Moving to Ireland
Oct 14th, 2012, 04:28 PM
#21
"<i>. . . or just move and see what happens. Is that approach not something we should consider?</i>"
That really isn't feasible. One can't just up and move to Ireland - or most anywhere else in Europe.
"<i> If it's that hard to move overseas, then how or why would people do it?</i>"
Why -- because it can be a wonderful/life changing experience. How -- it isn't easy, but why should it be? It takes effort. Have you heard how difficult it is for someone to move to the States?
That really isn't feasible. One can't just up and move to Ireland - or most anywhere else in Europe.
"<i> If it's that hard to move overseas, then how or why would people do it?</i>"
Why -- because it can be a wonderful/life changing experience. How -- it isn't easy, but why should it be? It takes effort. Have you heard how difficult it is for someone to move to the States?
Oct 14th, 2012, 04:36 PM
#22
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That's a very good point. We've been coming up with the idea because it would be a wonderful/life changing experience. I know it's not easy, but it almost seems impossible. Like the whole work permit thing is really our biggest issue. We're starting to save all the money we can. I haven't heard how difficult it is to get into the states. Is it just as hard or harder than going to Europe? I mean if we were to move to Ireland, isn't there jobs like in the states that you can just get to work? Like minimum wage jobs such as working at a grocery store, waiter or waitress at an restaurant. Small things like that.
Oct 14th, 2012, 05:48 PM
#23
"<i>I mean if we were to move to Ireland, isn't there jobs like in the states that you can just get to work? Like minimum wage jobs such as working at a grocery store, waiter or waitress at an restaurant. Small things like that.</i>"
No, there aren't that many jobs. The Unemployment rate is high (higher than in the States) so there are many applicants for every opening. And even if there were a lot of job opportunities, you wouldn't be eligible. All Irish people, all British people, most all European people would have priority/legal right to work. You wouldn't.
"<i>I haven't heard how difficult it is to get into the states. Is it just as hard or harder than going to Europe?</i>"
Yes - it is very hard.
No, there aren't that many jobs. The Unemployment rate is high (higher than in the States) so there are many applicants for every opening. And even if there were a lot of job opportunities, you wouldn't be eligible. All Irish people, all British people, most all European people would have priority/legal right to work. You wouldn't.
"<i>I haven't heard how difficult it is to get into the states. Is it just as hard or harder than going to Europe?</i>"
Yes - it is very hard.
Oct 14th, 2012, 06:04 PM
#24
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I'm not aware of any countries that allow random foreign citizens to simply emigrate there. For people from most countries to have a chance to get to the US is a lottery - most people are never allowed in and those that are may have to wait for years.
If you enter Ireland as a tourist you are allowed to stay 90 days. If you stay longer you are illegal and can be deported on the spot if found. You are not legally allowed to work - so would be hired only for jobs that are illegal (cash under the table) and often not even that. Why hire you when they can easily hire a local person legally - and not risk a penalty for having illegal workers?
If you're not aware of how difficult it is to get into the US - the huge discussions about illegal immigrants, how to keep them out, how to prevent them using scarce government resources - I'm sorry, but you must be living under a rock. Or do you think that your moving to Ireland illegally is somehow different than someone from Mexico or Guatemala entering the US illegally?
I really think that you need to learn a whole lot more about the world before you consider trying to live in a foreign country.
If you enter Ireland as a tourist you are allowed to stay 90 days. If you stay longer you are illegal and can be deported on the spot if found. You are not legally allowed to work - so would be hired only for jobs that are illegal (cash under the table) and often not even that. Why hire you when they can easily hire a local person legally - and not risk a penalty for having illegal workers?
If you're not aware of how difficult it is to get into the US - the huge discussions about illegal immigrants, how to keep them out, how to prevent them using scarce government resources - I'm sorry, but you must be living under a rock. Or do you think that your moving to Ireland illegally is somehow different than someone from Mexico or Guatemala entering the US illegally?
I really think that you need to learn a whole lot more about the world before you consider trying to live in a foreign country.
Oct 14th, 2012, 07:26 PM
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Kyle, what about Longhorn's suggestion of a year of study abroad in Ireland? It seems like the best way for a young person to go abroad and spend an entire year there. That's much better than going there for a few weeks in the summer.
Oct 14th, 2012, 09:22 PM
#26
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"I can say that a lot of large companies have stopped doing their exchanges and secondments to the extent that they used to."
That's absolutely not my experience. My +/- 30 yo nieces and nephews are being transferred abroad, or being headhunted to foreign jobs, to a degree unheard of in my early adulthood. But there are two crucial points:
- They're moving to where there's a call for their expertise - not to a country they've always dreamt of working in. Actually none ever did dream of living somewhere else: there are just better jobs on offer in China, Australia or the Gulf than at home.
- They've been working long enough to have established a real CV with real, marketable, achievements - usually with some industry reputation or record of published work.
They're also rarely doing the work their degrees would predict, and all share the philosophy that the world's their oyster. None wasted time after university on pointless jobs.
I don't know a single businessperson anywhere in the world who can effortlessly find managers of the quality he needs at home. If you want to work abroad, there's never been a better time than now. But the passport is to get real experience under your belt in your home country, where you speak the language, have the right intuitive understanding of how things work to network properly and are likely to be able to survive periods of no income far more easily than in a foreign country.
Businesses these days are more than happy to hire foreigners who present themselves as one of the world's greatest experts in (say) cost cutting bakery operations - which is why the big issue in London (where the tidal wave of foreign managers is showing no sign of abating)is the growing frustration businesses are feeling at immigration restrictions. Where jamikins is right, though, is saying that companies no longer move junior people round the world as part of their training. They want the right man or woman for a specific job - which means stuff on the CV.
Nothing wrong with getting a working holiday visa. But there's a high chance of starving if you're competing with hundreds of locals (and in Ireland, dozens of highly educated Poles) for that shelf-filling job. All those competitors have the advantage of living free in the huge new, low-interest mortgage, house their parents bought during the days of the Celtic Tiger and now can't sell. And of the unabashed preference Irish employers have of giving work to their town's immense pool of young unemployed.
That's absolutely not my experience. My +/- 30 yo nieces and nephews are being transferred abroad, or being headhunted to foreign jobs, to a degree unheard of in my early adulthood. But there are two crucial points:
- They're moving to where there's a call for their expertise - not to a country they've always dreamt of working in. Actually none ever did dream of living somewhere else: there are just better jobs on offer in China, Australia or the Gulf than at home.
- They've been working long enough to have established a real CV with real, marketable, achievements - usually with some industry reputation or record of published work.
They're also rarely doing the work their degrees would predict, and all share the philosophy that the world's their oyster. None wasted time after university on pointless jobs.
I don't know a single businessperson anywhere in the world who can effortlessly find managers of the quality he needs at home. If you want to work abroad, there's never been a better time than now. But the passport is to get real experience under your belt in your home country, where you speak the language, have the right intuitive understanding of how things work to network properly and are likely to be able to survive periods of no income far more easily than in a foreign country.
Businesses these days are more than happy to hire foreigners who present themselves as one of the world's greatest experts in (say) cost cutting bakery operations - which is why the big issue in London (where the tidal wave of foreign managers is showing no sign of abating)is the growing frustration businesses are feeling at immigration restrictions. Where jamikins is right, though, is saying that companies no longer move junior people round the world as part of their training. They want the right man or woman for a specific job - which means stuff on the CV.
Nothing wrong with getting a working holiday visa. But there's a high chance of starving if you're competing with hundreds of locals (and in Ireland, dozens of highly educated Poles) for that shelf-filling job. All those competitors have the advantage of living free in the huge new, low-interest mortgage, house their parents bought during the days of the Celtic Tiger and now can't sell. And of the unabashed preference Irish employers have of giving work to their town's immense pool of young unemployed.
Oct 14th, 2012, 10:55 PM
#27
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Fodors is a great forum for travel advice. However, if you intend to relocate overseas, you should instead be checking (1) the country's embassy in the USA, and (2) websites and forums dedicated to people who moved, or desire to move, to that country too.
For the latter, a google search to begin is "expats Ireland." Make sure you seek out info and advice from fellow Americans, Canadians, Australians and others who are not from EU countries. The rules are much different.
You may find a way. Or you may find that you can't qualify at this stage in your life. If that's the case, don't give up on your dream, you may still get there someday. Speaking from experience
For the latter, a google search to begin is "expats Ireland." Make sure you seek out info and advice from fellow Americans, Canadians, Australians and others who are not from EU countries. The rules are much different.
You may find a way. Or you may find that you can't qualify at this stage in your life. If that's the case, don't give up on your dream, you may still get there someday. Speaking from experience
Oct 15th, 2012, 12:21 AM
#28
In my last UK business (in a small market town) we had a small call centre, as well as the local English types with a nice voice and pleasant manner we had two Czechs, one with a BSc and one with a Masters and one Russian with their equiv of a Masters. Please note that the Russian had married an English guy and that they were all on minimum (legal minimum) wage. Our Marketing team were all Polish (on slightly better than minimum) and our designer was originally Indian.
A lot of Ireland will have hints of this structure in its smaller businesses
A lot of Ireland will have hints of this structure in its smaller businesses
Oct 15th, 2012, 09:33 AM
#29
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At nytraveler,
First off, I wouldn't be going to Ireland with the intentions of staying illegally. Clearly that would be an idiotic choice on our part. Also, if we were to move to Ireland illegally obviously that would be the same as illegal immigrants entering the US from other countries as well. All I was doing was asking some questions to build up some information on the idea of moving. Why would I care how hard it is to get into the states when I don't need that information?
At flanneruk,
Thanks for all of that information. I have considered acquiring a working holiday visa. I think my best bet is to obviously acquire more information on all of this and probably just visit Ireland for now. It seems as if the competition with everyone in Europe for a job pretty much cancels out the realism of me getting hired.
At Nutella,
Thanks for the information and being positive unlike some people on here. Lol have you recently moved abroad or somewhere you've always wanted to?
At bilboburgler,
That sounds really cool. Thank you for the information you provided.
At Camporico,
I have considered that as well. I think that would be a really good avenue to pursue.
At janisj,
Thanks for your information.
First off, I wouldn't be going to Ireland with the intentions of staying illegally. Clearly that would be an idiotic choice on our part. Also, if we were to move to Ireland illegally obviously that would be the same as illegal immigrants entering the US from other countries as well. All I was doing was asking some questions to build up some information on the idea of moving. Why would I care how hard it is to get into the states when I don't need that information?
At flanneruk,
Thanks for all of that information. I have considered acquiring a working holiday visa. I think my best bet is to obviously acquire more information on all of this and probably just visit Ireland for now. It seems as if the competition with everyone in Europe for a job pretty much cancels out the realism of me getting hired.
At Nutella,
Thanks for the information and being positive unlike some people on here. Lol have you recently moved abroad or somewhere you've always wanted to?
At bilboburgler,
That sounds really cool. Thank you for the information you provided.
At Camporico,
I have considered that as well. I think that would be a really good avenue to pursue.
At janisj,
Thanks for your information.
Oct 15th, 2012, 10:46 AM
#30
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KyleDollar:
This is one of my dreams. I'm 43, and have 25 years of experience in my field (Accounting), and am finding it very difficult to transfer. It is possible, I know people who have - but difficult, especially in this economy. You have several options, all long-term.
Save up enough to buy or create a business over there. If you can prove your ability to create jobs, you have a better chance of being accepted as an immigrant.
Take a graduate degree there. It will allow you to build contacts necessary to find employment, learn what it's like to live there, etc.
Transfer over - just because it's difficult doesn't mean it's impossible. Many companies here have branches/offices there. Google's EU headquarters, for instance, are in Dublin.
If you (perchance) qualify for a position that's over E60,000, you can get a green card rather than a work permit. The advantage of this is that the company can hire you without proving that no EU citizen can fill the job first. Granted, this difficult right out of college!
Move to another EU country and get EU citizenship. Then you can live and work in any EU Country without a work permit. Again, this is a long term deal. However, not all countries are in as bad financial straits as Ireland is right now.
If your parents or grandparents were born in Ireland, you may be eligible for Irish citizenship. Do some research.
Good luck!
This is one of my dreams. I'm 43, and have 25 years of experience in my field (Accounting), and am finding it very difficult to transfer. It is possible, I know people who have - but difficult, especially in this economy. You have several options, all long-term.
Save up enough to buy or create a business over there. If you can prove your ability to create jobs, you have a better chance of being accepted as an immigrant.
Take a graduate degree there. It will allow you to build contacts necessary to find employment, learn what it's like to live there, etc.
Transfer over - just because it's difficult doesn't mean it's impossible. Many companies here have branches/offices there. Google's EU headquarters, for instance, are in Dublin.
If you (perchance) qualify for a position that's over E60,000, you can get a green card rather than a work permit. The advantage of this is that the company can hire you without proving that no EU citizen can fill the job first. Granted, this difficult right out of college!
Move to another EU country and get EU citizenship. Then you can live and work in any EU Country without a work permit. Again, this is a long term deal. However, not all countries are in as bad financial straits as Ireland is right now.
If your parents or grandparents were born in Ireland, you may be eligible for Irish citizenship. Do some research.
Good luck!
Oct 15th, 2012, 01:08 PM
#31
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Thanks so much for that information. Now you said about taking a degree over there. I'm currently enrolled at Michigan State University. If I were to transfer over there or take more schooling, wouldn't I still have to acquire a work permit even if I found employment? Also, if I had the idea of say opening up a recording studio or restaurant, would they allow me to open this business without having a work permit? Once again thanks for this information. It was really helpful.
Oct 15th, 2012, 02:14 PM
#32
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There is a Third Level Graduate Scheme to enable recent graduate in Ireland to work up to a year:
http://www.inis.gov.ie/en/INIS/Gradu...uateScheme.pdf
There is a range of schemes for investors and entrepreneurs. See http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en...n_ireland.html. Most have a high capital investment requirement ranging from 300,000 euro to 2 million euro. For a really innovative project, an entrepreneur visa with 75,000 euro input may be possible.
http://www.inis.gov.ie/en/INIS/Gradu...uateScheme.pdf
There is a range of schemes for investors and entrepreneurs. See http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en...n_ireland.html. Most have a high capital investment requirement ranging from 300,000 euro to 2 million euro. For a really innovative project, an entrepreneur visa with 75,000 euro input may be possible.
Oct 16th, 2012, 12:26 AM
#33
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I just came back from my 20th trip to Ireland...my mother lives there. I have lots of friends with grown children and almost all of them have had to leave the country to get jobs...and, they have all had degrees. One is in China teaching English, many are in Austrialia and a few are in England. It is really sad they have to leave...however, they are all enjoying themselves also learning about their new countries. The ones in Australia have found a big Irish community there, though its very far from home.
Keep researching and don't let go of your dreams! You just might find a way!
Keep researching and don't let go of your dreams! You just might find a way!
Oct 16th, 2012, 03:09 AM
#34
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As someone who lives in Ireland my reaction to this is "are you crazy??". Even if you had a visa sorted out our current economic situation is dire, jobs are so hard to come by, the cost of living - including rent and utilities - is very high and things are unlikely to get better any time soon. Restaurants are going broke at a rate of knots all over the country, and there are plenty of recording studios already so you'd want to be able to offer something pretty special to succeed.
You'll get more information about getting a visa at the Department of Foreign affairs website (www.dfa.ie) or contact your local consulate (there a list at the DFA website). And yes, if you are a student you still need a work permit if you want to get a job. Alternatively - as someone else pointed out - if you have an Irish grandparent, you can qualify for dual citizenship - which would mean that you don't need a visa to work in any EU countries.
Still - I'm not getting the feeling that you have researched this at all thoroughly. I think you may have a bit of a rose-tinted view of the country. Try reading the online newspapers like irishtimes.ie or independent.ie to get an idea of the current state of the place. Also take a look at websites like boards.ie, thejournal.ie and broadsheet.ie to get an idea of what life is like here.
Finally, consider taking a holiday here before making any hare-brained decisions. Two weeks in winter could cure you of any notions of living here. If you change your mind after that, and are willing to jump through all the hoops necessary to get a visa and a job, then good luck!
You'll get more information about getting a visa at the Department of Foreign affairs website (www.dfa.ie) or contact your local consulate (there a list at the DFA website). And yes, if you are a student you still need a work permit if you want to get a job. Alternatively - as someone else pointed out - if you have an Irish grandparent, you can qualify for dual citizenship - which would mean that you don't need a visa to work in any EU countries.
Still - I'm not getting the feeling that you have researched this at all thoroughly. I think you may have a bit of a rose-tinted view of the country. Try reading the online newspapers like irishtimes.ie or independent.ie to get an idea of the current state of the place. Also take a look at websites like boards.ie, thejournal.ie and broadsheet.ie to get an idea of what life is like here.
Finally, consider taking a holiday here before making any hare-brained decisions. Two weeks in winter could cure you of any notions of living here. If you change your mind after that, and are willing to jump through all the hoops necessary to get a visa and a job, then good luck!
Oct 16th, 2012, 09:24 AM
#35
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Kyle -
Not understanding how the world works is going to be a major challenge to you - no matter what you want to do. And since you want to emigrate to Ireland - than knowing something about the overall topic of emigration would seem to be an obvious necessity. (If you did the rules for Ireland - similar to almost everyplace else - wouldn't be so surprising or confusing to you.)
People here are giving you all sorts of good information - which you really don't seem to want. There have been several suggestions about possible ways of living in Ireland and doing some short-term or part-time work to at least see what the situation is like.
But you just keep coming up with new schemes that avoid the realities.
If you are independently wealthy - you can probably find a way to buy a going business there and have some sort of residential visa. There are also visas for people that are retired and can prove substantial wealth, full health insurance etc - but don;t allow the entrants to work.
Really suggest that you contact the nearest Irish embassy or consulate and ask them for specifics on all your plans. Since none of us are immigration attorneys there is a limited amount we can do to help you.
Not understanding how the world works is going to be a major challenge to you - no matter what you want to do. And since you want to emigrate to Ireland - than knowing something about the overall topic of emigration would seem to be an obvious necessity. (If you did the rules for Ireland - similar to almost everyplace else - wouldn't be so surprising or confusing to you.)
People here are giving you all sorts of good information - which you really don't seem to want. There have been several suggestions about possible ways of living in Ireland and doing some short-term or part-time work to at least see what the situation is like.
But you just keep coming up with new schemes that avoid the realities.
If you are independently wealthy - you can probably find a way to buy a going business there and have some sort of residential visa. There are also visas for people that are retired and can prove substantial wealth, full health insurance etc - but don;t allow the entrants to work.
Really suggest that you contact the nearest Irish embassy or consulate and ask them for specifics on all your plans. Since none of us are immigration attorneys there is a limited amount we can do to help you.
Oct 16th, 2012, 09:41 AM
#36
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A new college graduate, with presumably no mortgage, kids with college tuition bills, or established job yet? Not quite sure how, under these circumstances, wanting to take a chance and experience life abroad qualifies as "hare brained?"
Kyle$, yes, I'm an American now living (legally!) in Europe. Under circumstances that make most traditional-minded people I know very uncomfortable. But as far as I know, you only live once...
Kyle$, yes, I'm an American now living (legally!) in Europe. Under circumstances that make most traditional-minded people I know very uncomfortable. But as far as I know, you only live once...
Oct 16th, 2012, 09:51 AM
#37
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Will you or your girl friend be qualified to teach? If so, you might look into International schools or DOD schools. No DOD schools in Ireland, but might be International schools. Just reaching here for ideas. Strongly rec that you find a way to spend three months in an apartment in Ireland (not traveling around on a vacation, but living an everyday kind of life) to see if you would really be happy there anyway.
Oct 18th, 2012, 02:09 AM
#38
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Sorry Nutella - it is "hare brained". I live here - the recession has hit the country very hard. While I admire Kyle's idealism, the fact is that someone with the very vague idea of "opening up a recording studio or restaurant" while having no knowledge of whether or not he even needs a visa hasn't a prayer of surviving.
If he has independent funding that will support himself and his girlfriend for a few months, then good luck to him. Otherwise he will find his Irish dream a bit of a nightmare.
If he has independent funding that will support himself and his girlfriend for a few months, then good luck to him. Otherwise he will find his Irish dream a bit of a nightmare.
