Grinisa

Please do not take my posts out of context. If I ever said the Vatican Museums can be &quot;done&quot; in an hour, which quote I am unable to find in my list of posts, it referred to those people who wanted to see the Sistine Chapel and possibly some other highlights like the Raphael Rooms. It does not include any time spent standing in line for tickets, which can take up to four hours.<BR>58 minutes from Sorrento to Salerno? On the Amalfi Drive or the autostrada? If the Amalfi Drive, that estimate is grossly understated. It took us 40 minutes to get from Positano to Sorrento at 7 am on a Sunday morning with absolutely no other traffic. Getting from Salerno to Positano at 4 pm three days before took nearly three hours, and traffic wasn't all that bad.<BR>Buon Viaggio!!

HowardR

I agree with Grinisa, first, about time needed to do justice to the Vatican Museum and St. Peter's. And second, most if not all of your travel times seem way out of line from reality! Plus, you don't even build in any time to get from your car, via public transportation, to the specific destinations.<BR>You comment, &quot;In defense of my husband, he looked at this itinerary and found a lot of empty spaces &amp; hence, the suggestion to add Venice &amp; Milan.&quot; Empty spaces? Surely, you jest!

MarinaK

Pilchard,<BR><BR>What would you cut off from the second itinerary (original itinerary)?<BR><BR>Grinisa,<BR><BR>I found your Sistine Chapel &quot;advice&quot; on the threads titled &quot;Vatican Museums&quot; &amp; &quot;What to do in Rome for one afternoon/evening&quot;.<BR><BR>Thanks for the actual driving experience. The times &amp; mileage I posted was gotten off the viamichelin web site. With the information you gave, I can see now that Day 4 &amp; 5 still needs some work.<BR><BR>This itinerary is not set in stone. It's something to work on and it might change even when we're there.<BR><BR>Nothing has been booked except for the plane tickets and the accommodation in Rome.

Grinisa

So now not only do you take my quotes out of context you misqoute them as well. Coming from a person who accused another poster of being &quot;illiterate&quot; I find this amusing. Since you believe my &quot;advise&quot; to be &quot;worthless&quot; I find it amazing that you would take the trouble to search for, read and rely on any of my previous posts on other threads. I will state my opinion on the Vatican clearly for all who are interested. MarinaK, you can stop reading now. For first time visitors to the Vatican, who are actually interested in seeing the Basilica and the Museums and the wonderful works of art they each contain and actually learning something about them, I think you should spend about two hours and half hours in the Basilica. This gives you enough time to see the Pieta, the statue of St. Peter by Arnolfo di Cambio, the high altar and Baldachinno by Bernini, the confessio by Maderno, the niches under the great dome containing the colossal statues of St. Veronica, St. Helena, St. Andrew and St. Longinus by Bernini, the chair of St. Peter held in a composition by Bernini, the Treasury, the grottoes with the tombs of the Popes (not the Scavi which is seperate two hour tour)and climb the Dome. It takes about 20 to 30 minutes to walk to the Vatican Museum entrance but if open, stop into the parish church of the Vatican, St. Anna, along the way. At the Museums, after you have stood in line from anywhere to 20 minutes to 4 hours, take the shortest route (I forget which color it is, yellow maybe). This will allow you to see just the highlights (no Egyptian, no Etruscan, very little ancient Roman and Greek sculpture)of the Museums. You will see the galleries of Tapestries, Maps, the Raphael Rooms, the Borgia Apartments, gallery of Modern Religious Art (which I would breeze through) and finally the Sistine Chapel. Depending on your pace and how long you like to look at art, this tour can take anywhere from one hour to three hours. It would also be good to stop into the Pinacoteca (Picture Gallery) to see the works of art in there. That is about another 30 minutes to 90 minutes, again depending on how long you enjoy looking at art. Absolute minimum time spent in Vatican City: five hours. Does not include lunch time or snack break or time spent in the Vatian Gift shops or post office which could be considerable.

Pilchard

Well, since you asked...<BR><BR>Forget the car for a while. Spend three or four days in Rome soaking up the atmosphere and strolling places like Piazza Navona; have somebody do a drawing of your kids. See St. Peter's but don't knock yourselves out.<BR><BR>THEN pick up a car and drive to Venice via Tuscany; take your time; book rooms in transit--you'll find a place--don't worry...or just take the train. You won't be able to stop in Tuscany but the kids will get a kick out of the train ride and there won't be any driving hassles (which are minimal anyway).<BR><BR>Luxuriate in the endless charms of Venice. Have a nap. Feed a pidgin or six thousand. Perhaps take day trips out of the city by train or tour bus.<BR><BR>RELAX.<BR><BR>THEN get your train to France and along the way you can grow wistful at how much you loved Italy and how you long to return someday (without the kids!).<BR><BR>B.V.

HowardR

Just a thought: These itineraries sound like a script for one of those idiotic Chevy Chase European vacation movies!

Patrick

OK, MarniaK, now I will be what you call rude. It is pure idiocy to think that a whole number of well-traveled posters who tell you that you are attempting too much in too short a time are all wrong. You say that there was nothing constructive about our posts. Sorry, but telling you to reduce the itinerary IS constructive. We now know that what you really wanted to do here was to brag about your brilliant itinerary and you simply wanted everyone to fawn all over you for your great fortune in going to Europe. It didn't happen. Instead you ran into a bunch of kind and caring souls who actually were taking the time to try to help you even though you clearly didn't want any help!!!

CalgirlSusan

That is an excellent plan for &quot;doing&quot; the Vatican, Grinisa. But I bet MarninaK and family could do in in about half an hour on rollerskates just before heading out to Tivoli for a half hour or so.

Anya

You really don't want a car in Rome. I would do it like this:<BR>Day 1,2,3 Rome<BR>Day 4 Take a tour to Tivoli and Ostia Antica<BR>Day 5,6 Take a train to Florence and spend 2 days there. Train takes 1.5 hours. You can take a daytrip to Pisa on second day, but there's not much else there besides the leaning tower.<BR>Day 7,8 Venice<BR>Alternatively you can pick up a car after finishing with Rome. Naples, Pompeii etc doesn't really fit into this plan if you intend to go to France after.

isabel

Well MarinaK, if you are still reading this thread at this point - I still think your itinerary is too full - but not quite as full as some of the others. This forum is definitly known for posters who like to really take a long time and fully experience each place. Nothing wrong with that. But, for example, I totally disagree with Grinisa that you need two and a half hours in St Peter's Basilica. You don't mention the ages of your kids, but just about any age kid would find that way too long. We were there in July and the line to get in was about 5 minutes and we felt we had plenty of time there - about half an hour. Art historians or religious types could certainly enjoy much longer, but it is not sacreligious to go through it in less than an hour. The Vactican Museums would take much longer.<BR><BR>Probably the best advice you've gotten is to drop Naples and points south of Rome. Two nights in Rome (three if you want to do a day trip)would give you a taste. Then I would take the train to Orvieto (about an hour) and rent the car there (driving in Rome is hell). Then you could rather easily see Florence and Venice and a few areas in between in the remaining five days. Try to spend two nights in Venice so you have one uninterruped day. This itinerary is still very fast but will give you a taste of Italy. Good luck.

RAC

MarinaK<BR><BR>Here is a simple, IMHO sensible itinerary:<BR><BR>Day 1:<BR><BR>Arrive in Rome 12:35<BR><BR>Spend next 2-3 hours going through customs, getting baggage, and getting into Rome itself--it's at least 1/2 hour to get to Termini station if you take the shuttle. Rest at hotel. Spend evening by Trevi fountain/Spanish steps.<BR><BR>Day 2:<BR><BR>See the Vatican and St. Peters. After that, go back to hotel and rest in air conditioned room--Rome is BRUTALLY hot during the summer. Go out for a fine meal that evening<BR><BR>Day 3: Visit the Forum, Coliseum, Pantheon, and other sites as you are able. Don't try to do too much--the heat and buzz of Rome can make people very cranky.<BR><BR>Day 4:<BR><BR>Take a train to Florence in the morning. Before doing so, get reservations for L'accademia and Uffizi. See one today, the next tomorrow. Take in il Duomo and other sights along the way. Have some gelato.<BR><BR>Day 5: Do the other major museum, do some shopping, check out the palaces, get some more Gelato.<BR><BR>Day Six: Catch a train to Venice. See San Marco's basilica and square, and take the tour of the Palazzo Ducale. See some of the other museums on Piazza San Marco.<BR><BR>Day 7: Take a Gondola ride. Explore the back streets and canals. Check out some of the other stunning churches. Visit the Accademia museum. <BR><BR>Day 8: Extra day--allocate this between the other three cities, as you see fit. Or spend a day in Milan. Or do a day trip into Siena from Florence. <BR>Day 9: Pick up your car and drive to France.<BR><BR>You're not going to get a full exerience of Italy in 8-9 days. Visit with the intent of going back.

MarinaK

Thank you Anya, Isabel &amp; RAC for the suggestions. Yes, the intention is to get a flavor of the different cities and to return at a later date to those we especially enjoy.

Isobel

I thought the RAC author suggested a great itinerary, especially with children. I have been to Florence, Venice, Rome, Naples, Herculaneum, Sorrento, Amalfi and Ravello.<BR>Italy is extremely hot in summer and can be exhausting. Also their pace of life is so much slower than most of us. The only thing they do fast is driving - crazy drivers.<BR>I think you have enough culture between Rome and Florence, without going to Naples. Because you want to see so much, I wouldnt go to Pompeii and Herculaneum. Spend a half day in Herculaneum - it is a better preserved site and would be more interesting for the children.Because we wanted to see so much, we limited ourselves to a morning in the vatican.<BR>Anyway the best thing to do is take note of other experienced travels in Italy and then MAKE YOUR OWN MIND UP. There is so much to see in Italy that it is impossible to see it in one visit - even with the best of intentions and enthusiasm. I would suggest, especially as you have children, that Venice is a must. A trip down the Grand Canal from the station to St Marks is an experience not to be missed and I think children will enjoy this as a change from walking about cities. Hope this helps.<BR>Isobel

HowardR

Now I'm really confused! I just noticed that MarinaK started another thread yesterday morning--&quot;7 full days in Italy: what would you do?&quot;--in which she seems to have abandoned her previously mentioned itineraries.<BR>Which thread should we be addressing?<BR>

KathyNZ

I had never heard of that word - doable. Rhymes with durable and you'd have to be that to carry on with this discussion.

arkhan

Howard......i loved the Chevy Chase European vacation movies!this itinerary is much better..............lol<BR>