moving to London...
Oct 23rd, 2004, 06:50 AM
#1
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moving to London...
I am not sure if it is ok to put this on a travel site, but I just try to find informations and as there are so many people who live or lived in London I will try!
I am a big fan of this city and a regular visitor for ages now. As my parents died and I just finished training as a bookseller I decided to go to London and live there for a year or stay there.
My question now; any tips, tricks, sites, ideas about what is important or interesting?
As I am german working permission is no problem!
Any help would be great!!!
I am a big fan of this city and a regular visitor for ages now. As my parents died and I just finished training as a bookseller I decided to go to London and live there for a year or stay there.
My question now; any tips, tricks, sites, ideas about what is important or interesting?
As I am german working permission is no problem!
Any help would be great!!!
Oct 23rd, 2004, 06:56 AM
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I think before anyone starts giving advice, you should advise your budget, and whether you might choose to stay here permanently, or just the year.
As for finding somewhere to live, I'd advise a studio in the best area (Mayfair/Knightsbridge) rather than a larger apartment in some dire suburb.
As for finding somewhere to live, I'd advise a studio in the best area (Mayfair/Knightsbridge) rather than a larger apartment in some dire suburb.
Oct 23rd, 2004, 06:59 AM
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If you do a search above there have been a couple of very extensive threads on a similar topic. (I believe it was for an American or Canadian - so some of the info will not apply - but probably at least some of it will be useful.)
Oct 23rd, 2004, 10:31 AM
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You've presumably familiarised yourself with the place already. So:
1. Virtually everyone in London is an immigrant, either from elsewhere in Britain or from another country. There is no group of native Londoners who are shunning you: you have to make your own social life. Many people come here, stay lonely and blame it on us. It can be difficult city to get to know people - so you need to work hard at hobby, church, work, friend, local political or whatever networks.
2. The classic way most people create a network is through flat-sharing. Your other posts (and your recent bereavements) imply you might think you're a bit old for that. Don't reject it out of hand. I've had friends, after middle-age divorces, relaunch theur lives partly on the basis of the new social networks gained through senile flat-shares.
3. The place is what you make of it. The papers are groaning with job ads - but virtually no-one I know is doing the job for which they have formal qualifications. Your own trade, for example, pays dreadfully badly and few workers in it have any kind of training. Don't expect to do well in a predetermined trade or profession (if that's your intention) - but keep an extremely open mind about where your real skills lie. London's extraordinary pre-eminence in so many areas of European life (something none of us could have predicted 50 years ago) lies in its collective preparedness to let people be precisely what they have the talent and determination to be. And its general near-contempt for formal qualifications is actually one of itsa main strengths.
4. Ignore MK2. You want the best value for money consistent with whatever access to the centre you need. For most people, that means the middle-class urban world that starts in Islington to the NE of the centre, then goes in an almost continuous Georgian/Victorian swathe anti-clockwise to Chelsea.
There are far better things to spend money on in London than an address in a swanky postcode that merely incites us all (tall poppy-cutters to a person) to mock you
5. Never forget that we're astonishingly direct to each other in many ways, and we really do call a spade a ****ing shovel. This isn't personal or anti-German. We all do it to all of us.
6. Have a terrific time
1. Virtually everyone in London is an immigrant, either from elsewhere in Britain or from another country. There is no group of native Londoners who are shunning you: you have to make your own social life. Many people come here, stay lonely and blame it on us. It can be difficult city to get to know people - so you need to work hard at hobby, church, work, friend, local political or whatever networks.
2. The classic way most people create a network is through flat-sharing. Your other posts (and your recent bereavements) imply you might think you're a bit old for that. Don't reject it out of hand. I've had friends, after middle-age divorces, relaunch theur lives partly on the basis of the new social networks gained through senile flat-shares.
3. The place is what you make of it. The papers are groaning with job ads - but virtually no-one I know is doing the job for which they have formal qualifications. Your own trade, for example, pays dreadfully badly and few workers in it have any kind of training. Don't expect to do well in a predetermined trade or profession (if that's your intention) - but keep an extremely open mind about where your real skills lie. London's extraordinary pre-eminence in so many areas of European life (something none of us could have predicted 50 years ago) lies in its collective preparedness to let people be precisely what they have the talent and determination to be. And its general near-contempt for formal qualifications is actually one of itsa main strengths.
4. Ignore MK2. You want the best value for money consistent with whatever access to the centre you need. For most people, that means the middle-class urban world that starts in Islington to the NE of the centre, then goes in an almost continuous Georgian/Victorian swathe anti-clockwise to Chelsea.
There are far better things to spend money on in London than an address in a swanky postcode that merely incites us all (tall poppy-cutters to a person) to mock you
5. Never forget that we're astonishingly direct to each other in many ways, and we really do call a spade a ****ing shovel. This isn't personal or anti-German. We all do it to all of us.
6. Have a terrific time
Oct 23rd, 2004, 11:38 AM
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Thanks for the tips!
Flanneruk, I totally agree with you that it is useless to spend money on a nice postcode-and I am pretty sure that flatsharing is the only way I could afford to live in London, at least until I have a good payed job.
I do not think that I am to old for that (hm, if I made that impression, does that mean that I sound/write in an old style;-)? I am 32)
I am not afraid to work in a different field, my questions start exactly there:
what would be the best way to start, should I try to find a job from here or should I try to find a room, go to London and start looking for a job via internet, jobagency, newspapers and going from door to door?
Would it be useful to improve my english first or should I do so when there?
I really want to live in that city, so I am open minded to every tip, idea and explanation given -and yes, to be direct is always so much nicer; it is so much easier to understand what one is really thinking!
Flanneruk, I totally agree with you that it is useless to spend money on a nice postcode-and I am pretty sure that flatsharing is the only way I could afford to live in London, at least until I have a good payed job.
I do not think that I am to old for that (hm, if I made that impression, does that mean that I sound/write in an old style;-)? I am 32)
I am not afraid to work in a different field, my questions start exactly there:
what would be the best way to start, should I try to find a job from here or should I try to find a room, go to London and start looking for a job via internet, jobagency, newspapers and going from door to door?
Would it be useful to improve my english first or should I do so when there?
I really want to live in that city, so I am open minded to every tip, idea and explanation given
-and yes, to be direct is always so much nicer; it is so much easier to understand what one is really thinking!
Oct 23rd, 2004, 12:16 PM
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Short of marrying a rich Brit, perhaps you'd be best to scour online agencies for jobs in London before moving here.
As for flatsharing, surely you like your privacy and have no desire to cohabit with strangers?
As for postcodes, a studio in Mayfair can be rented for around 250GBP per week (which is very low for London lets) which is comparable with a one bedroom/small two bed in the suburbs. Also, you have to look at this from a practical perspective - commuting costs money, an annual Zones 1-3 (tube) travel card costs around 1500GBP. So what you've saved on accomodation you've lost in time and commuting fees.
You should really think, and plan carefully, not rushing into things. Furthermore, many employers require previous experience, and certainly all will favour you if you have some. Perhaps you should try working in Germany for six months to get a good reference.
As for flatsharing, surely you like your privacy and have no desire to cohabit with strangers?
As for postcodes, a studio in Mayfair can be rented for around 250GBP per week (which is very low for London lets) which is comparable with a one bedroom/small two bed in the suburbs. Also, you have to look at this from a practical perspective - commuting costs money, an annual Zones 1-3 (tube) travel card costs around 1500GBP. So what you've saved on accomodation you've lost in time and commuting fees.
You should really think, and plan carefully, not rushing into things. Furthermore, many employers require previous experience, and certainly all will favour you if you have some. Perhaps you should try working in Germany for six months to get a good reference.
Oct 23rd, 2004, 12:26 PM
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M_kingdom I already have several months of job experience, and I think my boss will give me a good reference
It is beyond my budget to rent a studio in Mayfair
but somehow I think that there must be an other way of living in London then marrying rich-at least there are some people in London who do it;-)
It is beyond my budget to rent a studio in Mayfair
but somehow I think that there must be an other way of living in London then marrying rich-at least there are some people in London who do it;-)
Oct 23rd, 2004, 12:31 PM
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I'll be honest with you, living in a suburb (that is affordable - Hampstead and its environs are no more affordable than Mayfair) means living around seven (or more) miles from the centre of London. The cost, and daily grind of taking the tube to work isn't fun, it's a chore that people do simply to survive. I'd imagine you have a far higher quality of life in Germany at the moment, if you're not in one of the big cities, would you not prefer to be a big fish in a small pond?
I'm sure you love London as an holiday destination, but having to live and work somewhere is very different to an holiday if you can't afford not to work. Perhaps you could try it for one month - rent a short let - and see how you get on. It's a very big, and possibly brave, step.
I'm sure you love London as an holiday destination, but having to live and work somewhere is very different to an holiday if you can't afford not to work. Perhaps you could try it for one month - rent a short let - and see how you get on. It's a very big, and possibly brave, step.
Oct 23rd, 2004, 02:51 PM
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You may be right M_Kingdom, to move to London would be a big change from my living conditions here -at the moment I am moving to Berlin to the apartment I inherited of my late mum.
But I want to live in London since my first visit and somehow I think I have to try it, but maybe I have to settle first, put money aside and do it later, when having the possibility to live there for some months without financial pressure?
Commuting from far away isn`t an option, I have heard so many bad storys about it and I certainly do not want to move to London to live in trains and busses!
But I want to live in London since my first visit and somehow I think I have to try it, but maybe I have to settle first, put money aside and do it later, when having the possibility to live there for some months without financial pressure?
Commuting from far away isn`t an option, I have heard so many bad storys about it and I certainly do not want to move to London to live in trains and busses!
Oct 23rd, 2004, 02:59 PM
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Could you rent out the apartment in Berlin and use that income to live in London, and still have some left over to save?
If you really do settle in London, then after 18 months "probation" period you could consider selling your Berlin apartment and setting up permanent residence in London. However, do you have any siblings who have a share on the apartment, or it's all yours? Just a consideration from income point of view.
You don't want to sell the apartment and have to spend the capital on renting in London. I always see renting as a very short-term solution, you never have anything to show for it at the end of the day, paying a mortgage at least gives you your own property at the end of it. You might be fortunate, however, and be able to afford a place outright, in which case your living costs would be substantially reduced.
You're right to avoid commuting. If you're living in central London you might even be able to walk to work, if not, it'll just be a 10 min tube/bus journey which is far more preferable to some hour plus long marathon nightmare.
If you'd like any advice on London agents, and property law in the UK i'll be glad to be of assistance.
If you really do settle in London, then after 18 months "probation" period you could consider selling your Berlin apartment and setting up permanent residence in London. However, do you have any siblings who have a share on the apartment, or it's all yours? Just a consideration from income point of view.
You don't want to sell the apartment and have to spend the capital on renting in London. I always see renting as a very short-term solution, you never have anything to show for it at the end of the day, paying a mortgage at least gives you your own property at the end of it. You might be fortunate, however, and be able to afford a place outright, in which case your living costs would be substantially reduced.
You're right to avoid commuting. If you're living in central London you might even be able to walk to work, if not, it'll just be a 10 min tube/bus journey which is far more preferable to some hour plus long marathon nightmare.
If you'd like any advice on London agents, and property law in the UK i'll be glad to be of assistance.
Oct 23rd, 2004, 03:01 PM
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Londonholly, I know exactly how you feel. London is where I want to live as well. MK2 is right - I would start on a short term basis - you can check out the job situation, places to live etc.
Good Luck!
Good Luck!
Oct 23rd, 2004, 11:37 PM
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MK2 is creating spurious alternatives. To simplify, you have five choices for places to live:
- the very expensive, even by our standards, Mayfair to Knightsbridge belt.
- the less expensive belt of inner-city affluent residential areas from Islington to Chelsea (mostly, BTW, zone 1)
- the rather racier, cheaper zone from Battersea still anti-clockwise to Hackney. These first three groups are all easily accessible from the West End by public transport, cabs happily take you home and they're all within easy walking distance for everyone except inveterate couch potatoes and people with 6 inch heels.
- the rather distant high-status urban suburbs (Highgate, Hampstead, Greenwich, Dulwich, Richmond). These are fine if you use central London for work, films, theatres and restaurants. They're a real pain if club-style nightlfe is important.
- the rest of London, where about 90% of the population live. Personally I'd rather watch a Michael Moore film than live in this bit, but the other 7 million seem happy enough.
At present there really is no shortage of work in London, your English reads a lot better than that of most people doing jobs here, and employers have got themselves used to the job promiscuity of most people. I'd be inclined to come and get virtually any job within reason, and use that steady income to support you while you're networking your way to the job you want today, or to the job you decide you want as the networking modifies your goals.
PS: your style doesn't read old. I made an inaccurate deduction from the fact that both your parents had died.
- the very expensive, even by our standards, Mayfair to Knightsbridge belt.
- the less expensive belt of inner-city affluent residential areas from Islington to Chelsea (mostly, BTW, zone 1)
- the rather racier, cheaper zone from Battersea still anti-clockwise to Hackney. These first three groups are all easily accessible from the West End by public transport, cabs happily take you home and they're all within easy walking distance for everyone except inveterate couch potatoes and people with 6 inch heels.
- the rather distant high-status urban suburbs (Highgate, Hampstead, Greenwich, Dulwich, Richmond). These are fine if you use central London for work, films, theatres and restaurants. They're a real pain if club-style nightlfe is important.
- the rest of London, where about 90% of the population live. Personally I'd rather watch a Michael Moore film than live in this bit, but the other 7 million seem happy enough.
At present there really is no shortage of work in London, your English reads a lot better than that of most people doing jobs here, and employers have got themselves used to the job promiscuity of most people. I'd be inclined to come and get virtually any job within reason, and use that steady income to support you while you're networking your way to the job you want today, or to the job you decide you want as the networking modifies your goals.
PS: your style doesn't read old. I made an inaccurate deduction from the fact that both your parents had died.
Oct 24th, 2004, 01:01 AM
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With respect to Flanneruk, the suburbs you've mentioned (excluding Greenwich and Dulwich) are just as expensive, and in some cases more expensive than Mayfair/Knightsbridge for rentals. Hampstead is very near to central London, around 2-3 miles depending on what part you're living in. Highgate is a little further and around 4-6 miles, Richmond is somewhat futher away, and strictly speaking is in Surrey some 15 or so miles from the centre.
As for Islington, one could argue that it is in the centre as it is next to the CC (congestions charging) boundary in the EC1 postcode, however, The City (financial area) to me isn't the central London to a resident, it's completely dead at weekends. My personal defnition of central London is from W1 (boundary of Soho and Fitzrovia) to the Thames behind The Strand, along the Marylebone Road as far as the Westway, encompassing Bayswater/Notting Hill/Kensington/Pimlico/Belgravia/Knightsbridge/and SW3 portion of the King's Road.
You should be very careful buying in Hackney as the property prices there (I'm talking N1 Hackney here) are City performance linked as lots of City workers choose to live in N1 postcode. Furthermore, the area has lots of council estates, and can be a little alien feeling at times, it's not sound property investment area. You're renting so of course this shouldn't concern you.
From the new year onwards, it'll be a buyer's market. At the moment the situation is dire with very few sales being made, if you are going to buy, the new year will see you in a strong position to make very low offers, and get them accepted. This can be extrapolated to the rentals market, however, its performance is higher than the sales market.
I'd still advise living in Mayfair in a tiny (we're talking 200 sq ft) studio as opposed to your traditional 1/small 2-bed in less desirable areas. In terms of saving money with commuting and taxis you'll appreciate the difference. In fact, perhaps you could do a month's let in Mayfair, and contrast that witha month's let elsewhere?
As for Islington, one could argue that it is in the centre as it is next to the CC (congestions charging) boundary in the EC1 postcode, however, The City (financial area) to me isn't the central London to a resident, it's completely dead at weekends. My personal defnition of central London is from W1 (boundary of Soho and Fitzrovia) to the Thames behind The Strand, along the Marylebone Road as far as the Westway, encompassing Bayswater/Notting Hill/Kensington/Pimlico/Belgravia/Knightsbridge/and SW3 portion of the King's Road.
You should be very careful buying in Hackney as the property prices there (I'm talking N1 Hackney here) are City performance linked as lots of City workers choose to live in N1 postcode. Furthermore, the area has lots of council estates, and can be a little alien feeling at times, it's not sound property investment area. You're renting so of course this shouldn't concern you.
From the new year onwards, it'll be a buyer's market. At the moment the situation is dire with very few sales being made, if you are going to buy, the new year will see you in a strong position to make very low offers, and get them accepted. This can be extrapolated to the rentals market, however, its performance is higher than the sales market.
I'd still advise living in Mayfair in a tiny (we're talking 200 sq ft) studio as opposed to your traditional 1/small 2-bed in less desirable areas. In terms of saving money with commuting and taxis you'll appreciate the difference. In fact, perhaps you could do a month's let in Mayfair, and contrast that witha month's let elsewhere?
Oct 24th, 2004, 01:53 AM
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Thank you for all your help !!
At the moment I am in the middle of moving to my apartment in Berlin (no sibblings), so I can not do much about all this but at the end of next week I will hopefully be settled, and have got more infos and then I am coming back with lots of silly questions I hope you all will answer;-).
One room is rented to a dear friend until the end of december to cover my costs but I can not rent the whole apartment as I have to many things.. .She wants to stay longer but I will see how it goes when I am there first.
If I want to stay in London for good, I will sell my place in Berlin and buy in L.
Flanneruk, thank you so much for your friendly words about my english-but I have to do something about it and I know that the British Council in Berlin is offering courses so I will do something about this until I move.
I think the best idea would be to go to London for a month, check out as much as possible before and see what I can get (job, appartment). It is always better to be there and see the place and the job and decide there if it is usefull to give it a try. And I may have the small chance to get a room via a friend for a short period!
Thanks
!!At the moment I am in the middle of moving to my apartment in Berlin (no sibblings), so I can not do much about all this but at the end of next week I will hopefully be settled, and have got more infos and then I am coming back with lots of silly questions I hope you all will answer;-).
One room is rented to a dear friend until the end of december to cover my costs but I can not rent the whole apartment as I have to many things.. .She wants to stay longer but I will see how it goes when I am there first.
If I want to stay in London for good, I will sell my place in Berlin and buy in L.
Flanneruk, thank you so much for your friendly words about my english-but I have to do something about it and I know that the British Council in Berlin is offering courses so I will do something about this until I move.
I think the best idea would be to go to London for a month, check out as much as possible before and see what I can get (job, appartment). It is always better to be there and see the place and the job and decide there if it is usefull to give it a try. And I may have the small chance to get a room via a friend for a short period!
Thanks
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