Padraig

irishface, do please bear in mind that Herself and I are idiosyncratic travellers. What we do, and what we enjoy, might be far removed from the tastes of others.

Last time we were in Fontevraud, we happened on a tea-shop that had recently been opened by an English couple. We were the only customers at the time, and they were happy to converse with us. They had burnt all their boats in the sense that if the business failed they would have nothing left. And we feared for them, because their business plan seemed to be "hope for the best, and it might happen". So, of course, we also hoped for the best for them, and today we went to see if they were succeeding. All I can tell you is that they seem to have survived: the tea-shop is still there, looking fine, but it was closed today.

Palenque

Yup seems swell to me

This is an area i know extremely well, having biked and motored around it dozens of times. You plan seems brilliant as for the bases.

Here are some lesser visited places i enjoyed

Loches to me is a real sleeper- the town is so so but the old castle - not a chateau but a proper medieval castle built not for pleasure but defense is neat - check out the infamous Hanging Cages of Louis XIV (? some Looie) where some of his enemies literally hung out for years -not even being able to stand up

From Chinon you can take a vintage steam train to Richelieu - a very unusal town - built i think by Cardinal Richelieu and all in rectangular streets and rectangular wall that surrounds it all - inside a nice old quiet town.

Near Amboise check out the Pagoda de (du) (de la) Chanteloup -a relic of times during the late 1700s when all things Chinoiserie were in fashion -so the owner of the lavish chateau that once graced this now bucolic area built a tall slender pagoda in the Chinese style- it remains and you can climb it. All that remains of the former chateau are some footings - the owner got behind in taxes and the government tore the place down and sold off its building stones, etc - not sure of exact details but that is the gist of it.

Azay-le-Rideau, though certainly on the beaten path is not nearly as mobbed as Chenonceau or Chambord, the two acclaimed 'best' chateaus -but Azay is my favorite - at least when seen on the outside. In the sleepy town there are wine houses with tasting

Bourgueil, near Chjinon is the largest wine-producing area - at least in terms of miles of vineyards and several wine houses.

Vouvray - quite close to Amboise is sweet too - many ornate wine houses offering tastings of the prestigious Vouvray bubbly wine that is stored for aging in caves here. (When the TGV train tunnel was blasted thru the hills right near town local vintners raised hell so SNCF took special precaustions to cushion the vibrations.

Amboise-check out the troglodyte houses built into the limestone ridge just south of the chateau and trek over the island opposite the chateau for a great view of its facade, which can only be really appreciated from a distance like this. And also from the island you can walk down, behind the Auberge de Jeunesse, to the sandy river bed -from here it appears really wild - sauvage as locals call it - miles of sands with, in summer, rivulets of water trickling thru it- hardto beleive the Loire here was once navigable with big steam ships but the old port area opposite the parish church in Amboise testified to that face. The Loire is about the only long river in France that is not navigable and which does not look like a canal. And beware if in the Loire of the dread Silieux (sp?) - a huge huge fish that sometimes is spotted.

If into biking there is a nice bike ride from Amboise thru a large forest to Chenonceaux and Chenonceau, the castle - why the town and castle are not spelt the same beats me.

When driving stick to the D or departmental roads on the Michelin map - any N road, such as the one on the south side of the Loire can be really busy and full of obnoxious lorries.

I always wanted to take in the Soup des Chiens at Cheverny but never was convenient -the feeding of the hunting dogs at the chateau.

A neat thing about the Loire is that most of the older edifices are uniformly made of the cream-colored limestone that is found often in ridges on either side of the Loire

Padraig

Thanks, PalQ

Too late for the train from Chinon to Richelieu -- we move on to Amboise in the morning. I console myself with the thought that it might not run at this time of year if it is primarily for tourists.

The pagoda sounds like an interesting curiosity: I might send herself up, as I'm not good on heights.

I am told we are going to Chenonceau. Herself has some interest in various characters from history (Eleanor of Aquitaine gets remembered when we visit Chinon, and the Medici link to Chenonceau also registers with her).

We have already seen just about all of the better-known Loire chateaux, including Azay-le-Rideau (which I agree is a good visit). That's why chateau visits are not higher on the agenda. Much of the pleasure we are getting from this trip is just *being* in France, and feeling comfortable here.

The local stone (tuffeau) is appealing to the eye. It is easily worked, but weathers badly, so there is quite an industry in restoring buildings. Right now, here in Saumur, they are building a new entrance bridge to the chateau; there were also masons at work in Chinon on the building where we had lunch.

scrb

Is there any effort to restore the chateaux? Some looked good from a distance or maybe lit at night but when you got close, the facades were in rough shape. The interiors also could use work.

Forget which chateau but some featured highly manicured gardens, although flowers may not be in bloom yet.

alohatoall

I've read good things about the Auberge de Launay in le Haut Chantier (Limeray Amboise), across the river from Amboise (02.47.30.16.82). It's supposed to offer "fine country cuisine" including a 25€ dinner.

Palenque

Forget which chateau but some featured highly manicured gardens, although flowers may not be in bloom yet>

Could be Villandry, on the south side of the Loire quite close to Chinon - known for its terraced gardens

Chenonceau was during WWII i believe an entry to Vichy France and many refugees walked thru it as it bridges the Cher River to Vichy France - that's the story i heard anyway

Padraig

After a few days incommunicado (our accommodation in Amboise did not deliver on the wifi that was claimed on its website) I am back home now. I'm not big into trip reports, much preferring the conversational mode that we have had on this thread. I did some jottings, however, and will post them when I get around to adding the last few paragraphs.

On scrb's question: there seems to be no single policy on restoring chateaux. Nor, I think, should there be. Each chateau has its own history, and how it is presented today should reflect that history. Besides, one has to think of the costs, which could be immense.

Chenonceau was indeed a bridge between occupied France and Vichy France, because the river Cher was the frontier, and the chateau bridges the river. Apparently there was a German battery ready to shell the chateau at any time.

scrb

I would imagine restoration of the chateaux would be undertaken by the national govt?

Wasn't that the case with Notre Dame? City of Paris may have paid but surely got money from the national govt?

I remember when the Notre Dame and the Louvre had grimy facades. Spain seems to have gotten a lot of EU funding to restore its architectural treasures.

Would imagine the French would try to secure some EU funds too, funneled through the national govt.

Mitterand's Grand Travaux example seems to be followed by all French govts., even if no PM since Mitterand has been as prolific builders.

Padraig

Do you know how many Loire chateaux there are? Should Angers or Nantes, or Chinon be restored? And as for those in a more complete condition, what's wrong with a bit of ageing (he asks, in a self-interested way)? Do you not think it adds a bit of character? And there is restoration work going on: I mentioned the construction of a new access bridge at Saumur, and the continuing work at Fontevraud -- admittedly not a chateau, but an important building that is up there among the chateaux as a place to see.

scrb

But they must bring a lot of revenues, no?

And they will continue to attract tourism but removing decades of grime can't hurt.

At any rate the postcards certainly don't highlight the character, they look pristine taken from a distance.

klondike

Very much enjoying your report Padraig!

Have you ever dined at the Abbaye de Fontevraud? The cuisine is excellent and the ambiance of dining in the cloister, especially by evening candlelight, is quite magical. The rooms are simple and quite affordable...one of my fondest memories is walking through the gardens after hours (one of the perks of staying there).

re: Loches-not on the "main" chateau route, but we have really enjoyed basing there at the foot of the chateau on several occasions. It is a very "human" town, where real people live and work, and to sit back and watch the going-on is most enjoyable. Hotel de France is affordable with character and very good cuisine.

Waiting to hear more!

Padraig

Here's the rest of it:

Thursday:

Our last dinner this year in Saumur: we decided to go with one of our host's recommendations, Bistrot de la Place (the Place being Place St Pierre). It was fairly busy, but they could accommodate us. The food was, as we had been advised, regional -- although I am not convinced that crab-meat with beetroot is an Angevin specialty. Overall, it was a satisfactory and good value dining experience, but the service was somewhat slower than I like.

Checking out of Hôtel de Londres, we had a conversation with François, our host. He asked how we had chosen his hotel, and I told him that internet research played a part in it. I had touched what seemed to be a raw nerve. How did I know which reviews were fair, and which were unreasonable? How might I know if a criticism was out of date? Telling him that my screening method was the application of intelligence and judgement did little to make him feel better: can we count on everybody to do that? I could see his problem: he is a young man with a family, running a hotel that is about 150 years old, and with a phased modernisation plan. Reports on deficiencies that existed two years ago were no longer relevant (although the absence of a lift is not due to be remedied until 2014: his plan has a clear shape, and is budgeted all the way). It must be frightening, in a situation like his, to find his business vulnerable to unfair comments by strangers.

Anyway, the programme was to proceed to Amboise, and I commissioned the satnav for its entertainment value. We knew the way: follow the Loire eastward and, a little bit after Tours, there it is. But we got our entertainment: we drove alongside the river where there was no road, and on several occasions went in the river. Then we crossed where we thought there was a bridge, but the satnav had us swimming. Then it found a road for us. We drove near it for quite a distance, even touching it a few times. Finally we got onto the road, and it brought us right into the river.

Herself had put Villandry into the programme, so we stopped there, and paid €18 to visit the chateau and the gardens. I thought the chateau mildly interesting, but the gardens! Oh, the gardens! Why would anybody bother? Were I possessed of enough wealth to develop gardens like that, I'd do something -- anything -- else with my fortune. Herself liked them. I hope she got about €16 worth of pleasure, because I reckon my enjoyment was worth about €2.

On to Amboise. We parked near the river (Amboise is not bad for free parking) and set out in search of two things: late lunch and directions to the B&B we had booked. The latter was easily done -- an enquiry at the tourist office and we had a marked map and full verbal directions. Late lunch in France is less easy except for the sort of fast food that doesn't really interest us. Even in a tourist town like Amboise, the rules are kept: come 2 o'clock and lunch is over. We settled for sandwiches and, to compensate, booked for dinner in l'Épicerie. Ours was the only name on the booking sheet, and I wondered if we were over-cautious.

Our arrival at the B&B, Manoir de la Maison Blanche, was a great adventure for the house's two large dogs, a Great Dane and a Golden Retriever. There was loud excited barking; the car was inspected, and then we were inspected before the Great Dane slobbered his approval. This is not a house for those nervous of dogs. The room we were given was part of a recently converted out-building, very much in the style of a gite rurale, down to the mysterious bits of ironwork that probably belong to an agricultural past.

After orientation and a short rest, we went for dinner. Yes, there was a point in reserving, as l'Épicerie was almost full when we arrived, but there was a prime table waiting just for us. Even though the restaurant was in a tourist-trap location right beside the chateau, the standard of cooking and service was far better than one sometimes finds in such situations. The menu was moderately interesting, there was clearly some pride in performance in the kitchen, and the dining-room staff were efficient and friendly. All in all, a good recommendation to have received.

Friday:

After breakfast, we had asked with our hostess, Annick, for restaurant recommendations, indicating that l'Épicerie was a fair reference for the standards we like, and she listed a few places that she is happy to use.

This was chateau day. First Chenonceau, which we aimed to get to relatively early on the supposition that the numbers would build up considerably as the day went on and the Easter weekend kicked in. Even at 10.00 am on a cold wet Friday morning, there were a good few visitors there, but the numbers were not intolerable (some individuals were, but that's another matter). On our only previous visit to Chenonceau, many years ago, our visit was hurried and incomplete because of an early closing (I think we might also have got in free for the same reason, because I do not harbour a long-term festering resentment at having been hard done by). Anyway, we rated it a good visit, even if the rain and the cold wind discouraged us from spending time in the gardens and taking in the perhaps the finest exterior views of any chateau in the Loire Valley.

Onward to Loches, through rain that had become heavy. This week, Loches declares itself to be a ville en fête. The only sign we saw of festivities was an incomprehensible traffic management system: no sooner were we in sight of centre ville than we were sent on a road out of town which seemed to offer no turning back for quite a distance. On our second try, we got in, parked, and had a lunch of moules & frites. Back in the car, we set out to find the chateau. The route was signposted, but many of the streets were closed off, and the sparse déviation signs proved not to be helpful. Eventually, due more to luck than to good signposting, we found parking du chateau and parked.

Loches is a chateau we had not been to previously. It turned out to be a two-for-one deal, a walled hill-top enclosure, the cité royale de Loches, with a medieval keep at one end, and a more comfortable royal lodge at the other, developed in the 14th century (thus, not really a great deal more comfortable than the medieval donjon, but it did have bigger windows). Lots to see, and if it hadn't been for a chill wind, we might have seen even more.

Getting out of Loches was just as difficult as getting in. We ended up doing so twice, because our first exit took us in entirely the wrong direction. Anyway, we made it back to Amboise, any thoughts of stopping en route having been washed out by incessant rain.

We ate on Thursday where the locals eat. A restaurant a little outside the main tourist drag, where the menu was in French only, and all the customers other than us were French, many obviously known in the establishment. Before you decide that you must dine at Les Remparts, be sure that you would not be alarmed by a dish incorporating rognons et ris de veau, or be disturbed by the appearance of giblets on your salad. And that you think a good dinner with a little wine is worth €70.

Saturday

We had set visiting the Clos Lucé as one of our main targets at Amboise. This is a small chateau with many associations, but is best known as the home where Leonardo da Vinci lived out his final years, an honoured guest of François 1er. Last time we were in Amboise, we ran out of time, and saw only the outside; this was to be remedied. As with Chenonceau, in order to avoid the worst crowding, we went there in the morning. This was a good thing, because the house is relatively small, and even about 30 people rambling in an unfocused manner can make things difficult. The basement houses models of many of Leonardo's inventions, and the "do not touch" notices in several languages were ignored in all of them.

From the house into the gardens. Even though they have been to some extent manufactured, I liked them far better than those at Villandry -- essentially, because nature is treated as something in which to rejoice rather than something to subjugate. Realisations of many of da Vinci's inventions are set in the gardens. Some made sense in the context, like bridges he had designed, while others did not, and I thought they cluttered the garden a bit. Despite the facts that there was a cold wind blowing, that it was muddy underfoot after several wet days, and that we were spattered by showers, we were happy to spend time exploring and enjoying the garden.

A late snack lunch was followed by a visit to a foire aux vins in Amboise, which was very much a local event. Having already stocked up with reds, we were in search of some dry white wines. We sampled perhaps a dozen wines from about seven local producers who, with a single exception, seemed to be amazingly disinterested in telling us anything about their product or inducing us to buy any. It happened that the wines were not particularly to our liking, so their lack of sales effort was matched by our lack of purchasing interest.

Next we decided to do some gentle tourism, visiting some of the riverside villages between Amboise and Tours. First, Vouvray. The only thing to do in Vouvray is buy wine, and we didn't want to buy any, because we already have some Vouvray bubbly at home. So we moved on. The rain started: serious drenching rain, visibility-reducing rain, stay-in-the-car rain. We missed the Loire crossing near Vouvray, and found ourselves on the way into Tours with satnav that did not recognise the city, heavy rain falling, and at rush hour. After some struggles, delays, and much cursing and swearing, we made it across the river, heading back to Amboise on the south bank of the river, a scenic route passing through a number of attractive villages, which we did not visit because of the continuous rain. Next time.

Dinner at La Réserve, close to the chateau. What can I say? We were happy again. Happy also that we had reserved, as the room was full and people turning up on spec were being turned away -- to come back perhaps an hour later, often to be turned away again. One couple got a table on their third attempt, perhaps and hour and a half after they first showed up (I am assuming that they had not been trying before our arrival). My impression is that Amboise has plenty of restaurants, and many aim at meeting at least a moderately high standard, so I formed the picture of hungry people going from restaurant to restaurant, hoping for a table to become available.

Sunday (Easter Sunday)

First to the chateau at Chaumont because Herself, with her interest in characters from history, wanted to see what sort of deal Diane de Poitiers when Catherine de Medici exchanged it for Chenonceau. It was difficult to evaluate. Chaumont is certainly a fine property, but we found it difficult to compare with Chenonceau because it is set up principally as its wealthy owners had it late in the nineteenth century, and because of large art installations that I considered obtrusive.

Next, because of convenience rather than any prior research, we headed for Montrichard to see what the chateau there is like. The small town was very quiet. Again, we were late for lunch, and failed to find any place serving snacks. We took coffee in a bar staffed by two older men, both seeming lugubrious, where there was one other customer, and old man in a corner quietly drinking beer. There was a pervasive sense of nothing happening which managed to encompass us. Forty minutes of our lives slipped by.

We found the chateau, which was something of a wreck into which a local group had placed museum collections. It didn't look promising, but we paid the admission fee to check it out. The collections were eclectic, with stuff to interest and to bore everybody. We found enough to interest us and skipped past other stuff, and we had some difficulty interpreting the chateau itself, much of which was inaccessible for safety reasons. Because of its height, it offered great views. While it was a mixed bag, we agreed that it was a worthwhile one.

Dinner that night in l'Alliance in Amboise. We arrived at the time we had booked, our table was ready, and we were given menus and time to peruse them. Two other parties arrived, and were seated near us. Their orders were taken and one party had food in front of them before we managed to attract attention to place our orders. Had we not seen how difficult it can be to get into other restaurants in Amboise, we would have walked. I did make my displeasure known, but without making a big scene because it is not my way of doing things, and we received an apology. Then they got the wine order wrong, resulting in another apology. The food, when we got it, was very good, but my enjoyment was lessened because of the earlier service shortcomings. With our desserts, the server delivered two glasses of Champagne (not Vouvray -- we know the difference) "offerts par la maison". It seemed a reasonable gesture of recompense, but it might have worked better had they be given as aperitifs so as to change our mood before the meal. But we gave them credit for making an effort. Then the bill came. Two meals, €59.00. Boissons offertes -- not just the Champagne, but our wine and even our post-prandial coffee and tea.

Monday/Tuesday

And there ends this story. From Amboise we went to Rennes to spend the night with friends (not the stuff of travel writing, but I will comment that they cooked for us the two best meals of the week -- it's nice to have friends who cook really well, even if the main pleasure is the time spent together) thence to Cherbourg where we bought some more wine before boarding the ferry for home.

Palenque

interesting reading about all these places - brings back great memories of bike and car-camping trips in the Loire with my then young French son, who lived in Orleans. thank you

Padraig

I'm glad to bring back good memories, PalQ.

We passed the pagoda de Chanteloup several times. Herself declined the opportunity to climb it, using the excuse that it was bucketing rain every time I made the offer.

klondike, I thought I had responded to your post earlier, but it seems to have got lost in the ether (or I forgot the "Submit" button). We did notice the restaurant at Fontevraud, and even went so far as to check the menu; well, Herself checked the menu, because she did not need to dig out glasses to do so. Her comment was "they take themselves seriously, and charge enough". We non-serious people usually go for mid-market dining, with some degree of informality.

A couple of post-scripts:

1. The effigy of Eleanor of Aquitaine in Fontevraud looks nothing like Katherine Hepburn in "The Lion in Winter".

2. In one restaurant, a young server, probably an apprentice, was in charge of the cheese trolley (a civilised French idea which is less common than it used to be). He parked it across the table from Herself, the cheeses at about her eye level and thus difficult to survey, and invited her to make her selection. I suspected mischief, as there was room to move the trolley to where she could see things better -- he may have been thinking that these anglais (the French generally divide Anglophones into anglais and americaines, as they usually cannot discriminate more precisely than that) don't know about cheese, so why bother? She spotted a Ste. Maure, which was fairly local, and asked for a piece. His demeanour changed, and he became helpful. We selected our cheeses by name, and he remarked with a mixture of surprise and approval that we know our cheeses (the dice had fallen in our favour, because we happened to know most of the cheeses on his chariot). The norm is to ask for three portions, but he pressed an extra piece on each of us when I asked him about a particular cheese that we did not recognise. These little triumphs can give us great joy.

DaveMM

Great stuff to consider while planning our trip. Thanks.

DaveMM

annhig

These little triumphs can give us great joy.>>

oh, Padraig, I thought I was the only one. did it make up for the indifference of the wine-sellers? - I've met them too.

perhaps they are only reacting to years of tourists tasting but not buying. but if that were the case, why do thy bother in the first place?

Padraig

Ann, I enjoy my little triumphs because I don't have many big ones.

I did wonder about the foire aux vins, with the same "why bother?" question. I can suggest two thoughts. First, some of the stalls were staffed by young people, who might have been school-going offspring of the producers, and would have preferred to be elsewhere. Second, we indicated that our interest was in finding a very dry white, and their offerings were no closer than medium dry. The irony is that our choice for vin de table at home is Sauvignon de Touraine.

bilboburgler

The abbey at Fontevraud is a favorite of mine but I agree the restaurant is over priced (position, position) and we prefer the Unicorn up the hill (this means a spooky walk through the abbey by torch light.)

Saumur Champigny and Champigny is a couple of wines that get a bad press (only parisian's like it etc) but I find it ages well (5 or 6 years).

Vouvray; Georges Brunet makes the most amazing range of fizz trhough to dry white at silly (low) prices

annhig

The irony is that our choice for vin de table at home is Sauvignon de Touraine>>

a bit dry for my taste, though i find vouvray is usually too sweet - there's no suiting some folks. i do like Loire reds in summer - we're hoping to stock up on our trip next month. did you pass any likely looking suppliers on your trip?