London Pubs with 12 and 15 yr old daughters
Feb 23rd, 2005, 11:33 AM
#43
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<<in the real world its WRONG to take your kids to a pub/bar at night!>>
Oh no, jeff, I am REALLY REALLY guilty. As I said, I've taken my kids all over Europe for the past 16 years and forced them to sit at cafés and sip a soft drink or juice while I sipped on a glass of wine!! AFTER dinner no less - can you imagine??? Even when they were babies in strollers!!! I was duped into thinking I WAS in the "real world." How could I ever have been so naive??? Do you think it's possible for me to atone for my sins?
Oh no, jeff, I am REALLY REALLY guilty. As I said, I've taken my kids all over Europe for the past 16 years and forced them to sit at cafés and sip a soft drink or juice while I sipped on a glass of wine!! AFTER dinner no less - can you imagine??? Even when they were babies in strollers!!! I was duped into thinking I WAS in the "real world." How could I ever have been so naive??? Do you think it's possible for me to atone for my sins?
Feb 23rd, 2005, 01:03 PM
#45
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Jeff-
Perhaps you don't understand what a pub is? Just a thought.
Please do clarify a few points for me if you would. Do you think drinking alcohol is bad? Or just drinking in front of children?
And my number one question- Do you have children?
Perhaps you don't understand what a pub is? Just a thought.
Please do clarify a few points for me if you would. Do you think drinking alcohol is bad? Or just drinking in front of children?
And my number one question- Do you have children?
Feb 23rd, 2005, 01:15 PM
#47
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jeffwill4you - Perhaps I'm wrong, but based on a response you gave on a "How many times have you been to Europe" thread, I get the impression you've never actually been to London? Not to say you can't have an opinion even if so, but it'd be certainly interesting to know whether you'd actually even been inside a London pub?
Feb 23rd, 2005, 01:16 PM
#48
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well, I think the OP can get the point and judge by the atmosphere of the place.
YOu know, I don't see the real need to take a teen and preteen to a pub, either, but I've only eaten in them a couple times and the food was not even edible. Maybe some have better food, but that is not a reason to go there.
Surprisingly, I actually agree with jeff in general, although not all the specifics nor quite as much, and I don't have anything against alcohol nor drinking in front of children at dinner in restaurants or at home. A cafe is not a pub, a restaurant is not a pub, and dining at home and having wine with dinner is not a pub. A pub by definition is a place to go drink, that is the main purpose of it. Also, I think the key thing is that the OP did NOT want to do this for dinner, but because they wanted to go out drinking after dinner with the kids.
I have had some members in my family take young children to our local version of a pub/bar with them because they had to do something with them and didn't want to hire a sitter, and they wanted to drink (these places were no different than pubs in English, places that served both drinking at the bar and where a lot of people went mainly to drink, along with some booths for eating). This was not the greatest thing for the children in a lot of ways.
I do think some of the responses are different than the original requirements and making analogies to other kinds of places like restaurants/cafes that aren't the same as taking kids to pubs to go drinking with you after dinner. It's sort of mean in a way, I think -- to go someplace where the main purpose is to drink, and take kids who can't drink with you.
YOu know, I don't see the real need to take a teen and preteen to a pub, either, but I've only eaten in them a couple times and the food was not even edible. Maybe some have better food, but that is not a reason to go there.
Surprisingly, I actually agree with jeff in general, although not all the specifics nor quite as much, and I don't have anything against alcohol nor drinking in front of children at dinner in restaurants or at home. A cafe is not a pub, a restaurant is not a pub, and dining at home and having wine with dinner is not a pub. A pub by definition is a place to go drink, that is the main purpose of it. Also, I think the key thing is that the OP did NOT want to do this for dinner, but because they wanted to go out drinking after dinner with the kids.
I have had some members in my family take young children to our local version of a pub/bar with them because they had to do something with them and didn't want to hire a sitter, and they wanted to drink (these places were no different than pubs in English, places that served both drinking at the bar and where a lot of people went mainly to drink, along with some booths for eating). This was not the greatest thing for the children in a lot of ways.
I do think some of the responses are different than the original requirements and making analogies to other kinds of places like restaurants/cafes that aren't the same as taking kids to pubs to go drinking with you after dinner. It's sort of mean in a way, I think -- to go someplace where the main purpose is to drink, and take kids who can't drink with you.
Feb 23rd, 2005, 01:26 PM
#50
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To clarify. I do not think drinking alcohol is a bad thing, unless you're driving. I think drinking alcohol in front of your children gives them the wrong message. I think taking your children with you to a PUB for after dinner alcohol is just plane wrong.
I can't believe I am being called a troll, and an idiot, a Puritan, hysterical and other things because I think its wrong to go out drinking with your children ever if the establishment
does sell food! No, I don't have children, yet! When I do have kids they can count on me to never take with me when go out drinking.
I can't believe I am being called a troll, and an idiot, a Puritan, hysterical and other things because I think its wrong to go out drinking with your children ever if the establishment
does sell food! No, I don't have children, yet! When I do have kids they can count on me to never take with me when go out drinking.
Feb 23rd, 2005, 01:34 PM
#51
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This was a legitimate question that has been sidetracked. Personally, I wouldn't take daughters to a pub after dinner, but then I don't like pubs as a whole and wouldn't even take myself to one if I had other options. I think many pubs get WAY too smokey in the evenings and also way too loud (at least the ones around here). There are more touristy pubs that would be fine but there are also pubs that attract the binge drinking crowd (who can get belligerently drunk very early in the evening!). Others are too sports oriented, with football (soccer) or other games on a tv turned up so loud you can barely hear the person next to you. I can't see a preteen and teenage daughter really enjoying that kind of atmosphere.
I think British pubs and French cafes are two very different animals (for which I am eternally grateful as I basically loathe the former and adore the latter).
If you would enjoy going to a pub after dinner, then ask for specific recs for quieter pubs that aren't smokey and that are more family oriented.
P.S. Many pubs have quiz nights. Although a lot of the questions are sports oriented, your family might enjoy participating.
I think British pubs and French cafes are two very different animals (for which I am eternally grateful as I basically loathe the former and adore the latter).
If you would enjoy going to a pub after dinner, then ask for specific recs for quieter pubs that aren't smokey and that are more family oriented.
P.S. Many pubs have quiz nights. Although a lot of the questions are sports oriented, your family might enjoy participating.
Feb 23rd, 2005, 01:48 PM
#53
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I did suggest a Quiz Night earlier, a social gathering that children would almost certainly enjoy. And it's in a pub. A public house for the public to go into. In some places the only community centre they have got.There are different types of pubs/inns/taverns/bars but nobody can be that wet behind the ears to think of taking kids to a Sports Bar or one with loud music, etc. There are however pubs in the U.K that look like your regular Applebees in the U.S or a restaurant/wine bar in France. Anyone with a grain of sense would know which pub would be appropriate for younger people.
Also I think trivia nights in Sports Bars may have a bias towards sport questions but I've never known that in a British pub. It's usually a fair mix of general knowledge.
Also I think trivia nights in Sports Bars may have a bias towards sport questions but I've never known that in a British pub. It's usually a fair mix of general knowledge.
Feb 23rd, 2005, 01:49 PM
#54
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Thank goodness this is not being discussed on the Paris Forum where children are encouraged to sip wine with water from an early age. France (I generalise) does not have an alcohol problem whereas over here in the UK our town centres on a Friday or Saturday night are filled with young men and women drunk as skunks because they have never been taught how to drink.
Only in the past few years have pubs opened their doors to children. Previously drinking was something to be done furtively, it was BAD. This is even worse in Scandinavia where booze is very expensive.
What I am trying to say is that if we can encourage our children to appreciate alcohol for what it is - something at its best that is to be enjoyed but respected we will have a lot less alcolhol related deaths.
And without kids areas, many country pubs simply could not survive.
So please let your kids see English pubs but make them aware of both the good and the harm of alcohol.
Only in the past few years have pubs opened their doors to children. Previously drinking was something to be done furtively, it was BAD. This is even worse in Scandinavia where booze is very expensive.
What I am trying to say is that if we can encourage our children to appreciate alcohol for what it is - something at its best that is to be enjoyed but respected we will have a lot less alcolhol related deaths.
And without kids areas, many country pubs simply could not survive.
So please let your kids see English pubs but make them aware of both the good and the harm of alcohol.
Feb 24th, 2005, 12:50 AM
#56
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What a ridiculously sweeping statement Australia. I dread to think what sort of places you hang out in. You'd think pubs were strip joints or something.
BTIlke said "so loud you can barely hear the person next to you. I can't see a preteen and teenage daughter really enjoying that kind of atmosphere."
Actually that's EXACTLY the kind of atmosphere I loved as teenagers and that my nieces love now! Louder and more crowded the better! The only difference being we wouldn't be seen dead in that kind of pub with our parents in tow LOL!
BTIlke said "so loud you can barely hear the person next to you. I can't see a preteen and teenage daughter really enjoying that kind of atmosphere."
Actually that's EXACTLY the kind of atmosphere I loved as teenagers and that my nieces love now! Louder and more crowded the better! The only difference being we wouldn't be seen dead in that kind of pub with our parents in tow LOL!
Feb 24th, 2005, 12:54 AM
#57
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>What a ridiculously sweeping statement Australia. I dread to think what sort of places you hang out in. You'd think pubs were strip joints or something.
I don't think so. English pubs are full of smoke and have terrible ventilation. There's a health risk posed to children. I wouldn't enter one for health reasons and I certainly wouldn't take my children to one.
>Actually that's EXACTLY the kind of atmosphere I loved as teenagers and that my nieces love now!
I take it there isn't much to do in England then.
Feb 24th, 2005, 01:15 AM
#58
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Kate, I think you need to go back and re-read my post. I didn't say the pubs were so loud because of great music and conversation, but because of TV turned on to some sporting event at top volume. Do teen-age girls really like standing around listening to ear-splittingly loud coverage of football (soccer) and rugby games? I sure didn't when I was a teenager!
Also, Henneth, don't be so defensive. Where I live, there are a few pubs that seem fairly normal in the early evening, then suddenly get jammed with chain smoking, hard drinking, shouting oiks. What you find in those pubs at 7 pm is completely different from what you find at 9 pm. At others, we could be eating a quiet roast dinner on Sunday when BAM, at 2 pm (or whatever), the bar staff suddenly blast on the TV for some sporting event (not advertised outside, I guess the locals know the schedule). These pubs don't have a Lost In Space style robot standing outside waving its arms: Warning, Warning, Danger, Danger. They look perfectly normal. Since you claim that differentiating between family oriented pubs and the others is child's play (even for tourists making their first visit to London from thousands of miles away), why don't you offer some *real* help here and provide a list of family-friendly pubs (names and addresses) in central London?
Also, Henneth, don't be so defensive. Where I live, there are a few pubs that seem fairly normal in the early evening, then suddenly get jammed with chain smoking, hard drinking, shouting oiks. What you find in those pubs at 7 pm is completely different from what you find at 9 pm. At others, we could be eating a quiet roast dinner on Sunday when BAM, at 2 pm (or whatever), the bar staff suddenly blast on the TV for some sporting event (not advertised outside, I guess the locals know the schedule). These pubs don't have a Lost In Space style robot standing outside waving its arms: Warning, Warning, Danger, Danger. They look perfectly normal. Since you claim that differentiating between family oriented pubs and the others is child's play (even for tourists making their first visit to London from thousands of miles away), why don't you offer some *real* help here and provide a list of family-friendly pubs (names and addresses) in central London?
Feb 24th, 2005, 01:36 AM
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Feb 24th, 2005, 01:41 AM
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Wow This seems to have rubbed a few people up wrong. I am of 2 minds. probably for selfish reasons.
1. There is not problem taking children to a cafe/pub/gastro pub/country pub etc during meal times or on a stop when driving long distances and pop in for a break and a coke for the kids etc. I don't think many London pubs would like to have kids or teens in them after 5pm as it is an after work and older crowd. To be honest iof I was in a pub in London or Dublin this is one place I don't want kids running around as I came for a drink and a chat with friends. There are a few pubs in Dublin that are in the suburbs and have carvery meals and people bring their kids in the daytime and some have play areas. Alsthough I am not a fan I have no problem with this unless you get hammered and drive home with the kids (Some I am sure do).
Teens are a different story. While I go to the pub to be with adults teens would probably only be allowed if it was early evening and food was served. In the country I think this may be different and more relaxed as it can be in rural areas of Ireland. Technically you cannot bring kids atfter 7pm in pubs in Ireland.
Cafes...I have no problem sitting down and having a drink while any child I am with has some juice etc. Wake up they don't even notice what you are drinking! How this could damage a child is beyone me. I have no problem with kids in Pubs/cafes as long as the parents are pissed off their head and the kids running around and its not late.
1. There is not problem taking children to a cafe/pub/gastro pub/country pub etc during meal times or on a stop when driving long distances and pop in for a break and a coke for the kids etc. I don't think many London pubs would like to have kids or teens in them after 5pm as it is an after work and older crowd. To be honest iof I was in a pub in London or Dublin this is one place I don't want kids running around as I came for a drink and a chat with friends. There are a few pubs in Dublin that are in the suburbs and have carvery meals and people bring their kids in the daytime and some have play areas. Alsthough I am not a fan I have no problem with this unless you get hammered and drive home with the kids (Some I am sure do).
Teens are a different story. While I go to the pub to be with adults teens would probably only be allowed if it was early evening and food was served. In the country I think this may be different and more relaxed as it can be in rural areas of Ireland. Technically you cannot bring kids atfter 7pm in pubs in Ireland.
Cafes...I have no problem sitting down and having a drink while any child I am with has some juice etc. Wake up they don't even notice what you are drinking! How this could damage a child is beyone me. I have no problem with kids in Pubs/cafes as long as the parents are pissed off their head and the kids running around and its not late.
