I am planning our first trip to Europe -- (7 - 10 days) My first thought was Italy, but I've heard that the crowds are awful in the summertime (which is when we have to go). We love beautiful scenery & mountains, so thought about Switzerland and Austria--but are the crowds just as bad there? Any other suggestions. I have finally gotten my husband to agree on a european trip, so I want it to be "grand" and unforgettable. London or Paris are not options.

There are many places you can go in Italy in summer that are not crowded. Do a google search for Urbino, for instance, and see if you like the pictures. The surrounding hills of Montefeltro are marvelous, the food is great and the climate is quite nice there too. Piemonte is not heavily touristed, and neither are the hilltowns of Liguria between Piemonte and the sea. The food and wine are considered among the greatest in Italy.

You may as well accept the fact that there is a good reason people flock to certain places.

You say you have "heard" the crowds are "awful" and I agree that some places are more crowded/popular than others.

Switzerland can be just as busy/crowded depending on where in that country you are.

The question seems to be are you going to go somewhere that is actually a second choice on your list just to avoid the possible throngs?

Hi cathee,

I've visited Switzerland about 14 times in the past 11 years, so I hope I can help with your question.

Basically, the crowds come to the Swiss Alps in hordes in August. If you can come in late June to mid July, you shouldn't have to contend with those mobs. Also, you can avoid crowds by avoiding those destinations. Because Grindelwald allows cars, the tourist busses unload there and the streets do get mobbed in Aug. However, nearby Wengen, which is car-free, is relatively deserted.

So, please don't let the idea of crowds deter you -- you can manage your trip to keep a lower and quieter profile.

Hope this helps!

s

Since I do not know that much about Italy, yes, I've traveled to Italy, but I do not know this area and can not give the tremendously excellent answers that I normally give about travels in Switzerland.

There are many areas that can be crowded in Switzerland. Most of the Swiss posters on Fodors wil tell you that the Jungfrau, Lucern and Zermatt regions can be crowded in the summer;however, there are areas you can get to that are less crowded. That valley just on the other side of Kandersteg is not as crowded. I sometimes venture over to the Loenchental<SP?> valley just on the other side of Kandersteg. Kandersteg itself is not all of that crowded, particularlly after the sun goes down. All of the tourists go back to Thun and Jungfrau area.

Saas Fee, which once was a private out of the way area, but now Americans are starting to vist with greater frenquency than was the case 10 years ago when I first started going there.

My first trip to Saas fee, I counted 4 Americans, I myself included.

Saas Fee seems to be popular among German tourists though. I have always gotten along quite well with the Germans. So the area is popular, but in my opinion not nearly as crowded as Jungfrau region.

So there you have it.

Still though, if you are in Switzerland in July, you owe it to yourself to see the Jungfrau area. Yes, the trains wil be packed. The gondolas and mountain trains will be crammed with people, but you would certainly be rewarded with some great scenes and memories.

I have traveled in Switzerland in July and August (i go to the Lac Leman towns outside Geneva), and twice included Venice by train. I did not find the 'crowds' overwhelming.

A LOT depends on what you mean by "summer". Many Americans tend to think of anything between Memorial Day and Labor Day as "summer". But European schools run longer than most American schools. Basicaly their summer holiday is mid July til about the first week in Sept. That's why late July and especially August are soooo crowded lots of places.

If you can travel in June or early July you really don't run into horrible crowds almost anywhere.

If you love scenery and mountains but not crowds, how about Scandinavia - maybe combined with Germany (eg Berlin) or Russia (eg St Petersburg)?

In Paris, June is the month with the most Americans, for some reason. That isn't even considered to be summer by the French. Meanwhile, August is the rock bottom low season for hotel rooms, contrary to what a lot of people think.
The last two years, I have taken trips to both the French & Swiss Alps and the French & Spanish Pyrénées in August and have had absolutely no problems at all with crowds. One reason is that the weather was abominably rainy and cold in August in those areas in both 2005 & 2006.
In terms of my own mountain interests, I am leaning towards Slovenia for my next mountain trip. It enters the eurozone on January 1st, 2007 and is still reasonably priced.

For people who "love beautiful scenery and mountains," but not crowds, the Pyrenees are a fantastic summer destination, blissfully uncrowded and pristine, with food on both sides of the border that surpasses Switzerland's. It also provides marvelous opportunities to dip down onto the coast at least once despite the crowds -- San Sebastian would be my top pick.

Hi C,

>...I've heard that the crowds are awful in the summertime (which is when we have to go).<

For good reason. That is when everyone else has to go.

>I want it to be "grand" and unforgettable. London or Paris are not options. <

That leaves Rome.

Are there reasons why London and Paris are not options?

I have been to London already (loved it) and my husband doesn't want to go to Paris. What would Rome and Venice be like the end of June? I always thought their crowded summer was like ours --mid June - end of August.

Hi C,

>I have been to London already (loved it) and my husband doesn't want to go to Paris.<

Well, he should have his head examined.

Why not take him to London and show him why you loved it.

>I always thought their crowded summer was like ours --mid June - end of August. <

August is the big time for Europeans to go on vacation.

If you can go just after Memorial Day, you will find fewer European tourists.

If by "the end of June" you mean after school lets out in America, you'll find a lot of tourists in Venice and Rome, and Rome is quite likely to be hot, and Venice too. You will not see "beautiful scenery and mountains" in either place (although rome has seven famous hills).

But there are ways to compensate for crowds and heat. In Roma, if you can afford it, get a place with air conditioning (or even a pool). In Venezia, make sure you stay well outside the San Marco and the Rialto area. Do a lot of your touristing in the early mornign and then evening, avoiding both crowds and heat. Spend your afternoons on boat rides to the islands or the Lido, or lazing in a cafe.

Go where you want to go, and work out a strategy to not be part of the tourist stampede.

In Italy, I vote for Liguria. Summer is lovely; warm but you can bathe, boat and sightsee. Incredible food and scenery. Some nice mountain scenery in the area, Piemonte, and very northern Tuscany, which is never overly touristed.

I now have many options to consider and I thank you for all of them. Since my husband and I are only a couple of years away from retiring, I think I'll might save Italy for the fall and go for another European option this summer. Any more suggestions would be much appreciated.

Good advice as always Janis. Out of interest, when are Memorial Day and Labor Day ?

cathee, I always go on holiday in June, and September when I can manage it, in order to avoid the school holidays. The real tourist hotspots like St Mark's Square in Venice will always be crowded but you don't have to walk far to be in a very quiet area, anywhere.

You don't seem to tell us much about what sort of place(s) you really really want to visit, though - would your first choice be cities, countryside or some of both ? You mention beautiful scenery & mountains but also mention cities albeit only ones you don't want to visit.

If you really want to go to Italy, haven't been before and want a mix of city & scenery, the obvious choice would be something like Rome OR Venice and the Amalfi Coast, which isn't that crowded in June. You can fly quite cheaply between Venice and Naples - I just booked with Alitalia for next June for £60pp. 4 days in Venice & 5 on the Amalfi Coast would be nice. Can you get an open jaw ticket, e.g. fly into Venice & out of Naples ?

I'd go to Switzerland.

caroline_edinburgh: Sorry about the "USA-centric" answer

Memorial Day is the last Monday in May (corresponds w/ the UK May Bank Holiday). And Labor Day is the first Monday in Sept. Most American schools are out all or most of June. Some schools do resume before Labor Day, but it is that last big US Holiday weekend before Fall so is sort the last gasp of summer vacation.

We love nature and beautiful scenery, hiking, rafting, etc. but also history and sightseeing. We have seen plenty of mountains and water in the U.S. and Canada. What I know Europe will add is the history. If we went to Switzerland and saved Italy for another time, might we be disappointed, as we have been all over the U.S. and Canadian Rockies, which are breathtaking or would there plenty else to see and do? I assume the Swiss Alps will overwhelm anything we've seen before?? Another question I have is, if we could go the last week in June, would be pretty much miss much of the overcrowding? Thanks, again for all of your great advise.