My friend and I (22 y/o females) are planning a cheap-as-possible trip through Europe for the last few weeks in June. Any advice on cheap (but nice) accomodations, things to see or things to skip, and general insider knowledge (ie, everything in City X is closed on Mondays) would be greatly appreciated! I know I can find a lot of info in various guidebooks, but I like to hear directly from people what worked, and what didn't. Our itinerary looks like this:

Munich (2-3 days)
Amsterdam (3 days)
Brussels (3 days)
Barcelona (4 days)
Madrid (4 days)

I am also having difficulty deciding on whether to buy a Eurail Pass or just buy a ticket in between each city. I looked up ticket prices on a lot of websites (RailEurope.com and the like) and some of the prices seem really expensive! A train from Munich to Amsterdam is around $170, and a train from Madrid to Barcelona is $90. Has anyone done these same trips for less cost? I feel like I'm missing a bargain somewhere....Thanks for any advice you might have.

We all have different travel styles, but I think that with onlly 2 to 2-1/2 weeks, you're spread over the map too much.

Spain is a long way from your other destinations. Save it for your next trip. You'll save time, money, and energy.

Focus on a less expansive area and you won't have to spend so much time and money on travel. Try the Benelux countries and Germany. Or Bavaria/Austria/northern Italy. Or Bavaria and the Czech Republic, etc.

Also, there's nothing particularly wrong with Brussels, but I think there are many nicer cities with more sights in your general travel area.

Some good areas to visit in your general area of travel (excluding Spain): Ludwig's various castles in southern Bavaria. Towns along the Romantic Road from the Austrian border to Wuerzburg. Munich with its many museums, gallaries, palaces, markets, beerhalls/gardens, parks, etc. Less travelled cities like Bamberg and Schwaebisch Hall, the famous Rhein gorge, the less famous (but our favorite) Mosel River valley.

I'm not as knowledgeable about Austria, but Vienna and Salzburg plus many small Alpine towns have been touted in many posts here at Fodors.

If you stuck to southern Bavaria and Austria, the Italian lake country and even Venice are possibilities.

If I were you and started in Munich, I'd do something like (assuming you will be using trains and buses):

Munich: 3 days with daytrip to either Neuschwanstein/Hohenschwangau castles (and Linderhof if time permitted) or the palace of Herrenchiemsee (and Frauenchiemsee if time permitted).

Train to Regensburg or Nurenberg for a medium size city experience--nice cities with a lot to see and do. 2 or 3 days.

Train to Bamberg for 2 days in a smaller city (about 40,000) that is an absolute gem. A former Imperial City with both a Pope and an Emporer buried there--its Altstadt is perfectly preserved in a great setting right on the Regnitz River.

A UNESCO World Heritage site, Bamberg's Altstadt is actually a functioning part of the total city, even though it is a picturesque as you could want. This is as compared to a place like Rothenburg o.d. Tauber which is picture-perfect pretty, but a walled off tourist set-piece filled with Christmas and candy shops that is not integrated with the main city surrounding it.

This uses about 1/2 of your precious time, so lets move on to the Rhein gorge by train from Bamberg. Stop for a few hours along the way at Wuerzburg, a bit larger than Bamberg and with some wonderful sights of its on. End up for the night in one of the charming (but touristy) towns along the Rhein.

Spend a night or two exploring this area, then the end of June would find you chugging into the Mosel River valley--since you're travelling by rail, I would suggest only 2 days here--while much is easily reached by rail, other parts are better by car.

Then on to Belgium and/or Holland to end your trip.

Fly out of Amsterdam.

This should just about finish off your time. This is just one possibility, we could (and folks probably will) come up with a dozen or more others. You could go into Austria and northern Italy instead of heading north. You could head over to the Black Forest and up to Heidelberg. You could travel by air and hit Berlin as well. Or head east and take in Prague.

Anyway, I'd still recommend eliminating Spain for this trip.

Rufus posted a great response to your questions. I won't add much - but just to stress the more you have to travel between places the more expensive your trip will be. Plus every time you move from one city/country to another you lose between 1/2 and a full day.

Concentrate on at MOST 2 countries if you only have 2.5 weeks. The exception might be the Benelux because they are small and close together so you could squeeze in a 3rd or 4th, or Austria/northern Italy/Switzerland/southern Germany are also close to each other so travel time is reduced.

Trying to go from far southern Germany up to Holland/Belguim, and then across the whole of France to get to Spain -- in 17 days - really not reasonable.

I agree with the previous posters and wonder if you have a reason to go to certain cities. Brussels is not a great sight seeing city but I would guess you are going there because you are close from amsterdam. Why not Paris instead of Munich? Maybe Amsterdam, Paris and then your cities in Spain. You might want to include a city in the south of France on your way to Spain.

If you are set on Spain and Munich you can go from Madrid to Munich on www.europebyair.com and skip the long and expensive train trip. It is $99 one way.

There are some wonderful two and three star hotels that will be just fine for you, just search on this site and put in "madrid hotels" for instance,and you will find suggestions. I had a great place in Madrid called hotel Europa that was around $50 for a single. Of course, that was before the dollar took a dive. Let me know if you have additional questions.

Thank you for the posts! I just wanted to clarify our itinerary a little...

My friend has family in Munich, so our starting point is set in stone. The only thing that both of us knew we really wanted to do was see Spain. We tried to fill in the middle with what we thought would be interesting. I know it is a bit impractical to cross France to get to Spain, but we are a bit short on time, and we thought that Paris/France deserved more than just a couple days. From what we had read, Amsterdam and Brussels were smaller cities, and we could "do them" in a shorter amount of time.

It seems that none of you are seem very impressed with Brussels. Do you have any suggestions on how to fill in a travel gap between Munich and Spain? Or, do you still think it is best that we draw up a new itinerary?

We are both new to this, we haven't travelled much, so I just thought I would ask for advice from people who were more knowledgable. Thanks again for the posts.

The best link I see from Munich to Spain is via Rome - - you'll have no problem filing the 5-6 days you have alotted to AMS/BRU - - consider at least 1-2 days away in Florence (only 95 minutes away by train).

See www.whichbudget.com for Germania Express (typical fare 88 euro, all taxes and fees included) to get from Munich to Rome (FCO) - - and then from Rome (Ciampino) to Barcelona (Girona) on Ryanair (fares from 19.99 euro with taxes and fees adding about 18 euro more)

I'd rent a car (yes, it IS possible for 22 yr olds to rent a car - - see www.its-cars-hotels.com - - car classes A-D) for exploring Catalunya to Madrid.

Best wishes,

Rex

As an alternative to Rome, you could visit Lyon (gastronomic capital of France). Also has wonderful Roman ruins and museum, lovely cathedrals and bridges, a tapestry museum, and old medieval streets for exploring.

If Spain is where you really want to go here is another option you could consider. EasyJet and other budget airlines are cheaper than most train travel. You could fly into Munich and spent time in Bavaria. Then you could take the train to Geneva and from there EasyJet to either Barcelona or Madrid.

This way you could spend 4 or 5 days in Bavaria, a few days exploring Switzerland and then, 4+ days in and around Madrid and 4+ in and around Barcelona.

Those two fares from Madrid look high to me. You can have lower if you e mail other agents, thus

Euraide in Florida, http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homep...e/homepage.htm, telephone 1 941-480-1555 fax 1 941-480-1522 [email protected]. Thereis a note on how Euraide eork at www.ricksteves.com/news/travelnews/euraide.htm.

Also four firms in Britain:

Trainseurope Ltd, of Cambridgeshire and London, take credit card bookings by phone and mail tickets to any address. Have the widest access in Britain to rail systems and tickets. http://www.trainseurope.co.uk/ - E-mail [email protected]. Phone 00 44 900 195 0101 - calls from Britain cost 60 pence or 40 euros a minute, maximum 5, but if the enquiry results in a booking, the cost of the call is deducted from the final invoice. Phone Mon to Fri 10 to 5 British time

German Rail UK: www.deutsche-bahn.co.uk/ Phone : 00 44 870 243 53 63 then 6. Fax : 00 44 208 339 4700. E-mail : [email protected]

Ffestiniog Travel, site http://www.festtravel.co.uk, e-mail [email protected], phone 00 44 176 651 2400

Inside France (Canterbury). Phone 0044 1227 450088. 29/30 Palace Street, Canterbury, Kent, CT1 2DZ. Booking form on site www.rail-canterbury.co.uk/. Or e-mail [email protected]/.

For international tickets, berths and seats Trainseurope are ten percent cheaper than German Rail UK or Ffestiniog Travel. For domestic Italian trains they are cheaper again. German Rail UK are cheaper than Trainseurope or Ffestiniog Travel for domestic trains within Germany and may be competitive with them for international trips with a big proportion of miles in Germany. Trainseurope take Visa and MasterCard, but not Amex or Diners.

RailEurope take a thirty percent markup on standard prices, and may be the source of your figures. You will have best results of you e mail each agent separately, without revealing the copies to others.

For three long journeys you can save a hotel bill and a day s travel if you book a couchette, a berth for the night with bedding and pillow, in a six berth compartment. The reference library of a city near you may have the Thomas Cook European Rail timetable. This shows couchettes on trains between Madrid and Barcelona or Paris, Barcelona and Milan or Basel, and Munich and Amsterdam or Paris.

The shortest distance, so lowest fares, for your cities runs Munich, Amsterdam, Brussels, Paris, Barcelona, Madrid, or the same eastbound. The Thomas Cook timetable for January shows these basic fares for second class seats, in euros, and at least some of the agents I have listed will match them
Munich, Amsterdam 105
Amsterdam, Brussels 39
Brussels, Paris 69 (but 52 if you buy separate tickets Brussels to Lille and Lille to Paris)
Paris, Barcelona 116
Barcelona, Madrid 59

[email protected]

After reading your last post then I would try to find someplace close to Munich or someplace that is on the way to Spain and drop Amsterdam. You could actually go straight to Madrid on Europe by Air and spend the rest of your time there. Add Seville and maybe some coastal areas to your itinerary and you are set.

Otherwise you can fly to Nice from Munich on Europe by air and spend time in the south of France then go on to Barcelona and Madrid by train. Italy is my favorite country so if you can get there then do that. Florence has alot of students there so I am sure you would have a great time there.

I would try to fly to save time and possibly even money and of all these places mentioned above just decide what interests you the most.

Renting a room will be your biggest daily expense. Since you have a tight budget, you should consider staying in youth hostels. Their prices range from $10-$40 per person, per night. This is much lower than even the cheapest hotel in a big city.

Research your hostel choices in each city you visit, as their quality can vary greatly. "Let's Go" is an excellent source for this.

You don't say what your interests are, and that is an important factor in deciding where to go. If you want to see great art, your itinerary could be very different than if you want to see the countryside, or mountains. Once you have identified your interests, pick destinations that satisfy them. If you like art and delicious food, Brussels might be interesting, but I think I would limit it to two days, and spend more time in Munich and Spain.

I would recommend a Fodors guidebook or two, and in view of your age, you might look into Rick Steves books and website. There is another website that caters to the backpacking community, but I'm too old to remember the name. Perhaps another poster can recommend it.

For an initial visit, I would suggest you limit your itinerary, as you will have to spend some time learning travelling skills. As you say Munich and Spain are musts, I would suggest you fly on an open jaw ticket, arriving in Munich, but returning from your last destination in Spain.

At your age, hostels may be a good economical option for housing. They somewhat resemble dormitories and cost far less than hotels. Many people like the cameraderie often found among hostelers, but others worry about not having a private bath, and theft. Personally, I think those worries can be dealt with.

Enjoy your trip.