We are planning a 9-day trip in late Sept./early Oct. and plan to see Southern Germany, Austria and Switzerland. Today is Day 1 of planning. Any suggestions on itineraries and lodging?

Net, Where are you flying into--out of? <BR>Are you driving? How many is "we". <BR>Have you been before? There are many options. You will need to tell us more to get a good answer. Nine days is not <BR>very long. You will be pressed to do <BR>justice to all 3 areas in that time.

Bob-I appreciate any input. Everything is pretty much open at this point. It may even be too early to ask for input from others as it's probably best to have a game plan and then have it critiqued on this site. We is two and we're thinking to fly into and out of Munich and/or Frankfurt. We can consider flying into one city and out of another. It's our first trip to this area and we're open to car or train. We toured Northern Italy last year and travelled by train only. Southern Germany is where we'd like to spend most of our time adding a bit of Austria. Maybe we'll save Switzerland for another trip if necessary.

Bob-It might be helpful to know that we enjoy hiking, we love to dine and we love to explore small towns with character and charm. Prefer to be off the beaten path than in bigger cities. And sounds like a castle or two cannot be missed. Looking forward to any and all suggestions. Thanks again.

Net. <BR> <BR>I saw your recent posting on Italy, which I thought was pretty impressive, so I doubt that you really need much help. However here are a few snippets to get you started, as this is one my favourite areas. I'm assuming you opt for rail again, but can be done by road. <BR>I presume you will start with Munich, Southern Bavaria (Berchtesgarden etc) and Salzburg, as they are all fairly adjacent. <BR>I think for a 9 day trip, Vienna will be a bit too far - it is a truly magnificient city, but quite a long way there and back from Southern Germany to Switzerland. Save it for the next trip, combined with Prague maybe. <BR>Innsbruck in the Tyrol and the Brenner Pass just to the South are almost "definites" To get to Innsbruck from Salzburg, there is a much more scenic, though less direct route via Bischofshofen and Zell am See. The trains all connect. I have'nt stayed at Zell am See, but have made a note to do so in the future, as it looks like a pretty little base, as a change from the bigger cities, with good walking and boating opportunities. <BR>Here is a different and scenically majestic route from Innsbruck into Switzerland. West from Innsbruck to Landeck, then South over the mountains to Scuol Tarasp in Switzerland, from where trains continue to St.Moritz or Chur. The renowned "Glacier Express" starts from either of those places, up the Upper Rhine Valley, and down the Upper Rhone valley to Brig, from where you have multiple choices. North to the Bernese Oberland around Interlaken, West to Lake Geneva, or South to Zermatt and the Matterhorn. I would probably choose the former, which is also heading in the right direction for you. The whole section from Innsbruck to Interlaken is a scenic pleasure. All by train except Landeck-Scuol Tarasp which has a connecting bus service. <BR>Hope this lot gets your brains ticking over. Enjoy, both the planning and the trip.

Thanks for the input Tony. Would you suggest flying into Munich and out of Zurich with your itinerary? Also, at first glance it seems as though a car will be necessary to tour Southern Germany. Would having a car be tricky for the rest of your itinerary?

If you like hiking, you may want to see if there will be any 'volksmarches' int the towns you will visit. You can either wait until you get there, or contact the American Volkssport Assn (www.ava.com - or org) <BR> <BR>These are 10 km or greater walks that are very well attended and will give you an event that is typically Germanic. <BR> <BR>My favorite towns in the area you are going are Rothenburg and Salzburg - you could spend 9 days just doing these two

Steve-Any thoughts re weather in October as it relates to hiking?

OK NET, Now I comprehend. I love this area and you will too. First, fly into <BR>and out of Munich---easy and the best car rental rates in Europe. I would drive straight to the Salzburg area but <BR>not stay in Salzburg. I would stay on the Wolfgangsee, probably St. Gilgen, and use that as my base camp for 4 days <BR>in the Salzkammergaut region. Day trips <BR>will include Salzburg[20 miles], Hallstatt, the Austrian Lakes, and also <BR>Berchesgarten---all great stuff. <BR> <BR>Now, lets drive to Bavaria and stay in <BR>either Fussen or Oberammergau for 2 days in the castle country. Oops, you mean THIS year. I think the Passion Play is still playing then---forget these towns, or stay in Reutte Aus. instead. Or, let's go down to the Val <BR>Gardena in the Dolomites. As good as the Swiss Alps and alot closer. <BR> <BR>I have lots of ideas for you but the best one is the Austria scenario. If you skip Bavaria altogether you would have time for parts of CH, to include <BR>Luzern. Contact me by email for more.

Net. <BR> <BR>Answers to your earlier questions. <BR> <BR>If you have a rail pass at some stage. it does'nt really matter where you fly out of. Obviously Zurich would be the most convenient, but if you can get an appreciably cheaper fare on round trip, as opposed to open jaw, then it does'nt take long by train back to Munich. <BR>You can actually tour quite a bit of Southern Bavaria by train, but I agree with you that a car would be better. <BR>You could consider renting a car after a day in Munich, and then return it to Munich a couple of days later, as it only takes 90 minutes on the hourly train service from Munich to Salzburg. In which case you could pick up and drop the car at Munich station. <BR>Having said that the rest of my itinerary is perfectly possible by car, with the big proviso that the poor old driver will miss a lot of the grandeur, as he/she concentrates on the hairpin bends, and of course will not be as relaxed on arrival. Your call I think!

We made a similar trip last October, and thought the weather at that time was perfect. We stay a week in Heidelberg with a group and toured that area with them. <BR> <BR>Then, we rented a car and the second week we saw Colmar, Basel, Lucerne, the Bodensee area, Fussen and the Bavarian countryside. On to Munich, Salzberg, back to Munich, and returned to Frankfurt by car on "The Romantic Road". <BR> <BR>We stayed in "Garni's" outside the cities, enjoyed good food, and the pleasure of moving at our own pace. We are planning a return trip next year.

Thanks for all of the input. Sounds great. If I plan on visiting Oberg on 10/7 (day after Passion Play ends) do you think I'll have many residual effects of the play traffic? Also, does anyone know on what date Octoberfest ends?

Net, <BR>Oktoberfest runs from September 22 until October 7 (this from the Munich Tourist office website). <BR> <BR>You shouldn't encounter mobs of travelers in conjunction with the final day of the Passion Play. I would suggest your planning on early arrivals at tourist sites such as Neuschwanstein, Linderhof, Wieskirke or Ettal, prior to the arrival of tourist buses from Munich (10:00AM or so). <BR> <BR>On a completely different subject, if you've been reading some of the posts here from returning tourists to Germany and Bavaria, you'll see some comments about being "fed up with a steady diet of sausages, as good as they are". Bavaria offers some interesting opportunities to sample game, Chamois, an Alpine antelope, tastes much like venison but with a more subtle flavor. Alpine streams abound in trout. Leberkasse, Bavaria's answer to your mother's meatloaf makes for an interesting diversion in dining. Look for Schlachtschussel, too; breast of pork with liver sausage served with a sauerkraut-like dish of pickled cabbage and Knodel, a potato dumpling. <BR> <BR>I sent you a rather lengthy Email with some itineraries and suggestions for accommodations that I thought you might find useful. Did you receive it? <BR>

Wes- <BR>Thanks for the culinary recommendations! I don't think I could ever get fed up with sausages, but the items you mention sound like interesting alternatives. <BR>Yes, I did receive your detailed itinerary and thank you immensely for it. To be perfectly honest I haven't sat down with my reference books, maps, etc. to plot out the trip, but rest assure, I'll have lots of questions for you once I do! Thanks again.

If you like sausages (as I do - I would eat them every meal in Germany if my wife would lwet me!), then you will get an interesting variety if you order the 'hausgemacht wurst' (the house variety)

Come on, Steve, there are some times when over riding the Mrs. is a must!!

The more I read about southern Germany, the more I think we should spend our entire 9 days there and give it the full attention it deserves as someone on this site so aptly suggested. We can save Switzerland and Austria for another time.

Now you're talkin', Net! Bavaria can easily occupy all your time. In Bavaria in September, look for "Viehscheid" in the rural villages. It's an annual event when farmers bring their cattle down from the mountains for the winter. Cows, with ornate headresses are paraded through the villages, beer and sausage is consumed in great quantity and a festive atmosphere reigns. If you plan to be in the Allgau or Schwabia, there's a website listing all of the "Viehscheid" events in the area as well as flea and farmers' markets. <BR>Take a look at: <BR>www.allgaeu-schwaben.com/event.html and www.allgaeu-schwaben.com/eviehscheidevent.html