss alp
and snowboarding as well? (I have been waiting for this for years!) Tentatively, Basel, Bern, Geneva, Interlaken & zurich are in our itinerary, possible?

Neckervd: Totally “No” for outdoor stuff? Which part of Switzerland would you
Recommend? The to-do-list?

Bilboburgler: Excluding London from our plan is painstaking, budget is one of the main reason,
I only have a couple of hundred pounds, I will bear the expenses for my partner
If we can really get there, can we possibly make it? It will be perfect even it is just for 2 or 3 days.
Because She has been dreaming for this for the past 1 year, missing the old days when she studied in London few years ago.
How can we do that?

southeuropetravel1: I will consider your suggestion on spreading more days in Paris, if
Staying long in Switzerland is not a wise move, would you be kind enough to share a few places
That I can visit in Paris? I will do more research from there.

Christina: I am impressed with your insight on what Paris really is, it will be great if you can
Share me some ideas on what to do in paris.

For the time being, these will be the places that we want to go in each country, appreciate your advice so we can continue on our research further and amend accordingly.

Italy: Rome, Venice, Milan, Pisa, Florence
Switzerland asel, Interlaken, bern, Zurich, Geneva
Netherland : Amsterdam
France – Paris

Ok to proceed?

bilboburgler

London

Tricky, look at yha.org.uk in London for cheap rooms, keep to ethnic eating, musuems are free, book the tunnel train trip early as they are cheaper booked early. Maybe do one of the free tours of London, lots advertised

all I've got

Tulips

Hi Vince, what do you mean by having only a couple of hundred pounds? What is your budget for your entire trip?
You have listed 12 cities in 22 days. That's a lot of travel and less than 2 days per city. Traveling will eat up a lot of your budget and time. Switzerland is very expensive.
Decide which of these places are most important to you and check travel times and costs (use www.rome2rio.com).

If your partner wants to go to London, perhaps go there instead of Switzerland. November is a good time for London, less so for Switzerland.

Vince828

Bilboburgler: great info
Tulips: Can't really recall how much Pound i left, probably less than 300, if i am not mistaken.we have changed 5000 Euro for this trip, initially this trip was only 2-week long, lastly we decided to to add one more week, we therefore intend to get some CHF, sadly we are presently suffering some drastic drop in our currency (due to some political issue which i feel ashamed to share out), so i might be a little tight on the cash flow now. i will try to discuss with her we find it difficult to let go either one.

Sassafrass

A problem is that you are counting every single day of your three weeks as time in places. It doesn't work that way. Some of your days will be used up in travel from place to place.

kerouac

In Paris, you might look into the Yves Robert youth hostel for accommodation: https://www.hihostels.com/hostels/paris-yves-robert

If you don't like hostels, there are actually a half dozen hotels in the same area with rooms starting at 25€, but they do not at all have the same level of comfort.

Tulips

The Swiss Franc is expensive for everyone at the moment, also compared to the Euro.

Deciding wether or not to visit London doesn't have anything to do with how many pounds you have. Changing your own currency for euros or pounds or CHF before you travel is not a good idea, as it is much cheaper to get whatever currency you need from a local ATM when you need it, and pay for hotels, meals etc by credit card.

Decide which places are most important to you, cut down on the number of cities, look up what it costs to travel from one place to another by train or plane, and how long it takes.

You can fly from Milan to London for 23 euros on Ryanair, for example. The train from Milan to, say, Geneva, will probably cost you more than that.

nandshah

Hi Vince,
I'm not sure about your motivation for going to Milan. If your interest is in culture and food, including scenery, I'd even strike off Rome and use the time to visit Amalfi Coast. This is just my two pence.

I agree with sassafraas, you are doing too many back to back stuff, try and spend enough time in a region.

nytraveler

Sorry - but way too many places in too few days. This will involve increasing your spending, increasing time wasted just getting from point A to point B, and also limiting the time you have to actually see/do anything esp since daylight hours will be short.

As for Switz November is the off season - when many hotels and restaurants are closed to do repairs/upgrade for the upcoming ski season (begins around christmas). The same is true of cable cars and out mountain transit. That early in the year natural snow may or may not be available (although there is always something on the mountaintops - but in many other ski places you may be too early - more cold rain and sleet than snow).

Vince828

Sassafrass: i did roughly take in consideration of the travelling time, just that i want to finalize the duration for each stop first, only then will i decide whether to take train or flight.

Kerouac: great suggestion, now i have more options apart from Airbnb.

Tulips: We have decided to exclude London & switzerland from this trip.

Nandshah: My partner wants to go to Lake Como & visit some historical sites and she doesn't want to let go Rome as well. Amalfi coast is great, unless she is willing to let go some, or else the trip seems to be back-tracked and it's gonna waste a lot of time.

Nytraveler: Thanks for the info, i took hours to persuade her with facts - to let go Switzerland, she finally agreed with my promise to get there by next year.

Since Switzerland is no longer in the picture, does it sound better to revise the duration as below:
Italy - 10 days
(Rome, Florence, Venice, Milan, Pisa, Sorrento, Naples (Amalfi coast) - which stop will you recommend for these 10 days)
Paris - 4 days
Amsterdam - 4 days

I still have slot of about 5 days, would you recommend me to put it into existing stops or explore other places like Belgium, Austria or Germany (sounds crazy)?

Sassafrass

Personally, I think the Amalfi Coast is one of the most beautiful places I have been. However, I would really think about whether the Amalfi Coast would be good in November. It is the rainiest month. Ferries will not be running, so you would have to take busses. I would not find that fun in rainy weather. There will be some bright sunny days in November, but you might not have them when you are there, so iffy.

Getting to the AC is a pip and will eat up at least 3/4 of a day each way. It is worth it if you want to stay a few days, you want to tour Pompeii, etc. and the weather cooperates. Unless Pompeii is high on your list of must sees, then not worth it, IMHO. OTOH, it will not be crowded then. Tough call. How much would you be upset if weather wasn't great?

Of course, you can decide on train or plane later, but when you figure days somewhere, you must not include travel time as part of those days or you will seriously miscalculate how much time you have.

Figure the top three or four places you want to see. Figure the time getting there. Add more if you have time left over. It seems like you can go to more places and see more things on a longer trip. In reality, the longer the trip, the more you have to slow down so you don't get burned out. What you can do is plan easy, extra day trips from every place in case you finish your sightseeing there and feel you must do something else.
A few ideas.
Rome: Ostia Antica or Hadrian's Villa if is it a beautiful day, or Orvieto if you want a walled city
Florence: Sienna
Venice: Padua or Vicenza or Burano
Paris: Versailles
Amsterdam: many smaller towns, villages, canals

You already have beginning and ending tickets

Nov 6
Nov 7, arrive Rome, jet lag, walk around, relax, sleep
Nov 8, Rome, whole day
Nov 9, Rome, whole day
Nov 10, Rome, whole day
Nov 11, travel to Florence, nearly 1/2 day (from hotel to train station, to Florence train station to hotel), 1/2 day to see sights in Florence
Nov 12, Pisa by train (might as well see Luca at the same time. They are very very close together and Luca is a beautiful walled city.
Nov 13, Florence, whole day
Nov 14, travel to Venice, fast train, 1/2 day hotel to train to hotel
Nov 15, Venice, whole day
Nov 16, Venice, whole day
Nov 17, travel to?
Nov 18,
Nov 19,
Nov 20,
Nov 21, travel to Paris, fly, at least 1/2 day
Nov 22, Paris, whole day
Nov 23, Paris whole day
Nov 24, Paris, whole day
Nov 25, travel to Amsterdam, at least 1/2 day for hotel to train to hotel
Nov 26, Amsterdam, whole day
Nov 27, Amsterdam, whole day or day trip to another nearby sight
Nov 28, Amsterdam, whole day
Nov 29, depart Amsterdam
Nov 30

Now you can see exactly what you have to work with and change them about as you see fit. You can also see, I skipped Milan and Como, Milan not as interesting as other places and would not want the Lakes in November. Already said why I would skip the AC.

Possibilities:
1. Add at least one day to Paris and see Versailles. Other two days someplace else.
2. Go from Venice to someplace in Germany or Austria for those three days, then on to Paris.
3. Go from Venice to Paris, and to Belgium (Bruges, Ghent, etc.) on the way to Amsterdam.
Go from Paris to London by train, go from London to Amsterdam, giving you 3 days in London.

There are many other options though and others may give you more interesting ideas.

Hope laying it out like this will help you pin things down.

Vince828

Sassafrass: Thanks for the tips, i think i will just leave AC to the next Europe trip, i want to reduce the risk over the bad weather/rainy season,

......
Nov 16, Venice, whole day
Nov 17, travel to Paris, fly, at least 1/2 day
Nov 18, Paris, whole day
Nov 19, Paris, whole day
Nov 20, Paris, whole day
Nov 21, Belgium - Brussels
Nov 22, Belgium - Brussels
Nov 23, Belgium - bruges
Nov 24, Belgium - Bruges
Nov 25, travel to Amsterdam, at least 1/2 day for hotel to train to hotel
......

looks good?

Sassafrass

Don't think you need two days in either Brussels or Bruges, unless there are some specific special places you want to see there. Of course, getting from Paris to Brussels will eat up a few hours.

pariswat

Indeed Bruges needs only one day.
Brxuelles, you can do most in one day too, you need more time if you want to do museums or such.