London-Amsterdam-Duisburg-Belguim-Reims-Paris-London
Jun 17th, 2009, 03:17 PM
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London-Amsterdam-Duisburg-Belguim-Reims-Paris-London
Looking for stops we don't want to miss!
Must be in Duisburg for a wedding on 8/08/09 Saturday. Taking train/ferry from London to Amsterdam and renting a car. Know we want to stop in Reims to visit Champagne caverns. Been there and want our kids to see it. Two kids (9 and 11 yrs old plus Mommy and Daddy).
Also...ideas on inexpensive family accommodations (hotels, B&B, other).
Thanks for your help! It's been 11 years since our last European vacation and that was without kids.
Must be in Duisburg for a wedding on 8/08/09 Saturday. Taking train/ferry from London to Amsterdam and renting a car. Know we want to stop in Reims to visit Champagne caverns. Been there and want our kids to see it. Two kids (9 and 11 yrs old plus Mommy and Daddy).
Also...ideas on inexpensive family accommodations (hotels, B&B, other).
Thanks for your help! It's been 11 years since our last European vacation and that was without kids.
Jun 17th, 2009, 05:03 PM
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Okay, let's do the math here. You will have 13 full days plus 2 half days at most; therefore 14 days total.
You have 6 destinations on your list; with one of them being an entire country.
Each time you move from one place to another, you lose half a day.
Therefore you will only have 2 days MAX at each destination. Is that something you would want with 2 kids in tow?
How would you feel if you have to travel:
Boston - Rhode Island - New York City - Philadelphia - Baltimore - Washington DC - Boston in 14 days?
You have 6 destinations on your list; with one of them being an entire country.
Each time you move from one place to another, you lose half a day.
Therefore you will only have 2 days MAX at each destination. Is that something you would want with 2 kids in tow?
How would you feel if you have to travel:
Boston - Rhode Island - New York City - Philadelphia - Baltimore - Washington DC - Boston in 14 days?
Jun 17th, 2009, 06:12 PM
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We've done a couple of European trips with our now 10, 8 and 2 year olds. You are moving around way too much.
Is the Duisburg you referenced in 'Germany', but you are spending no other time in Germany? Are there other events in Duisburg that you want to attend for the wedding?
Are you interested in seeing London at all? Or are you just planning on heading to Amsterdam?
If just planning on heading to Amsterdam here's a link to the info on the train/ferry option: http://www.seat61.com/Netherlands.htm. So now that you're in Amsterdam, your kids have spent two sleepless (less than normal) nights, 1 on the airplane, 1 on the ferry. They will be miserable at this point (mine are miserable after one sleepless night).
Reims is way out of the way if you're going to Germany. Correct? You're going to spend your entire time in the car.
Can I suggest the following:
If not interested in London -
- somehow get to Cologne (Koln) - much more efficient if you fly from London
- stay on the Rhine in Bachrach or St. Goar (cool castle in Bacharach) for 5 nights, get your kids adjusted to the time change and go to the wedding in Duisburg (within driving distance) - rent a car while you're there
- On 8/9 (after the wedding), head to Brugges by train (in Belgium) for 3 nights, by this time your kids will be acclimated to the time change
- On 8/12 take train to Paris for four nights, use one of your days to rent a car to go to Reims (if you really want to)
- On 8/16 take train back to London and stay o/n for 8/17 flight
Trust me, you want to let the kids get adjusted to the time change (takes 3-4 nights) before you start moving them around. Otherwise, you are "dragging" two kids through Europe.
You should really try to take advantage of the public transportation available in Europe, and not just plan on a 'road trip'. It will be much more pleasant, and they serve wine on the trains:=)
Is the Duisburg you referenced in 'Germany', but you are spending no other time in Germany? Are there other events in Duisburg that you want to attend for the wedding?
Are you interested in seeing London at all? Or are you just planning on heading to Amsterdam?
If just planning on heading to Amsterdam here's a link to the info on the train/ferry option: http://www.seat61.com/Netherlands.htm. So now that you're in Amsterdam, your kids have spent two sleepless (less than normal) nights, 1 on the airplane, 1 on the ferry. They will be miserable at this point (mine are miserable after one sleepless night).
Reims is way out of the way if you're going to Germany. Correct? You're going to spend your entire time in the car.
Can I suggest the following:
If not interested in London -
- somehow get to Cologne (Koln) - much more efficient if you fly from London
- stay on the Rhine in Bachrach or St. Goar (cool castle in Bacharach) for 5 nights, get your kids adjusted to the time change and go to the wedding in Duisburg (within driving distance) - rent a car while you're there
- On 8/9 (after the wedding), head to Brugges by train (in Belgium) for 3 nights, by this time your kids will be acclimated to the time change
- On 8/12 take train to Paris for four nights, use one of your days to rent a car to go to Reims (if you really want to)
- On 8/16 take train back to London and stay o/n for 8/17 flight
Trust me, you want to let the kids get adjusted to the time change (takes 3-4 nights) before you start moving them around. Otherwise, you are "dragging" two kids through Europe.
You should really try to take advantage of the public transportation available in Europe, and not just plan on a 'road trip'. It will be much more pleasant, and they serve wine on the trains:=)
Jun 17th, 2009, 09:26 PM
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Welcome to the board.
One of its greatest drawbacks is the prevalence of geographically ill-informed tyrants, convinced the only way to travel in Europe is to spend a year in some dull theme park like Paris, spending your entire time on its buses.
The car journey you're planning takes - in total - about a day. Hundreds of retail field managers do it more or less routinely: indeed, it used to be one of my standard inspection routes.
To claim "public transportation" (they mean public transport, but can't speak English) "will be much more pleasant" is both dunderheaded and narrow-minded: in this densely-populated part of Europe, using public transport for touring restricts you severely.
So a couple of important points:
1. You'll be severely penalised for hiring a car in country A and leaving it in country B. You need to get to somewhere handy for hiring a car and leave the car somewhere handy for completing the journey by train or plane. That almost certainly means Brussels in both cases. If you definitely want to end in Paris, a good alternative is starting with the train from London to Lille, hiring the car there, then leaving it in Lille, Rheims or Paris. The ONLY three places on or near your route with a really fast train link to London are Lille, Brussels and Paris.
2. Though the journey you're planning is short, the Dutch and German bits are on some of the most congested motorways in Europe outside Britain and Italy. So allow a LOT longer than the time estimates on viamichelin.com (at least twice and during the day on weekdays, up to three times)
3. You're skirting an area far more densely packed with things to see than most people realise. Personally I wouldn't waste time hoping there might be some bright ideas from people on the web I know nothing about - except, it appears, that they're determined to make you travel the way they do. I'd get decent guide books to Holland, Belgium and NW Germany and read them. Some of us get really excited driving past the Cleves in Anne of Cleves, and others get more excited still at Arnhem's recent military history. But still others are unmoved by them - while (to me astonishingly) getting excited at Maastricht's pretty ho-hum picturesque bits. Don't miss Aachen cathedral - and you're close enought to Cologne to see its cathedral too (great Roman museum, BTW). But do your own research: this site is best for telling you how to see the places you've chosen, and can be very limited in suggestions it throws up if you rely on it for ideas.
4. If Amsterdam's important, do think twice about how to get there. Ferry/train doesn't have to be overnight (see all options at www.seat61.com/Netherlands.htm#Amsterdam ► London), and surface travel can be cheapish. But it's not scenic, and it's a great deal slower (and usually pricier) than flying.
One of its greatest drawbacks is the prevalence of geographically ill-informed tyrants, convinced the only way to travel in Europe is to spend a year in some dull theme park like Paris, spending your entire time on its buses.
The car journey you're planning takes - in total - about a day. Hundreds of retail field managers do it more or less routinely: indeed, it used to be one of my standard inspection routes.
To claim "public transportation" (they mean public transport, but can't speak English) "will be much more pleasant" is both dunderheaded and narrow-minded: in this densely-populated part of Europe, using public transport for touring restricts you severely.
So a couple of important points:
1. You'll be severely penalised for hiring a car in country A and leaving it in country B. You need to get to somewhere handy for hiring a car and leave the car somewhere handy for completing the journey by train or plane. That almost certainly means Brussels in both cases. If you definitely want to end in Paris, a good alternative is starting with the train from London to Lille, hiring the car there, then leaving it in Lille, Rheims or Paris. The ONLY three places on or near your route with a really fast train link to London are Lille, Brussels and Paris.
2. Though the journey you're planning is short, the Dutch and German bits are on some of the most congested motorways in Europe outside Britain and Italy. So allow a LOT longer than the time estimates on viamichelin.com (at least twice and during the day on weekdays, up to three times)
3. You're skirting an area far more densely packed with things to see than most people realise. Personally I wouldn't waste time hoping there might be some bright ideas from people on the web I know nothing about - except, it appears, that they're determined to make you travel the way they do. I'd get decent guide books to Holland, Belgium and NW Germany and read them. Some of us get really excited driving past the Cleves in Anne of Cleves, and others get more excited still at Arnhem's recent military history. But still others are unmoved by them - while (to me astonishingly) getting excited at Maastricht's pretty ho-hum picturesque bits. Don't miss Aachen cathedral - and you're close enought to Cologne to see its cathedral too (great Roman museum, BTW). But do your own research: this site is best for telling you how to see the places you've chosen, and can be very limited in suggestions it throws up if you rely on it for ideas.
4. If Amsterdam's important, do think twice about how to get there. Ferry/train doesn't have to be overnight (see all options at www.seat61.com/Netherlands.htm#Amsterdam ► London), and surface travel can be cheapish. But it's not scenic, and it's a great deal slower (and usually pricier) than flying.
Jun 18th, 2009, 01:07 AM
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Flanner makes some excellent points.
If you are spending all your time on mainland Europe why are you flying into London?
Maybe you could add an onward (and return)flight to Amsterdam or Brussels to you trip if you haven't already booked the flights. Then hire the car at that airport. I think hiring a car is a great idea, especially with a wedding to go to - getting to that by public transport would be a nightmare. A car will give you much more freedom to see things without the tyranny of timetables. But hiring a car in the Netherlands and leaving it in France is an expensive option, always assuming you find a car hire company prepared to do it.
Jetlag flying west to east can be a killer, especially for children as you can't keep them awake so easily. You have to allow for that in your planning or you will all be miserable.
Whilst in Duisberg try to make time to visit the Nord landscape Park. It is a truly amazing place, which both you and your children will enjoy, and is something very different to the usual tourist sites. http://www.landschaftspark.de/en/home/index.php
I personally think you should concentrate on NW Germany with maybe a touch of the Netherlands thrown in, depending on your interests I can suggest places to visit in NL for you and your children.
If you are spending all your time on mainland Europe why are you flying into London?
Maybe you could add an onward (and return)flight to Amsterdam or Brussels to you trip if you haven't already booked the flights. Then hire the car at that airport. I think hiring a car is a great idea, especially with a wedding to go to - getting to that by public transport would be a nightmare. A car will give you much more freedom to see things without the tyranny of timetables. But hiring a car in the Netherlands and leaving it in France is an expensive option, always assuming you find a car hire company prepared to do it.
Jetlag flying west to east can be a killer, especially for children as you can't keep them awake so easily. You have to allow for that in your planning or you will all be miserable.
Whilst in Duisberg try to make time to visit the Nord landscape Park. It is a truly amazing place, which both you and your children will enjoy, and is something very different to the usual tourist sites. http://www.landschaftspark.de/en/home/index.php
I personally think you should concentrate on NW Germany with maybe a touch of the Netherlands thrown in, depending on your interests I can suggest places to visit in NL for you and your children.
Jun 18th, 2009, 11:22 AM
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Flying into London because we could get 4 tickets together, on short notice, and on mileage points! Didn't think we were going to make the trip but since we scored those we are. Wow! I so very much appreciate all of the information. Hubby and I were in Europe 12 years ago (pre-children) and did so much in 3 weeks. Yes, I tend to try and do too much; our children are soon going to know about our trip and be helpful in the planning.
Now, I must print and digest all of the replies. Hubby and I are re-thinking our idea of a European Vacation with kids. We have to be in Duisburg for a wedding so that's a given. Bought lots of books/maps last night and started devouring them! Everyone's ideas, thoughts and opinions are much appreciated! Thank you!
Now, I must print and digest all of the replies. Hubby and I are re-thinking our idea of a European Vacation with kids. We have to be in Duisburg for a wedding so that's a given. Bought lots of books/maps last night and started devouring them! Everyone's ideas, thoughts and opinions are much appreciated! Thank you!
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