milan-slovenia-croatia
Sep 15th, 2019 | 05:39 AM
#1
Original Poster
Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 3
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milan-slovenia-croatia
Hello, folks!
This is my first post here, so apologies to all the pros if there's already something similar I missed.
My wife and me would be travelling Europe this November, 16 days, our flights are set - fly in to Milan, out from Milan too (Cheap tickets)
I know that it isn't enough time to really experience the culture or multiple cities but I think I'll take the chance on that. I've been trying to figure out how it would be financially feasible and possible to maximize our time there. We don’t wish to drive a car but prefer Trains\Buses.
So far, I've come up with the following Itinerary but I still need to plan out the details.
Milan-Venice-Bled-Zagreb-Split-Dubrovnik
I was thinking of getting a EUrail pass but I'm not sure if that is a financially a smart thing to do. Also, this itinerary may seem super extensive, but I'm really thinking that this can work.
Please, I really need some feedback. I would like to know if this is possible, and also any suggestions on how to make the itinerary better, more realistic, and also help with transportation within Europe. I'm pretty confident I would enjoy all of these places, but if you feel they are not suitable I would value your info/advice to make a better decision. I’ve been trying to lock down an itinerary but it seems rushed because we’ll have to get back to Milan.
I know it's a lot of maybes but that's why I'm posting in this forum. Most of our time would be in transit.
What is confirmed and can't be changed is the arrival and departure city.
Flight connections from Croatia (Split\Zagreb) to Milan are expensive (due to winters, we’ll be having luggage also).
This is my first post here, so apologies to all the pros if there's already something similar I missed.
My wife and me would be travelling Europe this November, 16 days, our flights are set - fly in to Milan, out from Milan too (Cheap tickets)
I know that it isn't enough time to really experience the culture or multiple cities but I think I'll take the chance on that. I've been trying to figure out how it would be financially feasible and possible to maximize our time there. We don’t wish to drive a car but prefer Trains\Buses.
So far, I've come up with the following Itinerary but I still need to plan out the details.
Milan-Venice-Bled-Zagreb-Split-Dubrovnik
I was thinking of getting a EUrail pass but I'm not sure if that is a financially a smart thing to do. Also, this itinerary may seem super extensive, but I'm really thinking that this can work.
Please, I really need some feedback. I would like to know if this is possible, and also any suggestions on how to make the itinerary better, more realistic, and also help with transportation within Europe. I'm pretty confident I would enjoy all of these places, but if you feel they are not suitable I would value your info/advice to make a better decision. I’ve been trying to lock down an itinerary but it seems rushed because we’ll have to get back to Milan.
I know it's a lot of maybes but that's why I'm posting in this forum. Most of our time would be in transit.
What is confirmed and can't be changed is the arrival and departure city.
Flight connections from Croatia (Split\Zagreb) to Milan are expensive (due to winters, we’ll be having luggage also).
Sep 15th, 2019 | 06:01 AM
#2
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 49,560
Likes: 0
16 days and 6 destinations? Even if the 16 doesn't include your arrival and departure days, nope, doesn't work. You've got the distinct disadvantage of traveling when it's pretty much winter and days are short.
A Eurrail pass is probably not worth it, but it's up to you to do the arithmetic to figure it out.
You would have benefited from open-jaw tickets, but it seems it's too late for that now.
<<I'm really thinking that this can work.>> And I'm really thinking it can't.
<<Most of our time would be in transit.>> And this is a good thing? The worst parts of traveling for me involve being in transit, though I do enjoy a great train ride.
A Eurrail pass is probably not worth it, but it's up to you to do the arithmetic to figure it out.
You would have benefited from open-jaw tickets, but it seems it's too late for that now.
<<I'm really thinking that this can work.>> And I'm really thinking it can't.
<<Most of our time would be in transit.>> And this is a good thing? The worst parts of traveling for me involve being in transit, though I do enjoy a great train ride.
Sep 15th, 2019 | 07:18 AM
#3
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 30,832
Likes: 4
TRansit with added hotels...
I'd draw a line from say Milan to Trieste. Look along the path and a bit further north and see how many great cities you pass through. Much as I love Bled (worth 10 minutes for the town and a lifetime for the mountains) I think you are fitting two much in.
Just look at the Po valley and list the old stuff you can see, the art, the churches, the history.
I'd draw a line from say Milan to Trieste. Look along the path and a bit further north and see how many great cities you pass through. Much as I love Bled (worth 10 minutes for the town and a lifetime for the mountains) I think you are fitting two much in.
Just look at the Po valley and list the old stuff you can see, the art, the churches, the history.
Sep 15th, 2019 | 07:32 AM
#4
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 26,533
Likes: 4
Another "victim" of a cheap airfare... The majority of your itinerary is outside of Italy, and Milan is pretty far west. Dubrovnik is 700+ miles from Milan, and you have to return to Milan to fly home. Other than flying, I don't know of an easy or fast way to travel between Venice (or Milan) and Dubrovnik. So, your savings on the Milan fare will disappear quickly, and you'll lose time getting from point to point.
Do some searches on this rail website for comprehensive European timetables.
https://reiseauskunft.bahn.de//bin/query2.exe/en
Depending on how late in November this trip is, I'm not sure I'd count on good sightseeing weather in Bled and possibly Split. I'd look at historical records and try to find some online commentary about visiting at that time of year. Sunset will be at about 4:30 p.m. in some of your destinations.
Do some searches on this rail website for comprehensive European timetables.
https://reiseauskunft.bahn.de//bin/query2.exe/en
Depending on how late in November this trip is, I'm not sure I'd count on good sightseeing weather in Bled and possibly Split. I'd look at historical records and try to find some online commentary about visiting at that time of year. Sunset will be at about 4:30 p.m. in some of your destinations.
Sep 15th, 2019 | 07:47 AM
#5
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 44,652
Likes: 3
First of all, you need to decide, NOW, what the most important places to see actually are. Can you skip Venice, for example, or one/ANY of the others? Look at www.skyscanner.com for the possibility of budget flights, particularly out of Milan and particularly on Croatia Airlines. You might save enough TIME over taking a train somewhere (if you can even get one). Passes become more cost effective the more you use them. Because of the places you are going cheap flights may or may not be a viable option.
And, please, don't be too hard on yourself because you chose a cheap flight in and out of Milan.
And, please, don't be too hard on yourself because you chose a cheap flight in and out of Milan.
Sep 15th, 2019 | 11:00 AM
#6
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 841
Likes: 0
Hello,
First of all a rail pass would be a waste of money for this trip. It'll be cheaper to buy point to point tickets.
If your flight to Milan arrives before 5pm I'd take a train straight to Venice. About 4 hours and 40 euros.
https://www.seat61.com/Italy-trains.htm
Venice to Bled: Take train to Gorizia, walk/bus/taxi to Slovenian side of the town Nova Gorica, train to Bled Jezero station, explained in detail:
https://www.seat61.com/trains-and-ro...d-by-train.htm
https://rail.cc/en/blog/travel-lake-bled-train
https://rail.cc/en/blog/italy-slovenia-train
Bled to Zagreb: Take a bus to Ljubljana and train to Zagreb. Bus takes about 1 hour, train 2 hours, worth to check out Ljubljana for a couple of hours between bus and train
https://www.seat61.com/international...greb-Ljubljana
Zagreb - Dubrovnik: Take a short flight to save time(Croatia Airlines) or take a bus(10 hours not recommended) or take a night train from Zagreb to Split and next morning bus to Dubrovnik(about 4 hours)
www.buscroatia.com
Dubrovnik - Split by bus, as above
Split - Ancona ferry, In November sails only on Sundays and Wednesday so that has to be the 20th November for you.(You mentioend in your ThornTree post that you arrive to Milan on the 7th)
www.jadrolinija.hr
Ancona - Milano, 3-4 hours by train
First of all a rail pass would be a waste of money for this trip. It'll be cheaper to buy point to point tickets.
If your flight to Milan arrives before 5pm I'd take a train straight to Venice. About 4 hours and 40 euros.
https://www.seat61.com/Italy-trains.htm
Venice to Bled: Take train to Gorizia, walk/bus/taxi to Slovenian side of the town Nova Gorica, train to Bled Jezero station, explained in detail:
https://www.seat61.com/trains-and-ro...d-by-train.htm
https://rail.cc/en/blog/travel-lake-bled-train
https://rail.cc/en/blog/italy-slovenia-train
Bled to Zagreb: Take a bus to Ljubljana and train to Zagreb. Bus takes about 1 hour, train 2 hours, worth to check out Ljubljana for a couple of hours between bus and train
https://www.seat61.com/international...greb-Ljubljana
Zagreb - Dubrovnik: Take a short flight to save time(Croatia Airlines) or take a bus(10 hours not recommended) or take a night train from Zagreb to Split and next morning bus to Dubrovnik(about 4 hours)
www.buscroatia.com
Dubrovnik - Split by bus, as above
Split - Ancona ferry, In November sails only on Sundays and Wednesday so that has to be the 20th November for you.(You mentioend in your ThornTree post that you arrive to Milan on the 7th)
www.jadrolinija.hr
Ancona - Milano, 3-4 hours by train
Last edited by BDKR; Sep 15th, 2019 at 11:30 AM.
Sep 15th, 2019 | 11:16 AM
#7
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 841
Likes: 0
Alternative ending of itinerary:
Zagreb - Split, buy bus, train or night train. Night train saves time and a hotel in Zagreb, but missing the scenery. Bus is frequent and fast. Daytime train slow, but cheap and has better scenery than the bus, not to mention it's more comfortable.
https://rail.cc/en/blog/zagreb-split-night-train
https://www.seat61.com/international...m#Zagreb-Split
Split - Dubrovnik by bus
Dubrovnik - Rome flight on the 19th November by Vueling airline, cheapest ticket(without luggage fee) sell currently for 35 euros
https://www.vueling.com/es
Rome - Milan by train 3-4 hours
Zagreb - Split, buy bus, train or night train. Night train saves time and a hotel in Zagreb, but missing the scenery. Bus is frequent and fast. Daytime train slow, but cheap and has better scenery than the bus, not to mention it's more comfortable.
https://rail.cc/en/blog/zagreb-split-night-train
https://www.seat61.com/international...m#Zagreb-Split
Split - Dubrovnik by bus
Dubrovnik - Rome flight on the 19th November by Vueling airline, cheapest ticket(without luggage fee) sell currently for 35 euros
https://www.vueling.com/es
Rome - Milan by train 3-4 hours
Last edited by BDKR; Sep 15th, 2019 at 11:29 AM.
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Sep 15th, 2019 | 01:40 PM
#8
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 2,283
Likes: 0
I would check your journey times before setting this itinerary in stone, as some of them will be significant. For my money, you are covering too much ground in the time available, skipping past so many beautiful places in order to visit the most famous places in each country. If Milan is simply a port of entry, then I too would head straight to Venice on arrival. But there's an enormous amount to see just between Milan and, say, Trieste or Bled, so that would be heaps on it's own.
Sep 17th, 2019 | 01:58 AM
#9
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 9,571
Likes: 0
ONLINE
15 minutes agoAs above. It's feasible by train up to Split, but for many legs, buses may be more convenient.
Trains:
Milan MXP airport - Milano Centrale
Milano Centrale - Venezia SL
Veezia SL - Gorizia Centrale (new railway station of Gorizia)
Nova Gorica (old railway station of Gorizia) - Bled Jezero (Lake Bled)
Lesce Bled - Zagreb
Zagreb - Split
Split - Dubrovnik is best done by bus.There are no longer holiday flights between Dubrovnik and Milan etc. in winter.
Check the overnight ferry from Dubrovnik to Bari and the connecting train to Milan (MXP ar every Monday at 20.46)
resp the overnight ferrry from Split to Ancona and the connecting train to Milan (MXP ar every Monday and Thursday at 13.46) or take thedaily bus from Dubrovnik to Split - Rijeka - Trieste and the train from there to Milan. Alitalia has some affordable lfights from Split via Rome to Milan.
Trains:
Milan MXP airport - Milano Centrale
Milano Centrale - Venezia SL
Veezia SL - Gorizia Centrale (new railway station of Gorizia)
Nova Gorica (old railway station of Gorizia) - Bled Jezero (Lake Bled)
Lesce Bled - Zagreb
Zagreb - Split
Split - Dubrovnik is best done by bus.There are no longer holiday flights between Dubrovnik and Milan etc. in winter.
Check the overnight ferry from Dubrovnik to Bari and the connecting train to Milan (MXP ar every Monday at 20.46)
resp the overnight ferrry from Split to Ancona and the connecting train to Milan (MXP ar every Monday and Thursday at 13.46) or take thedaily bus from Dubrovnik to Split - Rijeka - Trieste and the train from there to Milan. Alitalia has some affordable lfights from Split via Rome to Milan.
Sep 18th, 2019 | 01:16 AM
#10
Original Poster
Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 3
Likes: 0
Thankyou for apprehending the itinerary so quickly.
You're a skilled expert BDKR.
Please let me know wether I should opt for Dubrovnik-Rome flight or ferry from Dubrovnik-Bari.
Because looking at the weather conditions might turn-out, would ferry be feasible?
Do you have any idea about service apartments like BoardingHouse in Germany?
BoardingHouses were much cheaper than AirBNB in Germany.
regards
Many Thanks!!
You're a skilled expert BDKR.
Please let me know wether I should opt for Dubrovnik-Rome flight or ferry from Dubrovnik-Bari.
Because looking at the weather conditions might turn-out, would ferry be feasible?
Do you have any idea about service apartments like BoardingHouse in Germany?
BoardingHouses were much cheaper than AirBNB in Germany.
regards
Many Thanks!!
Sep 18th, 2019 | 03:59 AM
#12
Joined: Jul 2019
Posts: 96
Likes: 0
Will you consider the Istrian peninsula instead of Dalmatia?
That should save time in getting back to italy. There is a high speed ferry between Venice and Rijeka/or another istrian city.
Northern italy has great high speed rail infrastructure. There is nothing to worry about transport from milan to venice. Compare the price of trenitalia with Italo.
Don't think you need a rail pass in Slovenia and Croatia. Slovenia one way fare is cheap. Croatia rail network is still up and coming.
That should save time in getting back to italy. There is a high speed ferry between Venice and Rijeka/or another istrian city.
Northern italy has great high speed rail infrastructure. There is nothing to worry about transport from milan to venice. Compare the price of trenitalia with Italo.
Don't think you need a rail pass in Slovenia and Croatia. Slovenia one way fare is cheap. Croatia rail network is still up and coming.
Sep 18th, 2019 | 07:34 AM
#13
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 7,067
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I'm pretty sure the ferry from Venice to Croatia stops running in October.
I really think trying to go all the way to Dubrovnik in your time frame will result in not seeing much of anything. Also, from Split south it's all about the coast, scenery, etc. which could be pretty bad in cloudy/rainy weather which is likely in November. Also Easyjet, which has really cheap flights from both Split and Dubrovnik back to Italy stops in October also. There's a reason - southern Croatia not a great destination that far out of season.
Lake Bled is gorgeous, but again, not so much in the rain. I would go instead to Ljubljana for a few days - it's gorgeous and you can do a day trip to Bled and if you are there for several days you can pick the best weather day for Lake Bled.
If you really want to include some of Croatia consider Rovinj, Pula. Most of the hill towns in the Istrian peninsula need a car to get to, but those can be reached by bus. Not much to do there in the rain either but at least they are a lot closer than going all the way to Dubrovnik.
I would also really reconsider some of the absolutely wonderful places between Milano and Slovenia/Croatia. As someone suggested, in November you could have a great trip just doing an assortment of towns such as Padua, Verona, Vicenza, Bologna, Ferrara, Modena, Mantua.
I really think trying to go all the way to Dubrovnik in your time frame will result in not seeing much of anything. Also, from Split south it's all about the coast, scenery, etc. which could be pretty bad in cloudy/rainy weather which is likely in November. Also Easyjet, which has really cheap flights from both Split and Dubrovnik back to Italy stops in October also. There's a reason - southern Croatia not a great destination that far out of season.
Lake Bled is gorgeous, but again, not so much in the rain. I would go instead to Ljubljana for a few days - it's gorgeous and you can do a day trip to Bled and if you are there for several days you can pick the best weather day for Lake Bled.
If you really want to include some of Croatia consider Rovinj, Pula. Most of the hill towns in the Istrian peninsula need a car to get to, but those can be reached by bus. Not much to do there in the rain either but at least they are a lot closer than going all the way to Dubrovnik.
I would also really reconsider some of the absolutely wonderful places between Milano and Slovenia/Croatia. As someone suggested, in November you could have a great trip just doing an assortment of towns such as Padua, Verona, Vicenza, Bologna, Ferrara, Modena, Mantua.
Sep 18th, 2019 | 07:35 AM
#14
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 2,384
Likes: 0
Definitely consider Istria instead of going all the way to Dubrovnik. We had a great week there this spring even though rainy. We especially enjoyed Rovinj and Pula. But the inland areas were nice too. and Zagreb and Lublijana are both different and worthwhile. We got between the bigger cities by Flixbus. Very inexpensive and easy to book even on our iphone with the app. Had a rental car for Istria but there are at least some bus or train connections if you look into them. We went to Lake Bled on a day trip from Lublijana but I wouldn't go out of my way to just do that in the time you have at least not in November unless you have especially nice weather, but you could play that by ear and go only if you have a bright day. You could do 3 days Milan, 3 days Venice, 3 days Istria, 3 days Zagreb and 3 days Lublijana in your time. Maybe go straight to Venice as suggested on your arrival day and do Milan at the end so you are not in a rush or risk weather issues to get back for your return flight.
Sep 18th, 2019 | 08:05 PM
#16
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 25,763
Likes: 0
I must admit that I would find the trip you are proposing unpleasant -- too much time in transit, too little time to actually see your destinations, destinations that aren't necessarily at their best in November. And I don't think you can spend 3 days in each of 5 cities along your proposed route -- the travel distances are too great for that. But it's your trip, and maybe it will hold value for you.
You've already gotten some great feedback; I'll add just a few comments:
Please take the time to research each of your chosen destinations to decide what your priorities are and make sure you can actually include those priorities in the limited time you have.
Bled is beautiful, but I'm not sure what it would be like in November. Consider Ljubljana instead, perhaps with just a day trip to Bled.
I love Zagreb, but would not consider it in the same league as the other places you are visiting. With so very, very little time, consider skipping it.
Split is, IMO, stunning, and there's a lot you can visit by day trips from that city.
As rialtogrl notes, Rovinj would not be a good destination in November. And Istria is hardly a substitute for other locations in Croatia -- Istria is much more Italian than anywhere else in that country. That doesn't mean it isn't worth seeing, just that -- depending on your interests -- it's not necessarily a good alternative.
Bottom line: If you are fully committed to this itinerary, you should do a LOT of research on your priorities and your transportation options to make sure that you can at least see a bit of what makes you want to go there.
OR you could have a stunning experiences staying closer to Milan, and again, you would do well to do some serious research to identify your options.
Good luck!
You've already gotten some great feedback; I'll add just a few comments:
Please take the time to research each of your chosen destinations to decide what your priorities are and make sure you can actually include those priorities in the limited time you have.
Bled is beautiful, but I'm not sure what it would be like in November. Consider Ljubljana instead, perhaps with just a day trip to Bled.
I love Zagreb, but would not consider it in the same league as the other places you are visiting. With so very, very little time, consider skipping it.
Split is, IMO, stunning, and there's a lot you can visit by day trips from that city.
As rialtogrl notes, Rovinj would not be a good destination in November. And Istria is hardly a substitute for other locations in Croatia -- Istria is much more Italian than anywhere else in that country. That doesn't mean it isn't worth seeing, just that -- depending on your interests -- it's not necessarily a good alternative.
Bottom line: If you are fully committed to this itinerary, you should do a LOT of research on your priorities and your transportation options to make sure that you can at least see a bit of what makes you want to go there.
OR you could have a stunning experiences staying closer to Milan, and again, you would do well to do some serious research to identify your options.
Good luck!
