Kandace_York

Hi there. Teenaged daughter (enthusiastic traveler, tons of energy) and I are planning a budget trip to England this fall for some college-visiting. We have a couple options on our flights, all within a few dollars of each other, and all with rather long layovers in Europe (8 to 10 hours or more).

We're both conversational in German and pretty comfortable exploring. I figure that regardless of the city we fly in to, we should allow 2 hours to get through customs and 2 hours' advance arrival before our departing flight.

I realize that even with a 10-hour layover, this leaves very little time to do more than take a train into the city, walk around mainplatz, get a cup of coffee, and head back to the airport. But she would love to visit one more country if possible, even understanding that this would barely be a smidgeon of a visit.

With that info, where would you rather spend three or four hours: Brussels, Zurich or Frankfurt?

I'm leaning toward Frankfurt because of nearby Mainz and because I'm not at all familiar with Zurich or Brussels, plus I don't speak a single word of Flemish (I know it's a Germanic language, and one of my colleagues is from Belgium so we can get the gist of cross-German-Flemish communicating, but it's pretty darned rough).

Thoughts? Thanks.

Christina

I have only been in Brussels, so can't compare. I enjoyed it, and seems like it has a logical target for a short time (the Grand Place). I spoke French when there, not Flemish. Lots of people spoke French, it seemed to me, at least where I was in the city. Isn't that one of its official languages? But if you don't know French, don't worry about not knowing Flemish, most tourists don't.

YOu really don't need to worry about language for a 10 hr layover, though. Have you traveled a lot? Becuase you mention having to allow 2 hrs for "customs" when arriving in Europe, and that isn't true at all. You don't need time for customs as a tourist (I presume you aren't bringin in large items for resale or unusual products), you don't need any time at all. Customs are for when you go back home. You need some time for passport/immigration control, though, but I've never spent 2 hrs in any country at that.

Tulips

Really no need to speak Flemish when visiting Brussels - everyone speaks at least some English, many people speak it very well.

Train to Brussels, wander around the Grand Place, eat waffles, drink a beer, buy some chocolates and train back to the airport. Easy.

If you can transfer in Amsterdam, even better.

Tulips

Christina is right - unless there is some sort of problem or strike, you really don't need two hours to get out of the airport. In Brussels there's sometimes a long walk, but still you'll be outside with your luggage in less than an hour.

And if your luggage is checked through and you have your boarding pass for the onward flight, an hour beforehand is enough when flying within Europe.

Brussels is officially bilingual; Flemish (Dutch) or French - most locals speak French.

simpsonc510

Zurich is an easy one to do. It doesn't take long to get through immigration in my experience. The train to the city is in the basement of the airport. Very easy! Take the train to the Hauptbahnhof (the main train station) which is located on the Bahnhofstrasse. I would spend my time walking the Bahnhofstrasse, window shopping, buying some delicious Swiss chocolates, having a coffee at an outside cafe, and then heading back to the airport. I would allow more time for re-entering the secure area of the airport. If you find yourself with some extra time, the shopping at ZRH is superb.

treplow

Knowimg all three cities,and having lived in Brussels and Frankfurt, my vote would go to Brussels. The old part (around Grand Place) is very compact. Train airport to city center is fast, although you should plan on taxi from station to Grand Place. Unlike Frankfurt center, Brussels center was not completely destoyed during WWII, and since rebuilt. You'll be fine with German and English.It would be just your dumb luck that you address someone in French and it turns out he insists on speaking Flemish. Happened to me in one of the Commune city offices in Uccle, in the Flemisg section of Brussels.

Train Frankfurt airport to city also fast and convenient, but you also would need to take taxi or subway (U-Bahn) to City Center (Old Roemer City hall, Cathedral (DOM), Zeil (main shopping district), Main River and museums on the Sachsnhausen side of the river.

Zureich - Knoten airport train to city also convenient; main sights are the lake and business district.

adrienne

The language in any of these cities won't matter since everyone you'll connect with will speak English.

Frankfurt is very easy and there are trains to Mainz with no connections. They take anywhere from 17 minutes to a half hour. The train station is in the lower level of the airport and the signs for trains are clearly marked.

A 10 hour layover in Frankfurt is a huge amount of time. There is basically no customs in Europe. You go through a door marked nothing to declare and you're done. You do need to go through immigration where you have your passport stamped but this only takes a few minutes. You don't pickup your luggage as you'll have it sent to your final destination.

If you stay in Frankfurt, rather than going to Mainz, you could take a 3 hour walking tour which is very good and very cheap. The train goes from the airport to the main train station in 10 minutes and leaves every 15 minutes. You buy a ticket on the platform and leave from track #1 (if I remember correctly). Once in the train station you can take either the S-bahn or U-bahn to Romer to pick up the tour. I can't remember which one is included with your ticket into town but there's an excellent TI in the main train station on the right just before you exit through the main door.

http://www.frankfurtonfoot.com/

There are lots of things to do in Frankfurt and though most people do not rate it very highly it's quite a nice city.

But...it would be hard to pass up the Chagall windows in Mainz - when I walked into the church I gasped as I had no idea of how beautiful they would be. I've seen a lot of beautiful stained glass and was overwhelmed by these windows.

Travelforbeer

Hi Kandace- you can't go wrong with a layover in any of these cities. Can you put off your decision until 7-8 days before you leave? If so, check the weather forcast and pick the one with the lowest chance of rain. Otherwise, pick the one with the longest layover to give yourself the best chance to see more.

Have a great trip!!!

adrienne

Put off buying plane tickets until a week before when the prices have risen? I'd say this is not a good idea.

simpsonc510

Buy your tickets around 2 months out, not the week before. You will pay dearly for waiting, as all of the cheaper fares will no doubt be taken by that time.

tom18

A caveat about Zurich - Switzerland uses the Swiss franc, not the euro. So you'd have to mess around with another currency for a short visit.

Kandace_York

Thanks, everyone! Lots to consider.

@Christina, sorry, I use "customs" interchangeably with immigration, which I shouldn't do here. Usually, though, when I talk about immigration, people gasp and say, "WHAT? You're not *emigrating,* are you?" But "customs" they understand.

We have another 6 weeks or so until we need to make a decision, so I appreciate the info -- good stuff to mull over here. @Tom18, I had forgotten about the Swiss franc issue (though, since most of our trip is in Great Britain, and no one else uses the British pound, we'd need a second currency anyhow).

Re: language, I know that technically we might not *need* to speak the language, but we had some rather horrific experiences in Paris from not knowing more than a few words of French, and I'd really prefer not to go someplace unless I have a basic vocabulary. Even if we might be able to survive it, you lose a lot by not knowing what signs, interpretive text, etc., mean.

Andrew

I have never, ever worried about the language when traveling to Europe on numerous trips now - even to places as far afield as Poland and Bosnia and Herzegovina. Even when spending days or weeks and not knowing more than five words of the local language, I have never had a serious issue, only an occasional communication problem that has always been easily resolved, at least for me. It's true I guess that I might miss a tiny bit of the "experience" by not knowing the language - but I would never visit most of these places if I had to learn basic vocabulary first. I had great, memorable experiences; I never felt like I merely "survived" just because I spoke only English.

And yes, I have had language issues in Paris taxis, too. But you won't need to take a taxi in any of these cities - just use the trains.

For a day trip in Brussels, Zurich, or Frankfurt, language should not even be on any tourist's radar as a hint of concern. Zero.

I've been only to Brussels and Zurich. Of the two, Zurich is more picturesque - even more so if the day is sunny and you might see the alps. (I visited Zurich on a rainy day and still enjoyed the views of the river, the big clocks, the old town streets, etc.) On the other hand, Zurich is ungodly expensive to buy anything. And Brussels is certainly not a bad place, either. The Grand Place is beautiful especially at night.

If flying into Brussels, you also have the option of avoiding another plane and taking the Eurostar train from Brussels on to London, but I imagine that may cost you a tad more. Some people enjoy the trains, though.

adrienne

If you don't want to confuse people with the word immigration you can use passport control which means the same thing.

Why are you waiting 6 weeks before booking your plane trips? Aren't you worried about increased air fares during this time, especially as your on a budget trip?

dfourh

I think you got it with Mainz. It's about 20 minutes from the airport (trains run all the time). And Mainz is small and easy. When you arrive after an overnight it is nice to keep it simple. The train station is a longish walk from the old center, but the train station itself will be fun for all of you, with the shops and nibbles, and once in the old center it is very casual. A nice way to saunter gently through an arrival day.

I do like zipping in and out of Brussels, but only if there is beer involved. Otherwise, it is kind of intense and highly touristed. I don't know Zurich at all.

But from FRA you could EVEN consider, with that amount of time, taking the train up through Mainz to Bacharach -- a pretty little Rhine tour is in the cards, including even a ride on the boat north upstream from Bacharach to St. Goar, and then doubling back on the train - - it CAN be done.

Kandace_York

Adrienne, thanks -- I like passport control as a good cover-all term.

Re: airfare, we're not leaving until late October. All the research I've done indicates that the best time to purchase international tickets to Europe is 80 - 150 days before departure.

Re: language, each to his own. I've done it both ways -- knowing a foreign language and not knowing a foreign language -- and being able to compare the two, I found it measurably and dramatically better to know the language at least somewhat. That may not be true for everyone, but it certainly has been true for me and my family. It's also fantastic incentive to broaden language skills and learn even more about the places visited. Just a personal preference, I guess.

Thanks again, everyone, for your perspectives. I really appreciate hearing your thoughts on these places. Still a tough choice, though!

Andrew

Kandace_York: <i>Re: language, each to his own. I've done it both ways -- knowing a foreign language and not knowing a foreign language -- and being able to compare the two, I found it measurably and dramatically better to know the language at least somewhat. That may not be true for everyone, but it certainly has been true for me and my family. It's also fantastic incentive to broaden language skills and learn even more about the places visited. Just a personal preference, I guess.</i>

I could see your point if you were talking about a two week trip somewhere, perhaps where you intend to interact with locals or visit small non-touristy towns - but a day trip where almost everyone you talk to will speak at least some English? What's the point of studying up on your language skills for your ten hour day visit somewhere? On the contrary, to use language as a top criteria to perhaps avoid a very beautiful, rewarding place - one where you might return later as part of a longer trip - seems needlessly limiting.

Wouldn't you rather sample, say, Brussels and see if you like Belgium as an incentive to return later as part of a longer trip where you might then learn some French or Flemish to use?

Travelforbeer

Adrienne & Simpsonc510- would you consider making no-cost cancellable airline reservations to multiple cities far in advance a good way to get to a city with good weather for one day? I assumed the OP has enough travel experience to accomplish that, just as I have made air, hotel, and car reservations for the same day to/from/in multiple cities for various reasons...And sometimes one can get lucky and find discounted last minute coach airfares...

Cowboy1968

Getting around in Brussels with English only is dead easy.
With all the EU officials and business travellers from 28 member states going to EU institutions, almost each and every shop and restaurant staff is able to communicate in English (to some extent).
Official signage (e.g. at airports, train stations, metro vending machines etc.) is at least also in German (as it is one of Belgium's three official languages), but almost always also in English.

Cowboy1968

Dang.. almost forgot:
From BRU airport it is now as easy to go to Antwerp by train (direct) as it is to get into central Brussels. It just takes 10-15 minutes longer.
Antwerp is more compact than Brussels, has a nice access to the historic city center from its central station (15min walk along a pedestrian street). And you can get a good feeling for a Flemish town within the time frame you have.
And English is more or less also Antwerp's second language.